Forum:CT:Allowing singular "they"

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The result of the debate was Support. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 09:15, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

The SH to discuss how to proceed with singular "they" has been quiet for about a month, and the mood has been pretty receptive to removing the rule forbidding using it when gender is unknown. To recap: currently the MOS' section on gender reads:

Do not use the pronouns "they," "them," or "their" to refer to individuals of unspecified gender

Formal style guides are a bit divided on whether it is a good idea to use singular "they" to refer to persons of unspecified gender, but the American Psychological Association's guidance supports it, and it would save article writers some trouble.

The major point of debate in SH has not really been about whether it's acceptably formal. Instead, there was some back-and-forth over whether singular "they/them" should be kept for nonbinary individuals, to highlight when that is the known and correct pronoun, or whether it should be normalized through use for anyone not explicitly assigned a set of pronouns matching a binary gender. Personally, I think it can be made pretty clear when "they/them" is being used for a character who uses those pronouns vs. a character of unknown gender, since we tend to explain these things in article bodies anyway. (See Ceret for an example of a writeup of a nonbinary character that makes it clear that "they" is the correct set of personal pronouns).

So, my proposal is to strike this line from the MOS.

Support

  1. As proposer. Minnabird Naboo (talk)
  2. Do you know how much of a pain in the butt writing articles for individuals of unspecified gender is when you're not allowed to use gender-neutral pronouns? Extremely. SilverSunbird (talk) 06:45, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  3. Immi Thrax RainbowRebellion2 (she/her) (talk) 06:46, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  4. Dentface (talk) 06:47, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  5. Anyone who writes anything with TOR Crew Skill missions stuff in it knows that. :P Imperators II(Talk) 06:47, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  6. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 06:48, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  7. 100% support. Zed42 (talk) 06:52, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  8. YakovChaimTzvi (he/him/his) ChissAscendancyCanonSymbol (talk) 07:08, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  9. Wok142 (talk) 07:15, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  10. Full support. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 07:18, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  11. Jedi Order ImpacticForce (Talk) 07:44, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  12. Generally we need to be clear to whom we are referring to with pronouns anyway, so this just makes it easier on our editors when that is the case Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 08:21, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  13. This frees us up to decide what's best for an article on a case by case basis which is definitely preferable. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:38, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  14. Braha'tok enthusiast Hello there 09:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  15. Yes Ramsay Sanders (talk) 10:11, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  16. The most poggers of all CTs I've seen so far. NBDani (talk) 10:36, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  17. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 10:36, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  18. 01miki10 Open comlink 10:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  19. NanoLuukeCloning facility 11:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  20. VergenceScatter (talk) 13:25, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  21. Editoronthewiki (talk) 13:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  22. OOM 224 17:26, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
  23. IFYLOFD (Talk) 22:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
    Roguish Knight (talk) 00:37, 26 October 2021 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: provision 1 under "Additional provisions" -- MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 21:45, 27 October 2021 (UTC))
  24. Per my thoughts expressed in the SH thread. jSarek (talk) 07:49, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
  25. LucaRoR CIS roundel (Talk) 15:23, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
  26. Efe Önem (talk) 19:17, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
  27. Rakhsh (talk) 19:19, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
  28. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 22:32, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
  29. Finally, I can write Ooris so that it's more bearable. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 01:57, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
  30. 100% per Imperators Fan26 (Talk) 03:17, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
  31. Seems like a no-brainer to me. SorcererSupreme21 (talk) 18:18, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

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