Forum:SH:Fan podcast notability

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Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH:Fan podcast notability

Happy, er, St Patrick's Day eve?! I'm opening a general discussion on fan podcast notability, following the deletion nomination linked here. Whether we consider one particular podcast "notable" or not per current policy, I think it's good to discuss to what extent we'd be okay with expanding Wookieepedia's coverage of fan-related content

Of course, let's take a look at the current notability of fan projects policy. It reads: "Fan-related subjects that receive extensive recognition or official endorsement from Lucasfilm Ltd. or its licensees may be suitable for an article. Since Lucasfilm places a growing emphasis on fans and fan topics, particularly through StarWars.com, not everything Lucasfilm recognizes or covers will be suitable for Wookieepedia."

Additionally, it says: "In general, Star Wars fan websites, organizations, and podcasts are not considered viable topics for Wookieepedia. Fan websites that are listed on the StarWars.com Community page are not therefore automatically deserving of an article. One example of a fan organization with particular relevance to Wookieepedia is the 501st Legion, which inspired the name of the in-universe 501st Legion. Fan websites and organizations may be more appropriate for the Star Wars Fanpedia.

We've got a few obvious choices. We could have separate articles for each podcast. We could also create soft redirects that link to Star Wars Fanpedia.

I don't see any harm in using Wookieepedia as a resource documenting fan podcasts. If we do document them, then we need some kind of limit of what an "ideal" status article should look like. What's too much detail; what could be added? Maybe separate articles for each podcast wouldn't be the best idea.

Alternatively, a [[List of...]] style page might be a very useful resource while also limiting the amount of content we have on fan content. We could vote to create a list of podcasts, and we might further want to vote on what podcasts specifically to add to the list. What do we think? OOM 224 (he/him) 17:22, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

  • I'm not opposed to documenting fan podcasts here, but I do think that we need to have guidelines on what exactly renders one notable just as we do any other fan project. Making an article for every podcast that has a focus on Star Wars would ultimately lead to bloat and some vagueness regarding the extent to which fan projects as a whole are permitted. For example, the podcast currently under TC review is one I don't believe to be notable given the information about it and the extent of recognition it's received. Ultimately I don't believe there's much of a reason to make podcasts distinct from the fan projects notability policy, though narrowing down and refining the fan project's policy is certainly a worthwhile endeavor that would affect fan podcasts. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 17:28, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
  • While I don't feel especially strongly either way on whether or not we should expand coverage of fan projects, if we do opt to cover more podcasts, fanfilms and such then we'll need clear notability requirements for what does and doesn't get an article/list entry. Personally I'd say the absolute minimum would be some form of official acknowledgement of the podcast either via StarWars.com or through an appearance at celebration or similar. Ayrehead02 (talk) 17:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
    • Per my thoughts on the podcast currently under review, I don't believe simply appearing at Celebration renders them notable; the volume of fan projects that appear at Celebration is high and from my perspective it doesn't make it more notable than a single fan just attending Celebration. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 17:38, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
      • It is sensible to adhere to the policy and ensure that only fan organisations which meet certain parameters are featured on Wookiepedia. Yet, I would vehemently disagree with this particular framing used to argue against — specifically that the podcasts that host/broadcast live from the Celebration Fan and/or Podcast Stages are seldom different to individual fans or miscellaneous fan organisations which may be attendance at Celebration conventions. An established due process exists, dedicated to podcasts to gain the ability to host a corresponding stage in a room of the building Star Wars Celebration is held in for a particular timeslot. Applications must be done in advanced. The openings and closures for applications are outlined on the website and the official social media accounts. It is not an activity which any random fan group are able to partake in. The Podcast Stage not being a booth, rather one of the platforms of the convention. The podcasts are listed in an official capacity on the website for that Star Wars Celebration and the mobile app. Official mediums of an event which has "welcomed excellent fan-produced Star Wars podcasts to the show, selected from a large field of applicants." After a final decision, only successful applicants were bestowed a privilege, which includes official acknowledgement and recognition on the Star Wars Celebration website with each podcast being promoted (podcast descriptions were listed on the website of Star Wars Celebration Chicago and PDFs accessible on Star Wars Celebration Orlando's website) as a result. Online and at the convention itself. Otherwise, the website (and PDFs available for download for prior conventions) would have excluded The Podcast Stage from panel scheduling and panel listings. The amount of podcasts selected amount to a few and many are featured again. Hence, out of the high fan presence at Celebration, not all groups are officially endorsed in the aforementioned capacity. Not any fan is provided a stage, an entire room for an audience and relayed data on the official website. So, it would only be reasonable to consider the aforementioned information. If it is decided that individual articles are not warrented (instead folding into the articles for each Celebration, then a re-evaluation of those podcasts that were only listed on StarWars.com once or twice would be consistent. Being folded into StarWars.com's article. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 12:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • To echo some thoughts I'd noted elsewhere—I think soft redirecting some of the 'major' ones like Star Wars Explained could be useful, and the Fanpedia could host the page for it. Or, not entirely opposed to a community-curated and voted on list of them so that they don't have individual pages. However…mostly per Ayre. They absolutely must have some form of official recognition if we go the list or article route, because otherwise it'd be open season for anyone who wanted a page, which... yeah.—spookywillowwtalk 17:31, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Agree with both points of soft redirects and official recognition. Rsand 30 (talk) 17:34, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I don't mind either having a dedicated page for each fan podcast or a list of them. (I'd say it could even benefit the readers to have more external fan-driven resources) Per Thannus though, we need to polish the guidelines and notability for a podcast to have an entire dedicated article. Bonzane10 Sabine Starbird (holonet) 17:36, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
  • While I think making an article for every Star Wars-focused podcast would be out of our scope, I believe it'd be beneficial for Wook to document fan organizations that have established an official partnership with Lucasfilm one way or the other (such as hosting panels at Celebration). Perhaps an ideal compromise would be to cover only their official works (like Celebration presence, StarWars.com articles, or Insider interviews) along with the basic information about the podcast, in a similar fashion to how we approach the real-world person articles. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 02:13, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
    • Another that comes to mind is Star Wars Interviews which includes a table for all their interviews, which might prove useful. But it also, as you said, doesn't mean necessarily that we document the content they make that isn't licensed or recognized, which would be a good compromise. (It also makes these articles statusable, since podcasts by nature could not be status'd if they had to be updated for each fan episode).—spookywillowwtalk 02:25, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
      • To add, Star Wars Interviews whilst being fan-curated, is cited in various officially liscened informational books from various publishers working in tandem with Lucasfilm, which I assumed warrented a dedicated article to the fan website. So there's still criteria being applied. The fan material should at the very least be in proximity to official acknowledgement, recognition or endorsement. The policy might need to reflect past-tense considering the situation that occurred with Rebel Force Radio no longer endorsed by StarWars.com or has a presence at Star Wars Celebration. The podcast added did hold a recognised capacity at at least three of those conventions across two stages, which were relayed on the official Star Wars Celebration website corresponding to each convention. It is known podcasts have to apply for such a privilege and then have to be selected. Wookieepedia does mention sites such as the Star Wars Technical Commentaries despite the infomation there being obsolete and abandoned for years - presumably only due it being Curtis Saxton's fan project. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 08:45, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
        • I'm supposing the reason why there's a lot of debate (and hence a deletion thread started) is because there's not really any clear policy rules other than a blanket no. When explained, there's a lot of logic to be had, but since we have no documented guidelines on what does or doesn't constitute for an article, it more or less opens the door for all/any fan content with no moderation. There's some people that would say that such articles, if we make them, should only document the official recognition and not any extranous information other than whatever official work they've done. An example of similar trimming Wookieepedia does is to leave out most of other irl contributors non-SW portfolios (because those pages would be unmaintainable if we had to update them constantly). In principle, when applied here, that would result in fan podcast pages firmly only being allowed to include their official recognition. This, in turn, can protect Wookieepedia from being required to seem like we're promoting something not-so-great by hosting that content on our site, should anything go sketchy. That's not to say that we shouldn't have said guidelines and some will likely pop up from this debate. Mostly, it's just that creation of such topics prior to the policy amendment is somewhat 'hanging by a thread' under the current notability guidelines coupled with the addition of non-recognized content such as notating fan review of a novelization (TFA) in an episode that had no connection to Celebration or Lucasfilm that show a much larger issue that at minimum needs moderating guidelines (even if those moderating guidelines later state we can document the inagural episode only). Regarding why I'd pointed out Star Wars Interviews—that one at least has a page due to those interviews being used in several officially licensed and published Star Wars books directly.—spookywillowwtalk 10:34, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
        • As it concerns all of what is aforementioned, I agree with the general sentiments conveyed. The article has been revised to reflect a limit on extraneous information not encompassed under the Star Wars Celebration presence, which I would wish to delve into: Within the podcast category (aside from official podcasts hosted on Lucas Online-maintained websites), there is a fan-website that was only documented on StarWars.com once. There are many more which do not have an article as documented in Star Wars Insider. I'd consider this matter seperate from individual fan-created projects beyond Wookieepedia, such as YouTube content and fan films. In the strict realm of fan organisation, such as podcasts, would the selection of a few podcasts which are sifted from a large field of applicants to not only be promoted at the Star Wars Celebration conventions themselves—a series of Lucasfilm managed and administered events—but to be denoted as the best (via the Star Wars Celebration official Twitter account) and excellent fan-produced podcasts (via multiple pages on the Star Wars Celebration website, corresponding to that year's convention) with their presence relayed on official channels such as the official website. The podcasts that are selected in advanced via a due process, entailing application and a final decision, having descriptions on said website. Panel schedulings and panel lists assert this presence in an official capacity. It's evidently official recognition and acknowledgement only obtained via a formal request and solicitation process. That in of itself not necessarily being sufficient, since candidates are chosen on numerous undisclosed factors (as relayed on the Podcast Stage Application page on the Star Wars Celebration website adhead of fhe corresponding convention's opening) and the successful applicants are chosen by a final decision, being notified thereafter. A process managed by a convention that is endorsed by Lucasfilm. The concerns of this artcle setting a bad precedent such as it "being open-season for anyone who wanted a page" are addressed by my elaboration and therefore there is no danger of a slippery slope. The podcast being officially recognised in some manner was among my first questions and obviously the podcast's proclamation wasn't taken at face-value. The relevant official sources have been retrieved and are displayed on the article. The article is primarily pertainant to Star Wars Celebration. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 23:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
        • While the selection process seems solid—my point is rather that none of that is documented in policy for podcasts at all. So if we had policy stating that all Celebration podcasts picked in such a manner counted, then yes, there would be no slope (and we should therefore add that). However, as it is, it falls under the banner of 'not under policy'—which means that we need to add guidelines first and preferably immediately, so that other pages that don't meet the same requirements get made with a similar claim of 'well, this other page got made and it's not covered by policy, so I'm fine to.' It is however, always bad precedent to not curate some guidelines first, because currently, the reason it's a topic for debate is the lack of them.—spookywillowwtalk 23:15, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
        • Which in simpler terms means—thanks for removing the extraneous information. However, not everyone would be so reasonable, so if this is the route taken, it has to be put into policy that we don't document such extra information (potentially to infinite amounts). If challenged and someone else decided to document every aspect of their fanwork (even the non-recognized parts) we could currently not tell them to remove it. So it's great that you did so willingly, but nevertheless doesn't solve that it's not documented for site practices.—spookywillowwtalk 23:25, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
        • Then I would agree, the nebulous guidelines and principles require refinement and solidification. Not only for transparency, however also for enforcement. I agree that there should be a limit to what information can be hosted and what information cannot be hosted. I did review the other articles dedicated the three other fan podcast's and in particular there was an enforced removal for extraneous information on RebelForceRadio's article. So there is some form of documented precedent. If wojld merely require codification, which can apply to the article with the podcast under review and the few like it. Though, for what's it is worth, I will argue that potentially refined guidelines should account for the podcasts which have essentially entered an official association with Lucasfilm for a official convention sponsored, managed and administered by them. That is what the sources reflect, all retrieved from the online home for official Star Wars Celebration information and promotion other than StarWars.com. Since what this amounts to is hosting an official platform at Star Wars Celebration in an official capacity (with endorsement on the website), I'd also this arrangement holds equal weight to being featured on StarWars.com omce or twice. Especially as it concerns acknowledgement, endorsement amd recognition in an official capacity via a maintained selection process. The privilege may be revoked - as was the case with RebelForceRadio, whom no longer have such a presence at Star Wars Celebration, tracking with StarWars.com severing ties with them. Some podcasts listed have been featured on StarWars.com and were among the first to host such as Coffee With Kenobi. This is definitely a blindspot which should be covered and I agree that the policy should be modified to explicitly address it. Somenhave argued for an idealistic implementation. I don't believe that is pragmatic or necessary. The precedent set is Wookiepedia encompassing its scope slightly to documenting a few more fan groups which themselves were granted an official privilege for association with Lucasfilm for its official convention, monitored by them. The podcast under review does not necessary carry as much weight as the R2 Builders Club or 501st Legion, however it is facet nonetheless. Whether it's StarWars.com or Star Wars Celebration - recurring at that. I only mention this to counter the framing of the nomination's misleading reasoning both in TC and here. There is a discernable delineation to be made between any individual fan or miscellaneous fan organisation who may attend Star Wars Celebration without this association and these fan podcasts which do carry that recognition and endorsement. The sources in the article easily corroborate this stance, in my view. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 23:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
        • Regarding reason why people jumped on the deletion thread so fast (which isn't necessarily your fault) was because the sourcing wasn't present at the time of the deletion nomination—and people by default often look at the current version of the page to determine whether it should be kept. The Celebration content had been only self-sourced to the group themselves at the time, so when people opened the thread to check, that's what they saw. It's just worth noting though that a page such as this may not have had to undergo such a messy run through the mud if the guidelines for what does and doesn't count, and what groups do and don't qualify (which could very well include all Celebration affiliates) was done first, instead of in spite of current precedent. Perhaps less about what the current version of the page is, which is much improved from the version that was sent to TC (which is what people looked at), but more that the Trash compactor will always look at what is present when we're passing judgement and not what is missing or yet-to-be-proven. That's not to say the fan policy doesn't need a lot of updates (it does, it's ancient); but doing so first would have likely prevented most of this. Almost anyone would agree there's a discernable difference between no recognition and some (as this one has); but people who put up the thread can't necessarily be blamed for their reasoning either, since it's always the page-maker's burden to have it solid enough not to be challenged (often, by sources such as the ones that are now on the page, but were not before).—spookywillowwtalk 00:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
          • Agreed, and I acknowledge that. Especially concerning the article itself as it concerns to its state. That was due to problems on my part, though I've attempted to make ammendments, though not add images and further extra information in case it is decided to be withdrawn. Only addressing matters and those who may still disagree, since it's already gone this far. No intent to cast stones. Just outlining my rationale behind deciding to go on this endeavour as it concerns officiality and all. Thanks. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 08:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
          • Regarding Star Wars Interviews, I'm not even done with listing all interview, to be honest (because I need to go back and forth between Facebook and the archive of the website to be sure I don't miss publications... and I haven't found the time to go back to it yet), but that list in essence isn't necessary, it's main use is for me to keep track of all of it while I was working on the important task: listing the interviews on the page of each interviews. The list is just there to help indexing, and frankly, it could be removed. Now for SWTC, Bhatoa, you made a good case for us to review that page and maybe TC it. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 10:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Given that Wookieepedia is basically the resource for Star Wars, having something somewhere would be beneficial. Especially given that some of them actually have cast, crew, and creators involved with them and have had them on their shows many times. I also agree with Bonzane in saying that it could benefit readers as well, they bring a valid point to the table. —SnowedLightning (they/she) 02:15, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • The Internet is a constantly changing place. There's a huge reason why we're so big on backup archival links. When Star Wars culture and information (think creator interviews!) consistently interweave through dedicated resources created and maintained by fans (sound familiar? hint, hint, this website?) then it is absolutely imperative from a journalist/historian/wiki writer's perspective to document the facts, in the here and now.

    If we, striving to create the highest quality and comprehensive, catch-all resource on all Star Wars information, on the screens and behind-the-scenes, miss out on documenting these podcasts then it is very likely that no one will. Most of us only became wiki editors because we see a resource already established right here, and there's a group of users doing their best to make it better and fill in the gaps. This is one of them.

    I am very strongly in favour of us taking a step back from our almost ingrained attitude of refusing all things "fan-made" and "unofficial" when podcasts are a unique hub of information that is extremely relevant to the Star Wars fandom. It's better to have articles on our side where we can strive to fulfill our quality standards and inspire and encourage more folks to contribute to making our real-world coverage work. People will be looking for this information, especially if/when podcasts eventually change hands or simply cease to operate.

    If we just "out-source" the realm of fan material to Fanpedia, let's face it; it's gonna be forgotten about. Counterpoint: "if you're so passionate about this, why don't you go and edit it there or have the stuff on a personal workbench page? This isn't our mission or purpose." Answer: "Wookieepedia is Wookieepedia; there's no other place like it." As editors of Wookieepedia, I'd like to ask everyone: doesn't it feel different to edit on Wookieepedia? We've got the backing of the community, even if it's just seeing our own edits pop up on the Special:RecentChanges log. It feels like we're doing something quite meaningful. It's our home. To relegate content to other wikis is inefficient and, I would argue, rather irresponsible.

    We have the sourcing, quality, and community to pull this off, and Wookieepedia has built up direct connections to many of the podcasts, and likewise these podcasts have direct connections with creators. Here is an opportunity to expand Wookieepedia, at no cost to ourselves. Let those who are willing to try it out do it. Maybe even the most skeptical of users would end up contributing to expanding the coverage too. Now's our time; we should claim it. OOM 224 (he/him) 02:46, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I think a list of fan podcasts would be very beneficial. My only major concern, after we determine guidelines on which podcasts get included in the list, is that inclusion in the list can also be seen as promotion. What happens when a podcast makes continued harmful comments toward marginalized communities? Will we have a mechanism in place to remove them from the list? Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 03:23, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Thinking about it some more, one of the trickiest bits of writing up film nominations is combing the web for the various interviews and podcasts and such an actor might have done in which they talk about the role. These can already be listed on an actors individual page, although they rarely are and I'm no realising even I rarely add them when I find them. If we could include some sort of list of Star Wars relevent episodes, either on individual pages or in collapsed form on a list page, then having a central repository or additional place for them to appear in whatlinkshere would certainly improve chances of them getting found. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • This is all good sentiment, but I'm going to have to be the voice of dissent. No, we cannot cover EVERYTHING related to Star Wars. The core of what Wookieepedia is can be resumed to covering the Star Wars universe (with an in-universe POV) and how it came to be (with an out-of-universe POV). That's it. Everything we do, even LEGO and parodies (they are reflection, hence extension, of the SW universe) is just that. We need to have limits, otherwise you dilute the end goal of Wookieepedia into something that cannot be sustained on the level of quality that we hope to achieve, simply because some of the things we don't cover would just be contradictory to the way we do things (I'm not just talking about podcasts, it's a general statement). There is an infinity of things we don't cover and should not cover: game statistics, merchandising, fanon, original works, fan in general, and that's just the most obvious. Quality requires focus. Stirring Wookieepedia into conflicting direction will not be a step for progress.

    Now, in nature, a podcast is a document, and this aspect hasn't been touch at all by anyone here yet... We only provides articles to official document, and sometimes more (Star Wars Interviews, cited above is a good example, but still in a kind of not well defined area... because it is technically a loophole that support that articles should be granted to any document listed in a bibliography or listed in an official capacity in an official book, and that does in fact open the door to maybe hundreds potential articles we might not want to host, but that's a discussion for another day...). But does it matters if we don't have a page for it? NO. We use thousands of web documentation from hundred of sources, we don't need articles for them. What we need is properly indexing the relevant content into the relevant articles. Which is exactly why I made absolutly sure that the reform of the External links section of the Layou Guide allows for such listing. So, no, relevant content from podcast is not pushed asides, it's listed exactly where it is needed and nothing more. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 10:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
    • It would be a good development to define this area. I agree that pragmatically, Wookiepedia cannot and should not document everything under the sun, however to place this article into perspective, the only precedent which editors must decide on, is whether podcasts that have been specifically selected, by a due process, to be featured at Star Wars Celebration warrent individual articles. Considering these podcasts have been sifted from a large field of applicants to be bestowed the privilege of official acknowledgement and recognition at Star Wars Celebration, an event managed and administered by Lucasfilm, I would say an argument can be made for such fan organisations. Evidently, not all podcasts are successful in applying for Star Wars Celebration and those that are, have their designated panels featured in official panel scheduling lists relayed on the mobile app and website. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 12:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I have not been able to fully read everything on the page but I'm going to get my opinion out and then maybe respond to some others as I read: Many game mechanics, LEGO, and merchandise, which are all super duper uber official, escape our scope. We leave all of those in the hands of other wikis. I think this should remain in the scope of the fan wiki and out of our's. I simply do not think Celebration meets the notablity we require, especially when you think of all the fan panels we ignore that require just as much approval process as the podcasts. We can help facilitate people in finding info on these podcasts though. I support a list on the Celebration page of active participates and a link to their fan wiki page. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 00:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
    • This would be also sufficient in my opinion. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 08:46, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
      • I've embarked on viewing a few articles on the proposed redirect site, and I'll be brutally honest with my assessment: The wiki appears substantially unregulated and I wouldn't even advocate redirecting there unless there is a general improvement. I believe another asserted that if the burden is shifted somewhere else, it will be forgotten about, be of a poorer quality and might not even be followed up on. As it concerns the examples given above. Game mechanics are covered under a different policy - they are not treated as canonical unless more sources explicitly references it in some manner. So not exactly equivalent, though I understand the point being substantiated. Unless I misunderstand, many articles still document game mechanics where appropriate. *Complete* articles dedicated to the various Star Wars games, which have been released, do this as a means of actually formimg a well-executed comprehensive repository of information on said games. Merchandise, which encompasses LEGO (the products, not media), is documented on this encyclopedia on various articles in various capacities. The 187th Legion for both continuities is a prime instance of this. Sure there's a tenuous indirect reference to the unit by Leland Chee, yet merchandise-related sources are the dominant reference. The LEGO minifigs was *the infobox image* for the canonical article for some time. Kelloggs' merchandise elements have individual articles, such as what appear in commercials, toys and etc. Instead of being folded/merged into a large article on Kelloggs as a licensor. Various class and specialisation of soilder are represented by merchandise images in the infobox. All usually documented where appropriate. The article under TC review is pertainant and not bloated. It focusing primarily on documenting what the subject is and the official capacity the subject has been recognised in, with the official sources (unless I am under the false the Star Wars Celebration website isn't an official source akin to StarWars.com and Star Wars Insider) outlined and listed to substantiate. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 08:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
        • If the article quality on another wiki is subpar, that's a golden opportunity for a dedicated editor to make a substantial difference there. If you want to create podcast-related articles of decent quality, why would you be willing to put the time in if the article is on Wookieepedia but not if it's on a wiki where it more closely aligns with their mission? Asithol (talk) 09:21, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
          • I wasn't aware of the proposed wiki's existence until this discussion. I created an article on Wookieepedia which should meet the notability requirements per my reasoning throughout this thread (which hasn't been refuted completely). Considering the fact that the fan organisation in question has entered an official association with Lucasfilm Ltd on several substantiated occasions for their convention event, sponsored, administered and managed by them; I do not understand why the article is not already aligned with Wookieepedia's policy, in addition to being encompassed by its mission. Otherwise, the few fan organisations whom have entered similar official association with Lucasfilm, such as via StarWars.com, must not align with this mission, as you define it. Your vote reasoning asserted that Wookieepedia exists to document licensed material without any ammendments or clarification, yet this already is not entirely reflective of all the material Wookieepedia encompasses and therefore hosts. Fan organisations which have entered official association with Lucasfilm via different means, such as StarWars.com are covered by this wiki. Wookieepedia is essentially the definitive online encyclopedia for the Star Wars mythos, including the most pertinent aspects surrounding it - this includes a limited documentation of fan organisations which may have had or continue to maintain an association with Lucasfilm in an official capacity, which has a long precedent on Wookieepedia. This isn't introducing a random Star Wars YouTube content creator or fan film. So, I'd dismiss that framing. The Disney Wiki to my understanding, actually has maintained articles on Star Wars characters for some time. Why do all Wookieepedians choose to not make a difference there—because this online encyclopedia is the definitive one of its subject matter (Star Wars) and individuals understandably are drawn to contribute here as a result. Anyhow - I was not disparaging the proposed wiki. Merely outlining some observations on it. It's not my main point. Perhaps you can aid in my understanding on why an official association with Lucasfilm which results in a unique privilege, acknowledgement, recognition and endorsement on a Lucasfilm-run web address (akin to StarWars.com) for an entirely Lucasfilm-administered convention, does not meet the notability requirements policy. Thank you. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 18:59, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Continuing on, my point is that these podcasts still enter an official association with Lucasfilm which ultimately results in acknowledgement, recognition and endorsement for their official convention event. A bestowed privilege which is maintained via an application process and may be revoked as seen with Rebel Force Radio. No longer having an official association with Lucasfilm for StarWars.com or Star Wars Celebration. Concerning that podcast and the two others like it, which currently have dedicated articles. If opposing the article Tarkin's Top Shelf—despite the official capacity they have repeatedly acquired from Lucasfilm for Star Wars (which was disputed and now I believe is refuted - there is a discernable delineation between any miscellaneous fan organisation or individual random fan(s) which happen to attend the conventions and these select podcasts specifically chosen to enter a official capacity)—is warrented, then what of the aforementioned articles of those three podcasts. They were mentioned on StarWars.com on a few occasions. Is that enough notability? Or are official capacities at Star Wars Celebration ranked lesser than StarWars.com articles? Commander Bhatoa (talk) 08:22, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Addressing the Fan Stage at Star Wars Celebration, if I recall, the majority of the same podcasts that host the Podcast Stage also host the Fan Stage. These definitely don't number in the hundreds of fan resources as mentioned elsewhere. This is not open-season for any random fan group ti create an article. We can dismiss those fears - that isn't what this is occurring at all. Why don't a few fan organisations as specifically selected by Lucasfilm to host for their convention event, meet the notability requirements? Evidently, a fan resource being cited in a few officially licensed books for its interviews meets them. Or evidently a few authors whom have written for officially licensed Star Wars material, contributing in other fan-produced published books meets them. In that regard, there's official authors whom frequent on some of these podcasts or whom actually aid in hosting them. I agree - this alone would not actually warrent documentation to this extent of fan podcasts in the same manner as Star Wars Interviews or the Sequart books. Yet, these podcasts have been acknowledged, recognised and endorsed on an official capacity. Some recurring at that. Just for Star Wars Celebration and not Star Wars Insider or StarWars.com. Yet, not dissimilar to being recognised and endorsed on StarWars.com, no? Again, it is their convention event—specifically maintained, administered and managed by them. It is not SDCC or any other convention run by others and therefore outside of the province of Lucasfilm proper. It seems erroneous to dismiss this under-documented facet of Star Wars culture, nkt withstanding the fact that it intersects on an official level. Much of Star Wars Celebration-pertainant aspects is a blindspot for Wookiepedia. I've only just realised this in the past few days. I'd vehemently argue to at least document these recognised and endorsed fan organisations akin to others that have been recognised and promoted - just merely in a different way. Commander Bhatoa (talk) 08:22, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Hey all, I'll share my own thoughts on this later, but Chris Kempshall has asked me to share this comment he made, regarding fan podcasts and Wookieepedia. The message can also be found on our Discord, in the social channel.
"So I’m just briefly materialising in here (as I’m hoping this is the best place for it) and then I’m going to puff of smoke away again.
I’m aware there’s a vote going on at the moment about the ‘Tarkin’s Top Shelf’ page on the Wook at the moment. Whilst I’ve been a guest a few times (and probably will be again) the point I’m going to make is me wearing my historian hat rather than my Star Wars author one.
Studying Star Wars is a lot of fun but can also be hard. I know there are people working on things to do with fan culture etc. Being able to find pages that detail things like podcasts who have been part of Celebrations etc is going to help them a lot. Similarly they’ve had guests on talking about things that probably end up being quoted on Wook pages. But researchers won’t just want to know the words they said. They’ll want to know about where they said it and why they were there.
The Wook is a great resource for historians, and researchers of all kinds. I heartily encourage all of you who are voting to help facilitate that!" - Chris Kempshall
Supreme Emperor Holocomm 06:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)