Forum:CT:YouTube Shorts & Reposts in Sources

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:YouTube Shorts & Reposts in Sources
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The result of the debate was support votes 1-4, no consensus on vote 5; support options 1 for subvotes 4.1 & 4.2. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 00:22, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Closing out this busy January with one more CT, this is something that's bothered me for a bit and was discussed at length yesterday in Discord. Namely, in the last few years, the Star Wars YouTube channel has been posting "videos" using the YouTube Shorts feature that are just minute-long snippets of various shows and films hosted on Disney Plus, almost always in portrait mode, and occasionally with some closed captions embedded in the video as flavor text.

To me, these are essentially advertisements, and documenting them in the Sources sections of our articles is unnecessary bloat for both readers and editors. The vast majority of them are just posted with "<Series X> now streaming on Disney+" in an attempt to game the YouTube algorithm and direct people to watch the shows well after their release date. In the past year or so we've made efforts to streamline our Appearances and Sources for readability purposes, and I think that excluding these from Sources under the conditions defined in each vote goes a good way towards that.

I also have a few long-standing "this is common practice but let's codify it" notes, like whether to list the YouTube video vs. the specialized citation template. As part of this, I will also be working to augment all of the templates in Category:Web series citation templates to display the relevant YouTube link. For the reposts, they have been moved over to Wookieepedia:Sources/Web/Repost, but this is in no way a permanent nor static list and is subject to review and change.

Vote #1: YouTube Listing vs. Citation Template

This vote is to add a bullet point to the "Appearances" section of Wookieepedia:Layout Guide/In-universe:

Episodes of web series that have a dedicated citation template, such as Star Wars Roll Out and {{RollOut}}, should list the episodes using the dedicated citation template, and should not relist the YouTube citation in Appearances, Sources or External Links.

Support

  1. Long-standing precedent. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 22:58, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:34, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 13:58, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:38, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. Imperators II(Talk) 13:27, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. CometSmudge (talk) 17:16, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Wok142 (talk) 18:27, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #2: Listing on Media Articles

This adds the following bullet point to the External Links section of Wookieepedia:Layout Guide/Out-of-universe:

For articles on episodes of web series that premiered on YouTube, the article should list the original YouTube video in the External Links section using the appropriate YouTube citation template for the channel that posted the video.

Support

  1. Long-standing precedent. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. E-z vote NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 22:58, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. —spookywillowwtalk 00:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:34, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 13:58, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:38, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. ThePedantry (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. Imperators II(Talk) 13:27, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Wok142 (talk) 18:28, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #3: Full-Length Reposting

This vote is to add the following as a bullet point to the "General" subheader of the Sources section on Wookieepedia:Layout Guide/In-universe, underneath the Reprints point.

For original television episodes or other video media that feature an article's topic, any YouTube videos that repost the entirety of the original work with no modification after its original release should not be listed in that article's Sources or External Links section.

Support

  1. Common sense precedent that we've largely adhered to. There aren't many full-episode reposts out there, but there are a few like Rebuild the Galaxy and YJA. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. There's like four livestreams that host maybe 8 hours+ of just back to back YJA episodes. So if something is mentioned in one ep, then it ends up listing four, full-length, 100% unaltered livestreams. Unless altered, seems a 1:1 duplicative of listing the episodes themselves in Apps.—spookywillowwtalk 00:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:45, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Misunderstood the vote. Full episode repostings should not be listed in IU articles. But definitely for the Media itself. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 13:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. Lewisr (talk) 18:00, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:38, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. Imperators II(Talk) 13:28, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
  11. CometSmudge (talk) 17:13, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
  12. Wok142 (talk) 18:28, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

I would prefer to list them to let readers know they can watch them without a subscription. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 22:59, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
Rsand 30 (talk) 00:34, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Vote #4: YouTube Shorts/Etc on IU Articles

This vote is to add the following as a bullet point to the "General" subheader of the Sources section on Wookieepedia:Layout Guide/In-universe, underneath the point from vote #3.

YouTube Shorts and videos posted on sites such as StarWars.com that solely repost portions of a television episode or film featuring the article's topic need not be listed in its Sources as well, provided that:
  • The original work is already listed in an article's Appearances section
  • The video was released after the original work or, in the case of television episodes and films, <result of vote 4.1>
  • No modification was made to the original video content <result of vote 4.2>

Support

  1. I think this is a good starting point for this sort of thing; these videos in particular are redundant to the actual media and are the video equivalent of reprints—which we have already moved to consolidate with {{Reprint}}—but of even less value to the reader. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Only because unmodified and ones that are solely unmodified clips without other content; with this, still permits listing of anything like movie clips being shown in Dispatches or This Weeks, and solely excludes like... numerous clips of prequel movies released nowdays.—spookywillowwtalk 00:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Totally agree with Cade point bellow. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:38, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. ThePedantry (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  7. Imperators II(Talk) 13:30, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
  8. CometSmudge (talk) 17:15, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
  9. Wok142 (talk) 18:29, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. I prefer to list them, but understand other's don't. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 23:00, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. Per Dani, I understand how these can bloat the Sources section, but I feel like they are already excessive to the average reader, who also isn't going to care about a bunch of {{Po}}s from Helmet Collection or obscure StarWars.com articles. I don't think shorts should be singled out as opposed to other content. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:34, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
    • These are advertisements, plain and simple. It's the equivalent of asking to list every single TikTok or Instagram reel that the official accounts put it, and that's just not feasible nor helpful to anyone. We shouldn't treat these differently just because they happen to also be posted on YouTube. They're not even classified as normal videos under the hood by YouTube. In fact I’m pretty sure they are cross posted to Instagram and TikTok and Facebook. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 00:57, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

Vote #4.1: Film/Episode Limit

Plurality vote to determine the threshold for the above vote, since there's some debate:

  1. after the end of the promotional campaign surrounding its initial release
  2. more than one month after the original work
  3. more than two months after the original work

Option 1

  1. Simplest option, common sense can tell us when it's ended. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. One big problem, as noted in Discord, is that something may be posted two weeks and one day (or four weeks and one day if option 3) after media is released. Is something released two weeks after vs. two weeks and one day inherently any different, if released as part of a media's promotional campaign? It seems weird to arbitrarily choose to chop off the back end of a show's formal promotional campaign, if it is indeed still going and labeled as such in the video description, but yet include things posted mere days, or even hours, before.—spookywillowwtalk 00:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
    • As was also pointed out in discord, a clip from Rebels a week ago is structured the same as a recent Skeleton Crew clip. How are we to determine the Rebels promotional campaign is over? NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 03:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
      • Well, for one thing, the show ended seven years ago. If one views the Web Masterlist or the #star-wars-news channel in Discord, there is a very clear pattern of drop-off in promotional materials in the weeks following the finale of a television season. The promotion length can vary depending on whether they have something else in the pipeline, so to set a hard deadline does certain shows a disservice. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 03:29, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
        • To counter above since this was in reply to the vote comment: even now, both vote options are... two and four weeks, respectively. And even with The Acolyte,it continued to release new and unique BTS material as part of its promotional campaign nearly up to month after the final air date, with clips and the like posted both before and after it. I still would never personally justify a requirement intentionally requiring the non-inclusion of promotional material released while new and unique BTS content is being released simultaneously to promote the show. Unless the cutoff was much longer than proposed here, both two and four weeks would chop the back end of a good number of modern promotional campaigns, during periods in which they're releasing content inarguably part of said promotional campaign, defined as new interviews, lore, or trivia videos being released via YT and promoted by socials at the same time as those clips. And the hard-limit doesn't really clarify the point at all about a show maybe being more popular than normal and getting simply more material for a week or two longer than most: it'll just be hard-stop, no exceptions, doesn't matter at all if it's part of a campaign (The Acolyte, again, got consistent BTS promotion and material on YT/socials well past these proposed limits). It was brought up that a combination of time-based limit with some clear exception guidelines could've been proposed to allow for these unique exceptions, but that wasn't presented as a voting option.—spookywillowwtalk 03:44, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
          • I'm not really sure what longer window would be necessary, and tbh I didn’t see that suggestion of a combination. However, I still don’t even think that the videos in question qualify as part of the promotional campaign; they’re not the Official Clip style and they churn them out whenever they want to game the YouTube algorithm. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 04:40, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
      • To Cade, my point is we still don't know the campaign fully. We're still assuming. Andor S1 clips since its release could be part of Andor S2's campaign. Rebels clips could be part of Ahsoka's campaign. To Spooky, as I said in Discord, I don't care if the window was a year long, I just want a window (If we're going to filter out, cause I didn't want to filter at all) otherwise we're making assumptions. —Unsigned comment by NBDani (talk • contribs)
        • If the window was a year long; at the minimum we wouldn't be actively choosing a window that falls within the very definitive and clear BTS and promotional interview window of every modern show within the last few years. The problem is that the current options pretty much are that, in every sense; it could be proven with an easy text lookup that the interview and BTS video cycle for the last few shows spans far past both; thus making both options guaranteed to chop promotional campaign material—by default.—spookywillowwtalk 04:10, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola
  6. CometSmudge (talk) 17:17, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Option 2

Prefer a hard end date, otherwise we risk arguing over when the campaign ended, cause I don't think it is common sense. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 23:01, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  1. Bonzane10 Bonzane10-Sig 06:17, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. I ageee with Dani on this ThePedantry (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Option 3

  1. Prefer the longest gap possible. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:04, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. Lewisr (talk) 18:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Not only is it not common sense to be arbitrarily picking the cutoff point, but it's also an undue research burden on ourselves. Imperators II(Talk) 13:37, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

  • I just want it on the record that I take issue with the wording "after the end of the promotional campaign surrounding its initial release." This makes the entire policy up to interpretation. We're deciding when they chose to end their promotional campaign, with no insight from LFL. LEGO Star Wars: Rebuild the Galaxy premiered in September of 2024. It stopped getting YouTube videos in October and November, but since December it's been receiving steady YouTube videos promoting it up into even February 2025. Are we all in agreement this campaign is still ongoing and these videos should be listed? Or are we making some decision, without any proof, that the campaign ended in October and they're just posting videos to keep their algorithm current. This policy isn't common sense. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 19:08, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Vote #4.2: Caption Exception

This vote is to add the following bolded text to the end of the line from Vote #4:

No modification was made to the original video content beyond captions for dialogue.

Support

  1. If it's literally just adding captions into the video itself, that's not a modification worth distinguishing or noting; that's just a common practice for YouTube shorts due to them being designed for phones. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 23:02, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. —spookywillowwtalk 00:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:38, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Imperators II(Talk) 13:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)
  9. CometSmudge (talk) 17:18, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
  10. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:09, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #5: YouTube Shorts/Etc on Media Articles

This vote is to add the text to the "Sources" section of the OOU Layout Guide:

For articles on television and film media, YouTube Shorts and videos posted on sites such as StarWars.com that solely repost portions of the original work need not be listed in the Sources or External Links sections, provided that:
  • The video was released after <result of vote 4.1>
  • No modification was made to the original video content <result of vote 4.2>

Support

  1. I see no benefit to listing them on the media article either, but I understand that's not a universal sentiment. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 22:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. OOM 224 23:43, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. —spookywillowwtalk 00:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 06:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:38, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. CometSmudge (talk) 17:19, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. I prefer to list them. If anything, they're proof of Disney using them to market D+, which I feel needs to be documented. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 23:04, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
    • To be clear, the proposed text is not outlawing them, in fact it's the opposite. It's just making them not a requirement, and also stating that the modified/promotional-within-window ones should be listed. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 03:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
      • Yea, I think they should be listed, period. And definitely with no window to not list them at all. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 12:34, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Lewisr (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. ThePedantry (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
  5. Imperators II(Talk) 13:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Discuss