Forum:CT:Overhauling the Real-World Media Layout Guide

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Overhauling the Real-World Media Layout Guide
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The result of the debate was support all proposed changes. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 21:31, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Long story short, we've been due an overhaul of our OOU Layout Guide's section on media; it doesn't accurately reflect how many articles are structured, and there are some expansions and tweaks needed. This came up a few weeks or months back, and we developed a rough ordering, and over the last week I've expanded that out into a fully rewritten section. This is also a preliminary step to fully enabling C4-DE to properly process and cleanup OOU articles.

So, without further ado, I've broken this up into a subvote for each bullet point that's added or changed; just as a formatting note, the proposed text will replace any section names enclosed in "quotations" with bolded text as is the current practice in the LG; they're in quotes for now as the changed text uses bolded instead. Many thanks to Nano, Spooky, Imp, and Dani, as well as anyone else who's contributed to the discussions over the past few weeks.

Vote #1: Miscellaneous

Some minor wording tweaks:

Renaming the entire section to "Real-World Media Articles", to match the people section and the category names, and to include cancelled works
Adding the following bolded segment to the header line: "These sections, with the exception of the "Credits" and "Appearances" section, may be further subdivided if necessary."
Adding the following to the end of the Appearances line: "that appeared or were mentioned in the work"
Replacing the duplicate "each section may be subdivided" text at the bottom of the block with "For each of the above sections, if no applicable information is available, the section need not be included."

Support

  1. As proposer. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:21, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 09:43, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:31, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  13. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #2: Publisher's Summary

Adding a new bullet point at the start of the list with the following text:

If the article is about an individual work that has a publisher's summary, then it should be included in sourced section entitled "Publisher's summary". Similarly, television media should include the official description text from the relevant streaming series or platform in an "Official description" section.

Support

  1. Use of "Official Description" has been a long-standing practice, but one that's technically in violate of the LG. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:09, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 07:11, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. I think we should be listing a lot more than just one. But it'll need to be a longer conversation about how we go about that. So for now. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:32, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. To be honest, I've never found the inclusion of publisher summaries particularly helpful and I particularly disagree that precedent should be granted to the American version of websites. What if the original work isn't American? What if there exists a new, updated publisher's summary from another country's publisher and it is more informative than the American publisher's version? (sorry Cade :P) OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Vote #2.5: Publisher's Summary Addendum

Splitting these points off from the Official Description tweak, these will go after the Publisher's summary bullet point.

  • If the promotional summary on the back cover of the work differs from the official publisher's summary, it should also be documented in this section, and each summary should be prefaced by their source.
  • If the publisher's summary differs between various websites, precedence should be granted to the website of the work's official publisher over other sources, and the American version of websites over other versions.
  • If the official summary or description changes over the period before a work's release, only the latest summary should be documented. Any major changes that remove or change details not present in the final release of a product should be covered in the "Release and reception" section.

Support

  1. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 23:45, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. CometSmudge (talk) 03:48, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 07:10, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Imperators II(Talk) 07:52, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 09:44, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  8. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  9. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. See my above vote. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:38, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. OOM 224 01:50, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Vote #3: Opening Crawl

Moving Opening crawl up to its own section, above the Plot Summary section, with the following text as a bullet point:

If the work includes an opening crawl, it should be listed in an "Opening crawl" section using {{Opening crawl}}. If different versions or editions of the work have different opening crawls, they should also be included here.

Support

  1. Like above; long-standing practice that's worth codifying. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:09, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 07:10, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:38, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  13. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #4: Contents

Overhauling the Plot Summary bullet point with the following new text and subpoints:

  1. Articles should have either a "Plot summary" or "Contents" section, depending on the following rules:
    • Individual narrative works should have a "Plot summary" section that summarizes the plot of the work, written in-universe and in the present tense.
    • Individual works that are presented as in-universe documents or media, such as Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force and the HoloNet News website, should summarize the work in a "Contents" section.
    • If the article is about an unabridged audiobook or scriptbook, the plot summary should use {{Plot-link}} directing to the original work's article.
    • Articles on groupings of narrative works, such as series and story arcs, should also summarize the plot of those works in a "Plot summary" section, but in a more condensed fashion.
    • Non-narrative media that collects other material, such as magazine issues, comic anthologies, book collections, and trade paperbacks should detail the collected media in a "Contents" section.
    • For all other non-narrative works, the "Contents" section should summarize the contents of the media.

Support

  1. For non-narrative works, we typically do a Contents section, but again, it's not been formally codified. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:11, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Plot summaries are susceptible to play-by-play text that sometimes seem longer than the actual contents themselves, so yeah, if it's a group of narrative work, let's keep them concise please lol OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #5: Gameplay

Minor tweak to allow this section to be used for all game types:

"Gameplay" is a section reserved for games such as video games, board games, and card games.

Support

  1. Per suggestion by Dani/Imp. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. LET'S GOOOO Imperators II(Talk) 21:11, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:24, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. I use the Epic Action on my Energy Conversion Lab to play The Ghost. It enters with Ambush, so I unexhaust it and then exhaust it to attack your Lurking TIE Phantom. And I'll remove The Ghost's shield token. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:43, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #6: Release and Reception

Renaming the "Reception" section to "Releaese and reception", removing the "as well as information on the work's publication and release" text from the "Development" bullet point and updating the "Reception" bullet to the following text. In addtion, the "Reception" section of the Musical Theme Articles LG block would also be renamed to match.

"Release and reception" discusses the work's publication and release, as well as awards won, sales performance, and ratings information. Response, reaction, and reception to the work by Lucasfilm Ltd. and its employees, including creators who participated in the project's creation, should be included in this section. However, fan reviews and opinions should only be discussed in relation to Star Wars creators' commentary of their contents. Home video releases of the work should also be covered in this section. If no such information is available, this section need not be included.

Support

  1. Release and reception are best covered simultaneously, as OOM has so eloquently done on Star Wars: The Acolyte; it's the best way to present the information with the least amount of repetition, and release info doesn't really belong in Development. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:12, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:25, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. poggers OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. OOM said it best. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:46, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 17:05, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  13. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #7: Continuity

Moving Continuity down between Reception and Legacy, to keep related sections together, and adding the following:

"Continuity" discusses past continuity used/referenced/retconned by the work, continuity errors, and significant continuity created by the work that has been later used/referenced/retconned. This section should also cover factual errors in the work that are about real-world information.

Support

  1. Self-explanatory. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:12, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:25, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. I've noticed that this section gets abused with really frivolous stuff like typos (of non–Star Wars terms!) sometimes, especially on older articles. OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. There's something about this section that makes me uneasy. But w/e. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:49, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #8: Adaptations

A new section, between Continuity and Legacy, with the following text; additionally, the minor tweak to the Legacy bullet point:

"Adaptations and tie-in media " discusses adaptations of the media, such as novelizations, comics and video game adaptations and other tie-in media, such as merchandising and accompanying publishing programs.
"Legacy" is a section that discusses the impact of the work on later Star Wars media that are not already covered in the above "Adaptations and tie-in media" section and, if applicable, broader popular culture. If no such information is available, this section need not be included.

Support

  1. Adaptations have never really had an established place to be documented, as they don't really belong in Legacy—a number of prequel adaptations came out before the movies themselves—and they don't really belong in Release either, as they can come out years later. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. YAAAAYYYY Imperators II(Talk) 21:13, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:28, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. fabulous OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:50, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #9: Media

Expanding the Media section and cleaning up the wording, and adding several gallery options that are currently used but not technically permitted right now:

"Media" is a section whose subsections vary depending on the type of media.
  • Articles on comic series should include an "Issues" subsection and make use of {{Prettytable}} to document issues, release dates, story arcs and collections, as illustrated here.
  • For television series, a "Seasons" subsection should make use of {{Prettytable}} to document information such as the air dates and number of episodes for each season, as illustrated here.
  • For individual television seasons, an "Episodes" subsection should make use of {{Prettytable}} to display the title, air date, episode number, production number, and an image from the episode if applicable, as illustrated here.
  • Articles on novels, reference books and other media with ISBN numbers should list the various editions of the work in a subsection entitled "Editions", as a bulleted list with ISBN numbers, publisher and publication dates.
  • Articles on individual works that have had multiple covers released should include a Cover gallery subsection with all available covers, including the infobox image and any unlettered or pre-release versions, in a gallery with appropriate captions.
  • Works such as card games and board games should include all applicable images of box and packaging art, as well as any official images of the contents and any accessories, in a "Content gallery" subsection.
  • Feature films and television media should list all available promotional posters in a "Poster gallery" subsection. Additionally, feature films should include a "Cover gallery" section for all home video releases of that film, with links to relevant articles as the captions if such articles exist.

Support

  1. A lot of this is common practice nowadays that's just been never codified. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:28, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. I love cover and poster galleries OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 17:14, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 15:55, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #10: Collections

Moving the Collections section up to immediately after the Media section, as it fits better with how we use the Issues subsections for overarching series.

Support

  1. I think the original rationale for Collections' current placement was their similarity to Sources, but that's honestly inaccurate, and we already include mentions/covers of collections in the various Media subsections. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:29, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. We gotta start listing DVDs here imo. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:56, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 17:05, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #10.5: Collections as a Media Subsection

Formatting vote for the successful outcome of the above vote on Collections placement; if this vote passes, the "Collections" bullet point will be changed to a second-level bullet point at the end of the Media subpoints. This is a plurality vote per Forum:CT:CON plurality clauses (subvotes), and will have no effect if the above vote fails.

Support

  1. A last minute thought that struck me as I was writing out my vote from above, but honestly, I think it works best. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:57, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 21:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 21:17, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. CometSmudge (talk) 21:29, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. OOM 224 23:34, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 09:44, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:57, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. —spookywillowwtalk 17:40, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. — Commandant Bhatoa (talk) 20:35, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Lewisr (talk) 06:00, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
  13. Booply (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

  • Concept art galleries in the Development section is something that came up, but I want to hear from Fred before we do anything with that. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 20:04, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  • Relating to vote 9. Some of the early audio productions like The Story of Star Wars and Star Wars (book-and-record) don't have ISBNs but do still have editions. I don't know if there is a different phrasing that would include these. or if they can just be some outliers to the policy. — ThePedantry (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)