Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Dromund Kaas operation (second nomination)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Dromund Kaas operation

  • Nominated by: Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 04:08, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Resubmitting this one; it was removed by Tope because of my absence and some unconfirmed changes (which I've since reviewed and am fine with)
  • WookieeProject (optional): WP:TOR

(4 Inqs/4 Users/8 Total)

(Votes required: No additional votes required to pass, please consider reviewing another article.)

Support

  1. OtterSurf (talk) 10:02, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
  2. Commander Code-8 Hello There! 09:07, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
  3. A very absorbing read, and well-done! Minnabird Naboo (talk) 03:15, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 16:22, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote I read this yesterday and forgot to support, really great stuff. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 01:13, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Supreme Emperor Holocomm 03:38, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  7. Fan26 (Talk) 03:26, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
  8. Inqvote OOM 224 14:54, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Object

CC-8 operation
  • The intro says that the galaxy at large believed the Emperor's death, but later on says that it was secret for two years.
    • Clarified.
  • The prelude and galaxy at large could use an image, and the operation could do with subsectioning
    • Images added, but there's really no place to subsection, as I'd have to put it in the middle of the GameLS section - which needs to be grouped because it's all about the same part of the event - or at the start of it, and that leaves a 2-paragraph part preceding it.
  • Is Scourge's vision of the Hero standing over the Emperor not technically an appearance for this event? Commander Code-8 Hello There! 03:49, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
    • Fair point. Updated. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 14:47, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Is it clear why the Hero couldn't be controlled by the Emperor? Commander Code-8 Hello There! 12:33, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
    • I don't believe so, no. It's basically "you're the player character and special" with a dash of "you've broken free before" but I don't think it's stated. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 15:55, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
  • I think a line about where the Emperor hibernated after the operation would be relevant, and would a description of his ultimate fate be taking it too far? Commander Code-8 Hello There! 05:21, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Added the fate stuff, but it's unclear where his physical body was, AFAIK. He's just in hibernation in his original form (which I clarified again as well) Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:22, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
UberSoldat
  • Infobox:
  • Can you specify the actual source with the holomessage in Ref 2?
    • Done.
  • The infobox has the only dual reference in the article. Is it necessary to have two sources cited there?
    • Fixed.
  • In "Casualties," can you be more specific than just "Moderate" or "Heavy"? What kind of losses did both sides endure?
    • It's unclear, as the player only sees a small part of the fight. We don't get any info on the space battle beyond the general "taken losses" and that the Imperial forces on the ground encountered by the Hero's crew are defeated.
  • Main body:
  • Second intro paragraph can definitely use a break.
  • Images can be enlarged.
  • "With that discovery, the seeds of rebellion were sown." Without context, this has a very unencyclopedic tone.
    • Clarified.
  • BTS:
  • Per Layout Guide, more precise release dates for Revan (also missing author) and the TOR game are needed.
    • Revan, yes, but I was under the impression that "2011" was sufficient for TOR.
      • They're needed because both sources came out in the same year, as stated in the section linked above. Also, can Revan's full date be sourced to the novel? UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 16:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Some of the BTS's first paragraph feels unnecessary since you've already detailed what happened after the operation in the Aftermath section.
    • Trimmed.
  • Per ample precedent, assumptions by the article should not be relegated to reference notes and instead should be detailed in the BTS itself.
    • Done.
  • Add Revan and Annihilation audiobooks to Appearances.
    • Done.
  • Reviewing note: Please see this Manual of Style clause: "But do not link individual words within proper compound nouns (examples: Death Star, Azure Dianoga Cantina, Galactic Empire, Bantha-class assault shuttle)". UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 11:32, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Are there any left, or did you remove them all? This was written a while ago but I'll keep that in mind. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 15:53, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
      • I removed them wherever I saw them, but it would be good to go over it again just in case. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 16:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Are there any ships that can be clearly seen in the battle? They can be documented under "Strength" in the infobox, and in the body.
  • I'd like to see some sectioning done to Prelude. I can see a split between the stuff the Emperor did and the Galactic War breaking out. I also want to see some more context for that section's image caption. There is also space for another image and another quote after sectioning.
  • "The operation" desperately needs some sectioning, a split between the planning phase and paragraphs covered by GameLS will suffice.
  • First image's caption in "Aftermath" can benefit from more elaboration.
  • 1stID missing from Appearances, since the BTS makes it clear the name does not come from Revan. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 18:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
  • One last thing, can you add an image to the BTS? Either the cover of Revan or TOR will do. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 07:28, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
    • Done, the BTS image from the Hero actually shows the operation so it was a perfect fit. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 16:02, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Minnabird
  • Should 3640 BBY be linked in the body, even if on "around a year later"? Right now it's linked only in infobox, intro, and references.
  • Do we know why Scourge betrayed the Emperor? Is it just that it was fate? What does he tell the player character?
  • "he detected that one of the Hero's companions was about to be overwhelmed by Imperial Guard reinforcements nearby" Do we know how he detected it? were there like, cameras? If he just said "they're about to be overwhelmed!" and we don't know how he knows it's fine as-is.
  • "He scoffed at the Hero's claim that they would open his eyes to the way of the Jedi by taking him to Tython, arguing that, by doing so, the Hero clung to Tol Braga's old ambitions, ignoring their true desires." Not 100% clear what's happening here. What are Tol Braga's old ambitions/how are they relevant or how would the player character react to them? Whose true desires? I also don't think "by doing so" really connects well to the thing it's supposed to describe; the phrase suggests it's referring back to a verb, which I think is supposed to be "claim," but that's used as a noun in the sentence? If that makes any sense at all. Basically: didn't revise this sentence because I'm not 100% sure how to do so.
  • Do we know who Admiral Dabrin is? He turns up for the award ceremony seemingly without context. Minnabird Naboo (talk) 02:48, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
    • All addressed via Discord. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 03:13, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
OOM
  • I've just started Chapter 3 for the Jedi Knight storyline, so I'll skip reviewing the parts on the operation itself for now.
    • Firstly (I don't know the exact details of the mission yet), I'm not sure if the article needs to provide so much context about Vitiate's rise to power—in particular, the whole of the first two paragraphs seem to be irrelevant. For example, in Race against doomsday, "as he had Nathema" is a nice way to link back to the ritual, but it can just be removed along with the first two paragraphs.
    • "rendering him immortal and granting him immense strength in the Force" — I'd say it's better to swap these around since immortality is a part of increased power.
    • I've noticed some missing links (e.g. Living Force/Legends, Sith Emperor, Millennium/Legends) in the two paragraphs, so you might want to look over the article again and add links where appropiate.
    • Since the fates of Revan and Scourge are mentioned, you may as well say that the Exile was killed.
    • You can mention how the Jedi came to know that the Emperor was planning a ritual to consume the whole galaxy in Race against doomsday.
      • All of the above are done.
    • BTS: I don't see the significance of mentioning Chancellor Saresh's announcement in the first paragraph.
      • It's a major plot point of the post-game, that the Empire and the Republic don't know of the Emperor's defeat. It's why they're in confusion at Ilum, and why Malgus breaks from the Empire, and it's kept as a secret (but rumored) until Makeb.
    • "fighting the Emperor in the Dark Temple in its summary of the Jedi Knight class storyline" — You can cut down on the detail here. At this point, reader only needs to know that the Dromund Kaas operation is depicted in the book. OOM 224 18:48, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
    • Actually, I think that last paragraph should be removed entirely. Sample player characters are now frequently used on swtor.com and their social media posts, and since the fact that images of sample player characters are non-canonical doesn't have anything to do with the Dromund Kaas operation itself, the information here can just be moved to the Hero of Tython article, à la The Barsen'thor#Character identity and customization. OOM 224 10:58, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
      • Removed.
  • Per this and now this, you can make the wording here less awkward by using gender-neutral pronouns for the player character. OOM 224 10:58, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
    • Ehhh, I'm fine with it as is, but if you/anyone else can point out specific cases I'll change em. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:17, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Review note: made some changes to one of the references OOM 224 21:44, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Does the game ever capitalise "Temple" on its own? There's an inconsistency regarding the capitalisation in the intro.
    • I've lowercased Temple to be safe.
  • Context needed for Belsavis, Voss, and Corellia in the body. A separate ref might be needed if Doomsday doesn't refer to them as worlds or planets. Same for Kaas City as the Imperial capital.
    • Done. Kaas City is indeed referred to as the capital.
  • Given the quoted commands, do we know what happened to Manaan and Ord Mantell? Context is needed there as well.
    • No, there's no followup on those quotes, and I'd disagree on the need for context as they're explicit quotes and I shouldn't modify them, and I don't need to follow them with "Manaan and Ord Mantell were planets"
      • Readers won't know the significance of those commands if they don't know that they were planets, so context is necessary. To avoid awkward language, you can say something to the effect of "In his pain and anger, the Emperor gave crazed and conflicting commands to his children regarding the treatment of entire planets." OOM 224 19:22, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
        • Nevermind, I've gone ahead and addressed this in a different way. OOM 224 09:28, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
  • "When one of their number, Dread Master Styrak, was slain on the planet Darvannis, the remaining five sank into insanity and decided to destroy the galaxy; they were ultimately defeated at the moon of Oricon." — this part isn't really relevant. Mentioning that the Dread Masters were defeated is enough. A timeframe for their rise and fall would be helpful though.
    • I would argue that it is relevant, as it's a galactic threat specifically instigated by the fall of the Emperor. As for timeframe, it occurs immediately after the Makeb invasion, that's why I placed it there.
      • Alright, I see. I still don't think the cause of their fall to insanity is needed though, so I would remove Styrak's death. OOM 224 19:22, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
        • Done.
  • Do we know whether Vaylin was the Emperor's only biological daughter? OOM 224 12:56, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
    • He only has 3 children, yes. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 18:24, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Then a comma should be placed right after "biological daughter." OOM 224 19:22, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
  • I think it would be better to move the part about the Emperor's final death (3626 BBY) to after the very last sentence about Vaylin. OOM 224 19:22, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Imp
  • It's a bit awkward that {{TOR dates/4}}, which also dates the somewhat-unconnected Battle of Ilum, is only used for dating the 3640 BBY date for "Doomsday". Can you instead replace that with a manual ref note that 1) only uses one of the two sources mentioned in that template, 2) explicitly mentions the Dromund Kaas operation and/or the "Doomsday" mission, and 3) does not mention the Battle of Ilum? Imperators II(Talk) 13:36, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
    • Ilum is directly connected, as the operation is the inciting factor for Malgus's betrayal at Ilum. I've added more detail to the ref note; the Encyclopedia specifically puts Ilum in 3640 and that's why it's needed to be mentioned. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 18:26, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
      • In the new date reference, you should note per which source does Ilum follow Dromund Kaas. And while you're at it, you should also be consistent in referencing between the infobox and the article body: I see no reason why the fact that Dromund Kaas was followed by Ilum is sourced to a TOR mission in the infobox but to Annihilation in the text. Imperators II(Talk) 07:48, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 14:54, 25 March 2022 (UTC)