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Archived talk: The Revanchist | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10

More than one apprentice?

I just started a new game of KotOR about an hour ago, and I noticed in the opening crawl that Darth Malak is referred to as the "last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan." To me, it seems that Revan trained other Sith apprentices along with Malak, but Malak was Revan's chief apprentice. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 14:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

  • It cannot be. If you read the Darth Bane novels, you would see that Bane's concept for the "Rule of Two" was based on Revan's teachings: "Every Sith to take more than one apprentice is a fool". That's probably because this era was quite undeveloped at the time, so the concept probably changed... I believe it was written that way so it would seem there were a lot of Sith, which was true. Nanook 01:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Well, that quote doesn't say that Revan only had one apprentice. It could be interpreted that he said that, having failed teaching numerous apprentices. Besides, the opening crawl's "last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan" could also explain that. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 12:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Not to offend anyone here, but you seem to be under the impression that the only time a Sith kills another is to become a Master, that is not the case. It's entirely possible that Alek wasn't Revan's original Sith apprentice, despite their relationship during the Mandalorian Wars, and that Malak eliminated all his competitors to become Darth Revans' apprentice. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 13:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Uh, no, I'm not under that impression. Frankly, I think Malak was the main apprentice, and due to the lack of the Rule of Two, Revan likely trained lesser apprentices (perhaps the Sith Masters found through the game?) as well. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 16:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • All the sources after the first game came out indicate that Malak was his only apprentice, so no, I don't think he personally trained anyone other than Malak. Til a source come sout saying that he trained other apprentices, we should not add that to the article.--Jedi Kasra 21:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I don't know, man. Like I said, let's not do anything until another source comes out, it's won't be long before the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide is released.--Jedi Kasra 22:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Uh, why should we wait when the opening crawl specifically calls Malak Revan's last surviving apprentice? Something needs to be put in the article about that. I'd do it, but it's likely someone would jump down my throat because of it. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 22:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Just put it in the BTS section, since nothing is confirmed yet. Like I said, every source calls Malak his only apprentice, and doesn't even give any hint that he had other Sith apprentices.--Jedi Kasra 23:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
    • It is entirely possible at the onset of the Mandalorian Wars that Revan had an actual Padawan who became a Sith after the war...but to have another Sith apprentice seems to go against Revan's holocron in PoD...but then again, Karpshyn most likely never knew he would be delving in the EU in an era other than Revan's. Rushin Sundaws 00:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
  • It's possible, but it can't go in th earticle until proven by a credible source.--Jedi Kasra 00:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
    • I totally agree, perhaps we could just say that he may have had another Sith apprentice or Padawan at sometime before the events of KoTOR. Rushin Sundaws 00:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Yeah...--Jedi Kasra (talk) 01:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Last I checked, Jedi Kasra, KotOR is a credible source. Why are you so against putting that fact into the article? The opening crawl specifically calls Malak Revan's last surviving apprentice. That needs to be in the article. While whether the other apprentices were Jedi or Sith is unknown, Revan did have at least one other apprentice. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 13:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Until we actually get to see another apprentice of Revan which is not Malak, we can't put that fact without mentioning it's just a speculation based on the opening crawl. The opening crawl is not a proof. Nanook 14:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Err, are you serous? Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
          • Actually we can assume the opening crawl is indeed correct because of the wording of PoD and the opening crawl it does not say "Last surviving Sith apprentice" it says "Last surviving apprentice", therefore it is wrong to 'read in' the word "Sith" as Jedi were also reffered to as apprentices many times. This simply means that all his other apprentices that he ever had are dead, it does not mean that he trained more Sith it in no way says that. I believe that Grand Moff Tranner is 'reading in' more than there really is here.
            Ryan Fett (For Mandalore!)20px 15:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
            • Perhaps, but the fact remains that Revan had other apprentices, and the opening crawl is proof of that. This is not speculation; this is cold, hard fact. This needs to be mentioned in the article. I'm glad I brought up the issue here before putting it into the article. I didn't realize this would become such a controversy. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 15:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
              • Put it in, then. But it has to be clarified that those apprentices were probably not Sith. I don't see it fitting per current status-quo for Revan to have another Sith apprentices. Nanook 15:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I agreeRyan Fett (For Mandalore!)20px 15:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
    • I've added the information to a section of the article. It should probably also be mentioned in the introduction. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 16:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Nanook, are you aware that it's very likely Revan had more than one Sith apprentice at a time? The Rule of Two wouldn't be in existence for two thousand years. Yes, Revan used a form of the Rule of Two at least at the end of his reign, but it's not impossible for him to have trained someone else alongside Malak at the beginning of his reign. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 16:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Hmphh. I believe we'll just have to live and see, I guess that the answer will be revealed in the comics. I'd like to see another source confirming the theory. Nanook 19:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
          • It's the same source as most of this article uses. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 22:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
            • Of course. I meant something more of an example. I get the feeling that whatever intentions the author had in mind more than 5 years ago, it has already changed since. How is it no other source claimed similarly in that time? Of course, this is just a feeling. Nanook 13:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
              • Maybe he had other apprentices the same way Darth Tyrannus and Vader had Dark Jedi apprentices. Its also possible he added the info about never having more than 1 student in his holocron because some of the apprentices other than Malak tried to gang up on him and he learned from his mistakes. Steves490 19:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
              • It is possible that Revan might of trained a replacement for Malak when he reactivated to Sith Academies on Malachor V and Korriban. This would make sense seeing that Revan and Malak did not see eye to eye on tactics during the Jedi Civil War, the former wanting to strengthen the Republic by skipping heavily fortified worlds and the latter wishing to crush it with all his might. User:Unknown 19:00, 12 June 2008 EST
            • Again this is too much specualting we are getting away from the point. If he had other "Dark Jedi"/"Sith" apprentices or merely other "Jedi" who had been apprentices in the past it doesn't matter as they are all dead before KOTOR (which is the only evidence that he had any other than Malak), the fact that we have established that he did have others should be enough. We will have to wait for more sources to be released before we can acuratley plot anything.
              Ryan Fett (For Mandalore!)20px 18:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Revelation?

How was Revan indirectly mentioned in the book?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Revan slicing off Malak's jaw

It should be mentioned that he did so, while they were dueling, somewhere in the article, perhaps in the "Jedi Civil War" section. See the "Darth Malak#Sith Apprentice" section for the approrpiate sources.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please put up a picture of revan slicing off malak's jaw.--Darth Judicar 1998 09:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)Darth Judicar 1998

  • Sorry, there isn't an image of that event. All we know is that it happened. Cylka-talk- 12:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Hasbro cardback picture

[[:File:Revanhasbrocard.jpg|thumb|left]]

I removed the package elements from a scan of Revan's Hasbro cardback. If it's not considered fanon, could it be used, and if so, for the infobox? It looks live-action. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 13:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I like it personally. It's not fanon as its from an official product. I think the main reaction here will be that its too dark though. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 14:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Too dark and the quality isn't good enough for infobox. --Redemption25px(Talk) 15:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
    • I like it, alot. Good for the infobox, but a deff for the article whole. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 15:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
      • I wouldn't say it's good for the infobox, but, if there's space, it might be okay for somewhere else. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 15:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Comparing it with in-game shots is like comparing night and day, IMO. The only details that really need to be seen in an infobox are of the head, which you can see clearly and is bright enough. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I looked on another site, and the back of the card has a better/brighter version. I can try scanning it.[1] Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

That would be a fantastic main image. Can it be done? - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 18:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Yes, but I remembered that I have the Canadian packaging, which has the picture in just a small sheet. Even if I tried scanning it, my scanner's not that great. I'll see if I can get anyone else who has the regular packaging to do it. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 19:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Just attempted a rescan...utter crap. Unless the artist has a website with hi-res versions, we're stuck with this one. Just don't even try to put into the infobox. --Redemption25px(Talk) 03:42, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Stop trying to be King of Wookieepedia again Redemption. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Let's try and keep pointless, aggravating comments to the minimum, shall we? I think it's fairly obvious that the image isn't suitable for the infobox, but if you do want it there, please start a vote. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 12:04, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
          • I wasn't planning to put it in the infobox unless it was agreed upon, and even if I was I wouldn't because of the banning warning. If I do a scan/camera picture of thr brighter one and it's still not right, it could be used for the Mandalorian Wars section. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 12:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
            • Here's a brighter version taken by one of the administrators of YakFace.com. There's some cardboard lines in it, but it looks fine in the infobox.

File:Revancardbackbrighter.jpg

Another option is to ask Hasbro for the original picture in their bi-weekly Q&A on one of the collecting forums. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 14:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Er... the problem with that picture is that it isn't even an accurate representation of Revan's helmet. Compare it with an in-game screenshot or with [[:File:DarthRevan DarthMalak EGF.jpg]]. The helmet is too large, it is colored incorrectly, and it is not nearly as detailed as Revan's real mask. If you want to put this somewhere, put it in the Bts section.--172.190.129.205 15:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Unlike the toy, it is accurate, except for the silver which is likely because of the lighting. Even if they looked very different, it would still be canon because it's an official picture. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Nonsense. Revan's helmet/mask is a combination of a dull, reddish brown mixed with a dark, slate colored metal. The cheapo plastic mask in that picture looks almost nothing like it. Anyway, who says that the picture is canon? It is just silly. The helmet has a defined appearance and that picture does not match it. As such, why bother putting it in the article? It is ugly.--172.190.129.205 15:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Okay...that was a really unnecessary comment, Jasca. I have a suggestion for you too. Stop trying to bait people into an argument. Anyway...ignoring that obviously trolling comment, Yakfaces has nasty scan lines on it anyway. --Redemption25px(Talk) 15:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Before asking Hasbro for a high-res original picture I'll start a vote. This isn't a vote for either pictures that have been uploaded, it's for whether even a high-res original picture would be worth asking for or not. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

  • This vote is premature. Ask and then we'll see where it goes. If Hasbro denies the request then the vote would have been worthless anyway. A hi-res quality image is also preferable even if it doesn't go in the infobox. --Redemption25px(Talk) 15:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Good point about needing a high-res picture anyway, I've removed the vote. In Hasbro's Q&A, though, where I'll be asking them, they'll almost certainly give the picture, escpecially if told that it's for Wookieepedia, unless if they don't have it at the time. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Yes, if we can find a hi-res picture without cardboard lines and whatnot, I'd support its insertion into the infobox. Nice find. :D --Kessel 15:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

As would I. If you preiview either image in the infobox they dont look that bad. As for it being inacurate who says Revan didnt have two helmets,or maybe he had removable stickers on it. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 17:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

  • It's a good picture, but rather dark, if it were lightened up, I wouldn't be against its use as an infobox image.RushinSundaws 17:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Removable stickers?! K.A.J., you've just made my day. XD --Kessel 17:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Youre welcome Kessel. He may have been a Dark Lord of the Sith, but that doesnt mean he didnt have an inner child - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 17:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Seeing as it's a canon source, the helmet discrepancy shouldn't matter. Did Hasbro end up getting you the image, Drewton? I'd definitely support it being added to the article. --Brukhar 02:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
    • But seeing as Hasbro toys and pictures have been declaired non-cannon in the past and the fact that this picture directly contradicts everything else with Revan, how can it be considered cannon? if you look in the arcived chat for this page it was determined that Hasbro was not a cannon source for such things (or at least thats what the other users said I really dont know)Ryan Fett (For Mandalore!)20px 16:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
      • The toys (or whatever you want to call them) themselves are not canon, since it would cause a lot of trouble, but box art and descriptions are. Charlii 17:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
        • That's not exactly accurate either. Instead of pure non-canon, it's often grouped in the "ambiguous canon" department. Anyway, I'd say that the discrepancies are either artistic license and liberties, or he has more than one mask. Both of which are entirely plausible. JorrelWiki-shrinkableFraajic 18:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

All Choices Were Light-Sided??

How can it be Cannon that ALL of Revan's choices throughout the whole game are Light-Sided? Even after he discovers his true identity. Then story wise, there's no sense of conflict or character development in Revan. He's just a one-sided person who does good deeds. Without the personal and emotional conflict of characters like Anakin Skywalker or Jacen Solo (when he was becoming Darth Caedus), Revan's a boring character (at least in the game, not counting his back story before the events in KOTOR 1). It's a shame too. This character had a lot of potential. But according to Cannon, Revan's a predictable "do-gooder" (for lack of a better term) as opposed to, for example, Darth Vader and Darth Caedus, just to name a few. (JordanRevin08 16:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)

  • I fail to see why this is a problem. He becomes a Jedi, and he stays to that path, meaning he does good. So? Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 16:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Even if you do all of the light side acts in the game, Revan says that he almost turned on Lehon before dueling Bastila. I agree with you, however; actually, we don't know for certain whether all of his actions in KOTOR were light-sided. Wookieepedia assumes that he did because he "followed the path the Jedi/lightside". Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 17:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
  • So he was already a Jedi before the events in KOTOR 1 took place, and he still became a Sith Lord after the Mandalorian Wars, but at least then his character was interesting and more believable. After being brainwashed by the Council, he's been watered down to an absolutely ONE-sided character, leaving no room for important aspects like emotional and moral conflict - things which make characters like Vader, Caedus, or even Krayt and Cade Skywalker interesting to learn about. The idea of Revan still staying true to the Light Side all the way, even after discovering that he was "reprogrammed" (as Carth states) with a false identity by the Jedi Council, is unbelievable and lacking in character development. (JordanRevin08 17:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
  • I know it's Cannon that Revan chose the Jedi/Light Side path by the end of the game, but I can't believe that EVERY CHOICE he made in the game was Light Sided. That's like saying "let's just pick one side for a potentially great character, then toss him on the shelf without putting any depth or moral conflict into his character". (JordanRevin08 17:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
    • So you're saying that Revan may have made some dark side choices throughout the game? I doubt it, considering he was a Republic soldier and then a Jedi. No room for the dark side there. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 17:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Don't be so close-minded. That's how you make tedious characters. Anakin Skywalker was a light-sider when he cut down all those Tusken Raiders (women and children included), yet what he did was excellent for inserting moral conflict and regret into his character. Luke Skywalker joined Palpatine in Dark Empire, even after everything he went through with Vader and Palpatine in Episode VI. Jacen Solo started out much like the Cannon Version of KOTOR's Revan: a total lightsider with little to no interesting aspects, character-wise. Then he transitioned into Darth Caedus. So Revan was a Jedi and a Republic soldier, therefore "no room for Dark Side choices." Wrong. You'd have to do better than that if you want to get your point across. What point are you trying to make anyway - justifying why Revan should be an uninteresting character? (JordanRevin08 17:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
      • And so was Bastila, minus a Republic soldier. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 17:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
      • Um, excuse me? I wasn't the one who developed the game; there's no reason to call me close-minded. I'm simply stating my opinion on this matter. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 18:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
      • Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean you are close-minded. Your statement was close-minded. "Revan was a Republic soldier and then a Jedi. No room for the Dark Side there." He was already part of the Jedi and the Republic military before KOTOR 1 took place, and he convinced a third of both to switch loyalties to him. Seems like there's plenty of room for the Dark Side there. (JordanRevin08 18:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
        • First, you didn't hurt my feelings. I saw that as rather rude, considering I did nothing to provoke it. The fact is that, following his capture, Revan received a new memory. If he used the light-side option for everything after that, there was no room for the dark side since he had no memory of being a Sith (until Malak tells him, but by that time, you're eight light or dark). Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 18:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
        • And when he does figure out who he really is and what the Jedi did to him, Revan's still willing to do their bidding and remain the "happy-go-lucky lightsider/Jedi puppet". That's where Revan's character falls to nothing short of unbelievable, with zero psychological and emotional conflict, thus ultimately making a disappointing character. (JordanRevin08 18:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
          • With the light-side ending as canonical, it's obvious that Revan remains a Jedi throughout the story post-Malak's revelation. Undoubtedly Revan had a major psychological and emotional conflict, but that's not enough to cause him to commit some dark side deeds and still end up with the light-side ending. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 19:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
        • Yeah, that's why Anakin Skywalker committed a few Dark Side deeds, and many more during his time as Darth Vader, and yet he still ended up with a Light Side ending. Revan canonically chose the Jedi in the end, but that does not prove that every single light side choice in the game is canonical. He could kill Bendak, work with the Genoharadan, and still end up as the hero of the Republic. If it was indeed all light sided, then that just makes for a pretty straightforward story, with no real drama or emotional struggle within the character. (JordanRevin08 19:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
            • The format we have is fine, I think. There's no reason to completely discount the wealth in storyline that comes if Revan is a little dark (e.g. dueling Bendak Starkiller, confronting the Genoharadan). -BaronGrackle 19:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
  • In general, listing all of Revan's actions as purely light side and assuming full completion of the game with most side-quests fulfilled are two key Wookieepedia conventions. They're not meant to imply canonicity—they are stipulations we make and have made in the past so we can write an article without the speculative "Revan might or mightn't have duelled Bendak Starkiller". In a fully completed article, an extensive segment of his Behind the scenes section would be devoted to discussing his dark side and/or alterate actions. Again, we're not implying that Revan's actions were only light-side—it's a stylistic assumption until we get a canonical update from LFL. Thanks. Atarumaster88 20px (Talk page) 19:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
  • While I understand the position here, we might wish to revise Revan's page to at least mention the possibility that he undertook the GenoHaradan missions in the game. Why do I say that? Because the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide states in its description of the GenoHaradan on page 105 that "Revan is rumored to have decimated the organization during his search for the Star Forge." It doesn't state is as fact, but it is still rumor in an officially published book on the matter. I think that makes worth to at least note as more as "behind the scenes". It may not have happened in canon, but it is rumored enough to be stated as possible in canon. Jediphile 02:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Pic of Karath's torture of Revan, Carth, and Bastila

The pic depicts Revan as a white-skinned male. I feel that we should take this pic off the article, since one who has not played the game and reads this article would probably assume that Revan is white, like that whole business with his action figure. It's still unknown whether Revan was white, dark-skinned, or what, so we should take it off Agree? Disagree?.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

  • Agreed. Same goes for the ingame Star Forge duel screenshot. -- I need a name (Complain here) 18:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
    • I assumed it would be alright because it's used in the Force cage article. As for the Star Forge duel image, it was discussed and agreed upon previously. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 18:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
  • There's nothing wrong with the in-game Star Forge duel photo. So Revan is seen wearing his armored robs - that's how he's depicted in Duron Qel-Droma's vision, so said "in-game Star Forge duel picture" should be allowed to remain. (JordanRevin08 20:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
    • Except he's not. It's specifically stated in Shadows and Light that he's wearing the Qel-Droma robes, which is the hooded cape. -- I need a name (Complain here) 20:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
      • However, the only thing you can see clearly is the hood cape in the picture. There's no Revan mask. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 20:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Same Mask, same Gauntlets, do the math and it adds up to the same armor (most likely recreated by the Star Forge). The only difference is he's wearing a different cloak. (JordanRevin08 13:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
      • No, no, and I would if the first 2 assumptions were actually founded. But the fact that he's wearing a different cloak is enough to warrant removal of the image anyway. -- I need a name (Complain here) 14:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
        • It looks nearly exactly the same, just with a dark cloak. Anakin's appearance in The Clone Wars isn't how it's supposed to be but it's canon. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 15:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
          • The differences in appearance for Anakin in the Clone Wars is called artistic license. The differences between the cloaks are called them not being the same cloak. -- I need a name (Complain here) 15:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
          • The main problem that I see with the Star Forge duel picture does not lie with the color of the cloak. Instead, equipping that particular outfit, with the hood up like that, is not possible without either a mod or a cheat. I'd say that puts that picture firmly in the category of fanart, regardless of its accuracy. Unless it's explained how that can be achieved with an unmodded version of KotOR and without cheating, I think it's best that the Star Forge image be removed from this article until then. Muuuuuurgh 20:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
            • Or not. If we go on that decision, then we'll have to remove half the images from the article, including the infobox image; and I for one would be against that whole-heartedly. I suggest it remains there until another miage of the duel can be found. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
              • What on Earth do the other images have to do with this? And since we're starting to get sidetracked, we're all in agreement that the Karath/Revan/Carth/Bastila torture picture should go, right? -- I need a name (Complain here) 11:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
                • No, you can barely see who's who through the fields on the Force Cages, and removing it will just leave that space empty and blank, so I think it should stay. Jasca Ducato Sith Council 12:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
                  • I think it should stay as well. Also as the skin thing came up again, if we can't take Revan's skin color as white we can't take Nihilus's hair color as black. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 12:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
                    • "you can barely see who's who through the fields on the Force Cages" Barely seeing still means you can see them. You shouldn't be able to at all, therefore it goes. -- I need a name (Complain here) 12:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
                      • It can be interpreted that the colour of his skin is being hidden by the electric shock. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 14:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Jasca, on your first point, if you are aware of any other images of that nature on this page, I heartily encourage you to remove them. On your second point, I respectfully disagree with the idea that it is all right to include a fanon image in one of our articles in the absence of a canonical image. Muuuuuurgh 16:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with removing the Star Forge image, but I won't argue it further. Perhaps this image would work in its place? Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 21:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

  • I have no problems with the image of Revan dueling Malak, ut's the one with the force cages.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to discuss keeping the duel image again. There's even less details on the cloak in [[:File:Starforgeduel_22.jpg|this picture]]. It's just a black cloak and it has the brown gloves that look like vambraces, like on the Droma robes. Or I can take a screenshot with the actual Droma game robes and hide the head. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 18:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

    • That's the only canon way we can do it from the game. No matter how you spin the Revan's robe deal, it's still Revans robes. --Redemption25px(Talk) 03:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Planets

The events during the second search are barely even touched on. If it's because the order of the planets aren't specified, then leave a note. I would suggest using the order on the game's page so it won't cause confusion. NaruHina Talk 20px 07:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

To me because of the game lay out I think that at the very least that Korriban be listed as the last star map location after the Skirmish aboard the Leviathan. This makes the most sense to me because at that point Bastila is no long in Revan's party and she was not allowed to help on Korriban any way. --JMasterWor 17:36, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Relationship Audio Files

In the "Relationships" section, it struck me as odd that we have audio files for the Jolee Bindo quote and the Carth Onasi quote, but not for the other two. Can someone who has the PC game slice the audio files out for the Bastila quote at the very least, and possibly for the Juhani quote? Seeing as the Bastila relationship is the one that is canon, would it not make sense to have audio for that quote, if we're going to have it for the Carth Onasi relationship? Hopefully this isn't too nitpicky. :P

--Brukhar 00:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Male or Female

How do we know that Revan is male. In Kotor II: The Sith Lords, Revan's former master, Kreia, refers Revan as a female numerous times. Mastermooro 21:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

  • Only if you say that Revan is female in the game :P . Revan's gender was confirmed by Leland Chee and in the The New Essential Chronology. Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 21:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Furthermore if you read Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Revan is referred to as Male by Karpyshyn, who is the creator of Revan, you cant get much more cannon than that.

Ryan Fett (For Mandalore!)20px 15:12, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

      • CANNON GO BOOM! You're right, though. Nanook 19:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Just to note: KOTOR came out before the Darth Bane: Path of Destruction book. The game allows Revan to be either male or female meaning he could be either male or female. Best to be more precise. Sure the author of the book, may have been Revan's creator, but a book can be merely a perspective, an article should strive to be as technically correct as possible. Hence, I'd suggest Revan is referred to as "Revan" or "they" Poyntz 08:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

  • No, canon doesn't work like that. Ignoring later sources is like suggesting we ignore the events of ESB or KoTOR 2. It's nonsensical. -- I need a name (Complain here) 11:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Good point. However two different sources have conflicting opinions. one specifies male; the other specifies male or female. Which is therefore technically correct?Poyntz 02:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
      • The simplest rule is this: the latest source to something that was ambiguous is the most accurate. This applies only to things that are ambiguous, i.e. gender of Revan and the Exile being established by later products. Even if the author had originally intended an event or detail, it is the final product that's judged in light of later products. Thus even if Karpyshyn HAD intended Revan to be a woman, the canon gender was set as male by the later products such as the NEC. Leeland Chee and others word diligently to make sure canon is maintained once established. Vryce 07:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
    • DO NOT FOLLOW THE LINK BELOW AS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INDICATED TOPIC Ryan Fett (For Mandalore!)20px 02:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

This is proof revan is in fact the sith'ari:(Kessel: Rickroll removed.) Revan Acolyte88 00:37, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

  • Fascinating evidence. However, you've now posted this here and in Anakin's talk page. Obviously you don't believe what you say. - Drewton 20px (Drewton's Holocron) 01:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
  • StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com refers to Revan as a male. ––Bron Hañda 05:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

5.3 Factual correction

I just noticed that the Darth Revan article says that he turns to the light side at the Star Forge and that that is the canonical events. However, if you go to the "Post Jedi Civil War" section of the jedi exile's article, it says that the exile appeared after Revan left to go to the unexplored regions and all the jedi had been hunted down and killed. If Revan turned to the good and the Star Forge was destroyed, who killed the Jedi? Was it Nihilus or Kreia and the Shadow War? If so, this section needs a reference on that. Thanks!

Summary

The summary at the page is kind of long isn't it? DracosTheBlack 16:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Good Wookieepedia articles are of a very high level of detail, and length isn't an issue if there's enough material. If this had FA-level detail, it would be much longer, and there are far longer FA nominations at present. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

The word revenant seems like a likely source to me. Look at its definition:

from Wiktionary

revenant (plural revenants) 

  1. Someone who returns from a long absence.
  2. A supernatural being that returns from the dead; a zombie or ghost.

Doesn't definition 1 seem suiting for Revan, given his background? It even works for both the light side and dark side endings!

Light side - Revan was a hero of the Mandalorian Wars and a renowned Jedi Knight. He falls to the Sith, is killed, and returns from a long absence to the Jedi and his hero status.

Dark side - Revan is 'killed' by Malak (remember that Malak ordered the destruction of Revan's flagship), and after killing Malak on the Star Forge, returns from a long absence to his former title of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Makes sense to me.

  • The source of what the word means is not what goes in the Bts, it is the source that the word was what inspired the name, ergo, it makes the definition moot until it is confirmed. NaruHina Talk 14px 13:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Revan's Name

What was his real name? Was it just Revan or was that his Sith name? And what does the Sith name mean if that is just his Sith name?

It is currently unkown if that was his real name or not. My theory is that, because the Jedi Council order the arrests of the Jedi Crusaders, he changed his name to Revan, like Alek changed his to Malak in Turnabout. Then, when they fell to the dark side they became Darth Revan and Darth Malak. We know from the corpses of dead Republic soldiers on Dxun that he was called Revan during the late stages of the Mandalorian wars. And we also know that "The Revanchist" was a nickname given to him by the media, so it seems a bit to convienant for Revan to be his real name. At any rate the name Revan is inspired by the word Revanchism, which means to take revenge, to fight back, and to reclaim lost grounds. Which describes him perfectly. Jayce Carver 20:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Known Masters

Um, what about Bastila? User:AHS0KA

  • I've decided to ad Bastila as one of his masters, because you can't deny that she was. User:AHS0KA
  • Perhaps Kreia was his Sith master? Revan 'turned back to [Kreia] when there was nothing left to learn from the Jedi except how one could leave them forever.'--Thenorthernman 11:59, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

was malak redeemed

When you beat Malak on the Forge his word choice and tone make him sound regretfull. could we consider this like half redemption? could we compare him to lets say judas? Im putting this question on this page cause this page is much more popular than malaks

There's no such thing as "more popular". We would see the edit on either page. GB57 04:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Revan Turning to the Dark Side

I thought that Revan turned to the dark side to save the galaxy from a greater threat. But in the Revan's Sith Empire article it says that: Towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars, the Republic's Jedi commander Revan visited the ancient Trayus Academy on the Sith world of Malachor V. There, he fell under the influence of the dark side. So which one is true?LordDeathRay 22:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

  • That Revan chose to fall is Kreia's position. Unfortunately other sources make it rather obvious that Revan was doomed once he went to Malachor V. This is fairly clear even according to the Chronicles of the Old Republic. Jediphile 02:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Revan as a Jedi Master?

Hey all I've been reading your discussions and your articles for some time. I just noticed that in the article on Revan the first line says he was a jedi master. I've never seen a source that says this so I was curious where you got that info. Are you using the Revanchist for that?(Jdubbz 17:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

  • Thanks for catching that. I've changed to Jedi Knight, since he wasn't a Jedi Master. Cylka-talk- 18:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
    • It says he was a Jedi Master in the KotORCG, I believe. But it is canon that he was a master. NaruHina Talk 14px 20:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Can you please provide a link to where that statement is confimered. Also can you say what your acronyms stand for please. Are you talking about the KOTOR Campaign Guide? If so I have it right in front of me and it says absolutely nothing about Revan being a Jedi Master.(Jdubbz 21:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

  • Several weeks ago, we mounted a search in the IRC for this. I don't remember which source said it but it said he was a Master. And even if he wasn't it never says he was a Knight in the Mando Wars either. NaruHina Talk 14px 22:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Well if you ever come across the source again I would love it if you would post a link for us to see it. If not maybe just the place you started at so we can have a general area to search ourselves. Thanks.(Jdubbz 22:15, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

Are you talking about the Chronicles of the Old Republic saying he was a master? If so that article is plagued with errors in continuity. It says datooine was overseen by Master Vodo-Siosk Baas during the Mandalorian Wars which is impossible since Exar Kun killed him. It also says that Bastila's strike team tried to do the mind wipe on the Leviathan when his body was broken but was only partially successful. It also says Jolee Bindo was a Master even though he said himself that he never passed Padawan. It also says the Exile was a padawan when she rebelled and joined Revan but after the war she is called a Jedi Knight. It also says that Revan constructed Trayus Academy prior to the Malachor V battle but in TSL it says that it was constructed by the true sith thousands of years ago. So can we really take their statements that seriously?(Jdubbz 15:47, 22 February 2009 (UTC))

Revan is referred to as a Jedi Master in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. "The redeemed Jedi Master Revan". I imagine it was a rank he gained after his redemption. (86.1.172.195 10:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC))

Possible canon for Revan's class

Hey again. I bought and read the new campaign guide for Kotor link and found something interesting. It lists one of Revan's powers as force focus. Does this mean he is a consular? That is the inherent power of that class.

Garrr I wish they would just come out and say it for crying out loud.(Jdubbz 20:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

  • Well, the inherint ability learning of the classes may just be game mechanics. To take an example from KotOR2 You have to be a specific class to learn Force Crush but any Dark Jedi can learn it in canon. NaruHina Talk 14px 20:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Aren't the games considered C-canon as well. Also Mace Windu knew Force Crush. He always walked a fine line using the vapaad form which chanelled his darkness into a weapon of the light. This could explain why he could use force crush without being a "sith lord".(Jdubbz 20:37, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

  • Yes the games are C-canon, but there are things in them called "Game Mechanics" in them. For example, Vulture droids are self piloting but in SW: Battlefront 2 they need a droid pilot. That only a certain class can learn a Force Power is also a game mechanic in that, as you said, even Jedi can learn dark side powers and Mace Windu, a Jedi Master, learned an ability only available to a Sith Lord in KotOR so even if he canon learned this power, it does not confirm his class. NaruHina Talk 14px 20:52, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

So noone thinks it is even worth mentioning? I mean the book is a canon source and this is the KOTOR era and not the era you speak of where they can learn any power. Even the book says it is based on the KOTOR era.You would think those "game mechanics" would apply in the era.(Jdubbz 21:00, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

  • No, I think it should totally be mentioned that he knew the power but game mechanics are non-canon. Mention that he knew Force Focus but do not add speculation that he was a Consular because any Jedi can learn the power, at least until it is specificly stated in a novel or sourcebook that only consulars could learn the power. NaruHina Talk 14px 21:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe George Lucas and his posse can come out and say what class he is...grumble grumble. (Jdubbz 22:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

Thon's robe, a usable item in TSL, grants Force Focus to the wearer, as well as Force Jump and immunity to fear effects, which are normally all class-restricted features for Consulars, Guardians and Sentinels. Force training becomes individual at some point, the fact that Revan learned Force Focus doesn't say anything about the standard training for his original class.--Jinger 12:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Revan, Malachor and the Star Maps

Hey folks, just a quick couple of points to make. :)

First off, there should be some mention in the article that Dantooine is - at least as far as Malak knows - the first Star Map Revan found. Maybe Malak didn't know about Kashyyyk - it's irrelevant - we should at least point out that Revan may have found Dantooine's Star Map first.

Second: despite the fact that the CG (or was it EGttF?) holds that Revan found the Star Map on Kashyyyk and then went to Malachor (well, actually, it just lists him as finding them both in the same year, there's no concrete reference to it being one then the other), this cannot be the case when we are told, in KotOR II, that Revan learnt of Korriban's location from Malachor. Since Korriban's location is on the Kashyyyk Star Map, his discovery of it before Malachor is precluded. Sometimes sourcebooks are just wrong... and it doesn't help when the authors use incomplete Wook pages (like this one) as part of their research, either. (86.1.172.195 10:49, 25 March 2009 (UTC))

please sign your postsJdubbz 19:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory claims?

In the section of the article that covers Revan's fall to the dark side, it is suggested by Kreia that 'perhaps Revan never fell', and at the end of the article it is written that 'Revan eventually embraced the dark side'. Doesn't that invalidate Kreia's claims from Kotor 2? —Unsigned comment by 89.123.18.194 (talk • contribs)

  • Yeah, it pretty much invalidates her claims. When I wrote that section, I was only presenting facts. I was trying to avoid making any commentary that could be construed as original research. A lot of people would get annoyed if the article flatly stated that Kreia was wrong.
    Besides, I don't think that Kreia was trying to say that Revan never became a true dark sider. On the contrary, I think she was trying to emphasize that he did not unintentionally fall to the dark side like Ulic Qel-Droma, but rather chose the dark side with full understanding of what he was doing.--Sentry 05:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Revan's Skin Color

Can someone explain where it's stated that Revan has light skin? What's the source behind that claim? Why should we automatically take everything about some miscellaneous toy to be canon? Even if it were to be taken as canon wouldn't it simply in reference to Darth Revan? The Dark Side makes the skin pale so maybe that could be the explanation. Yamagashi21 02:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The action figures are canon. We take Nihilus's black dreads as canon, so we must take Revan's light skin as canon. In the game a black persons skin is turned dark gray by the dark side, not white. Jayce Carver

First of all black people are not the only people with dark skin and in general dark skin is seen to become very pale when heavily influenced by the dark side. Second what source says that anything and everything about SW/KOTOR related toys are automatically canon despite the fact that it's not unheard of for toys to contradict canon at times? Based on what authority do you make that claim? Yamagashi21 15:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Toys are C-canon and this doesn't contradict anything. I'm unsure what the problem is. --Redemption25px(Talk) 15:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying this particular situation is a contradiction but it's not unusual for toys to incorrectly portray their source material at times. Are we simply to assume that every detail about any toy is canon? The real question here is what authority figure has approved and declared this to the canon appearance of Revan? Yamagashi21 16:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

  • All the toys go by Lucasfilms and they're the ones who approve each and every toy released with the copyright on it. So Lucasfilms approved this figure. Whether they know or not that it would mean Revan now has an official skin tone is another question but is irrelevant. And like I said before, there is no contradiction.--Redemption25px(Talk) 17:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well I really don't buy that explanation. There is a variety of possible Revan faces that have been scene including the KOTOR commercial mentioned in the article. Who's to say that this toy isn't merely the representation of a possible Darth Revan? If Revan had a canonical skin tone it's logical to assume someone of authority would have confirmed this is in fact the true representation of Darth Revan and not a possible representation. Yamagashi21 20:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

As Redemption said, everything goes through Lucasfilm. If they didn't want to establish Revan's canon skin tone they wouldn't have approved the figure. They did, however, and so it is canon. Jayce Carver

Even if every detail about the toy were to be officially announced as canon it would only be a canon representation of Darth Revan. Since the Dark Side makes the skin pale for all we know Light Side Revan can still be any skin tone and have any hair style. If it’s to be left in the article I think it makes sense to note the light skin is only a characteristic of Dark Side Revan as seen in the toy. Yamagashi21 14:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

We've been through this already. If you play the game as a dark skinned person, and you fall to the dark side, your skin will turn a charcoal gray color. The skin on the action figure is clearly meant to be white, therfore Revan was white. Sorry if you don't like it, but canon is canon. Jayce Carver

Sorry but your argument is very subjective. Given that the Dark Side makes skin tone lighter we still can't say what Revan's true skin color is even with assuming the toy is wholly a canon representation of Darth Revan which has yet to be confirmed. Another weakness of your argument is your incorrect assertion that toys skin tone automatically makes him white. Yamagashi21 17:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The dark side turns dark skin gray. The toys are canon. Revan had light skin. Deal with it. Jayce Carver

Well since your subjective arguments up to this point really amount to little more than "it's canon because I say it's canon" and you seem to find that argument to be sufficient it would appear you have nothing substantial left to say. There is still no way to be certain about his true skin tone based on the fact that the dark side can change skin tone. This may "possibly" be a canon representation of Dark Side Revan but the fact is we still don't know what he would normally look like. Yamagashi21 19:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Shall I go through the unnecessary and certainly unfulfilling task of displaying every single dark side portrait to show that no matter how you look at it, the dark sides skin tones are all gray? It isn't canon because Jayce says so; it's because Lucasfilms says so and our policy dictates that we have no choice but to accept that fact. You don't have to like it. You can still play the game as any character you want. --Redemption25px(Talk) 19:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

By all means show the portraits. That still doesn't answer the question of whether or not the toy is simply a “possible” representation of Darth Revan. How do you know for sure? Also it certainly doesn't mean that Darth Revan is “white” as Jayce claims or do you support that assertion as well? Yamagashi21 21:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I'm not wasting my time just to prove my point to you and you alone. And I support whatever the canon dictates. In which case stems from an action figure. Is not every form of media not a possible depiction of a character? Is the Cade on the cover of Legacy not a possible depiction of Cade Skywalker? These are fictional characters. There are no possibilities. Until another source says otherwise, Revan is a fair skinned male. I don't care if you like it or not. He's just as fair skinned as Nihilus has dreadlocks and the Exile has brown hair in a ponytail. --Redemption25px(Talk) 04:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The toy was reviwed by Lucasfilm, approved by them, and released under their trademark with the name Darth Revan. It is an official product and therfore is canon. If it were meant to only be a possible appearance it would say so on the packet. You don't have to like it, but while editing this site, you have to lump it. Jayce Carver

Like I said it even if considering the toy as absolute canon it only includes Dark Side Revan and at the very least that should be noted. You still haven't been able to back up the statement that Revan is "white" when in truth he could still be any race even with the assumption that the toy is wholly canon. The article simply assumes he has yellow eyes yet we don't see that on the toy. Yamagashi21 13:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, the fact the he has yellow eyes comes from the game itself. All PC models, regardless of race or gender have yellow eyes when on the dark side. Secondly the toy is 100% canon, this is not disputable. Thirdly, as myself and Redemption have attempted to tell you several times already, dark skin is turned gray by the dark side not white. Revan had light skin, please accept it and move on. Jayce Carver

If you’re going to take the game as a reference then you have to acknowledge that there was no bald white male option to even choose form in KOTOR so the only possibilities were that Revan was the bald Asian looking goatee man or The African looking man since canon Revan is bald. So it seems to clearly be canon that Revan must be the bald Asian goatee man or bald African looking man. I wonder if you can manage to accept that and move on. Yamagashi21 15:33, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I'd like to remind everyone to remain civil. There is no reason why this discussion should dissolve into attacking one another. Either settle this civilly, or just stop altogether. Thank you for your cooperation. Grand Moff Tranner 20px (Comlink) 15:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Well the game is his first appearance, so, yeah I'm taking it as a reference. It is canon that Revan was bald during his time as a Sith Lord. That does not, however, mean that he didn't grow his hair back at a later date. People do shave their heads you know, and that seems to be a fairly common trait among Revan's Sith. So no, Revan being bald does not prove that he was the Asian man, and he definately wasn't the African man because, for the last time, he had light skin. Jayce Carver

We can clearly see during the flashback sequence when Revan removes his mask all of the white male Revan options have hair. So like I said it must be canon that Revan is one of 2 choices, the bald Asian goatee man or the bald African looking man. We can’t pick and choose what to accept as canon after all. Yamagashi21 16:30, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Or he could have shaved his head after that scene, or sometime before and then let it grew back. Jayce Carver

You are now contradicting your own argument because in this case canon doesn’t fit with your own personal preferences. You say maybe he could have changed his hair yet there is no evidence of that so we have no choice but to operate on what we know not speculating about what his hair. If it wasn’t the Dark Side that made his skin pale maybe it was the fact that he covered from head to toe for so long his skin turned pale from lack of sunlight. Maybe he just bleached his skin for all we know. The fact is based on what we know as canon Revan is clearly the bald Asian goatee man or African looking bald man but most likely the former. You mistakenly claimed Revan was “white” but I’m sure you’re aware we realize now that assumption was incorrect. I agree that we have to put our own personal biases aside and just accept canon for what it is. Yamagashi21 18:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I admit that I misused the term white. I wasn't refering to his ethnicity, I simply meant that he had fair skin. As of now all we know about Revan's appearance is that he had light skin and (at some point) during his reign as the Dark Lord had a shaved head. That does not automatically make the Asian guy his true appearance, and until we have a canon source that shows him pulling back his hood and showing us his face it will remain so. Jayce Carver

  • Perhaps it'd be better, Yama, if you accepted something that's been dictated as canon is canon; your speculations amount entirely to original research and consideration, which I'm afraid we don't allow here. Instead of debating something that's not really that significant, it might be better if you dedicated your time to improving more/different articles. :) --Darth tom 20px (Imperial Intelligence) 18:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I’ve accepted the argument that it’s reasonable to operate under the assumption that the toy Darth Revan is a canon in its portrayal because it was approved by lucasfilm as Star Wars merchandise. Therefore we have to consider the KOTOR game as canon as it was also approved. Based on what we know as canon, Revan it seems is apparently the bald Asian goatee man with the lesser possibility of being the African looking bald man. If we accept that Revan was canonically pale skinned during his time as Darth Revan we have to accept that he was also canonically bald. That only leaves the 2 choices that have been mentioned. Yamagashi21 19:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Well obviously the game is canon, if it wasn't the Revan himself would not be. However the action figure does not definitivley establish Revan's canon face. I've just played the revelation cutscene with the long haired man, his hair is not visable it's completely obscured by his hood. If this is true for mullet man, than it must also be true for those with short hair. So your claim that the Asian man is the canocial Revan based on the fact that he is the only one without hair in the cutscene is completely invalid. Jayce Carver

This isn’t a very good quality video but the hairline is still clearly visible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJDRyH7e_IU&feature=related Yamagashi21 22:04, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The video shows that "mullet man" has a visible hairline. A minor point which Jayce was slightly mistaken about. Yamagashi21 03:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Ok, but how does that relate in anyway to Revan's skin color? It doesn't. Please do not clutter talk pages just to make a point. Darth Trayus 30px (Trayus Academy) 06:36, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Your right, it's not a very good quality video. More to the point it proves nothing, as Revan's hair is not visable. You can see a bit of sideburn but that does not mean he wasn't bald on top. You may not have noticed this, but no one else agrees with you. As Darth tom said, you'd be better off actually making some valuble contributions to the site, rather than engaging in a pointless argument that you have absoloutley no chance of wining. Jayce Carver

The video clearly shows “mullet man” has hair Jayce. Whether or not he would have patches of baldness on top is irrelevant because the toy depicts him as completely bald. Revan therefore must be bald Asian goatee man. He’s the only one who fits the description perfectly by being bald and lighter skinned. We have to remember the KOTOR game is Lucas approved canon. Also since the issue of Darth Revan’s skin tone has been pretty much agreed upon I suppose further discussions of his canonical portrait could be discussed under a more specific topic. Yamagashi21 14:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Hair is easy to change. Skin color, not so much. We know Revan had light skin. We know nothing else. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 15:11, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Gentlemen, I would like to point out one thing that you may have overlooked - who is to say that any of the portraits used for Revan in game are correct? It may be that LFL, when they choose to release a full canonical image, will disregard all images and go for something completely different. This is their right as the license holders. Also, please consider this as fair warning; if this discussion degenerates into a full-blown argument, or threatens to disrupt this article in any way, I will step in and execute administrative action. As for the moment, regardless of any evidence to the contrary, this article will only show information that can be verified by canon, not speculation or original research. Thank you. - Cavalier One20px(Squadron channel) 15:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Quite right. I think this discussion is pretty much resolved. Yamagashi21 accepts that Revan had light skin, which was really the whole the point of this debate. I realy don't think that further discussion about Revan's canon face is productive to the site, as we have no way of knowing for sure, and until we do we should keep specualtion off the talk-pages. Jayce Carver

We know Darth Revan was bald. It’s possible to question changes in his skin tone just as easily as we can about unseen “possible” changes in his hair. Revan may very well be naturally bald. Given that the KOTOR video game is canon it’s reasonable to assume one of the male portraits is canon. While of course each individual in- game dialogue option and interactions may not be canon obviously some of the options have to be. We know that Revan and Bastila’s romance is canon and for that reason the romance dialogue is also considered canon. Until we are told otherwise it seems we must assume Darth Revan was bald and lighter skinned. Bald Asian goatee man is the only portrait that fits that description perfectly. If we can speculate about changes in his hair we can speculate about changes in his skin tone. Yamagashi21 18:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

We can speculate about nothing. At the moment Revan has no canon face, end of story. Jayce Carver

You say we can speculate about nothing yet you were recently speculating about his hair. The issue of the in- game canon is really more an issue of deduce and reason than anything. That’s why Revan and Bastila’s romance dialogue is considered canon. Yamagashi21 20:06, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't speculating, I was simply pointing out to you why we cannot assume Revan's skin tone and baldness establishes a canon face. You really need to let this issue rest, because this discussion is going nowhere. Jayce Carver

You’re welcome to end discussing it if you wish. We have to go with what canonical evidence is given and it clearly points to the 1 particular portrait that has been mentioned. On a side note I find it strange that the article assumes Darth Revan has yellow eyes when Darth Malak is a Sith and he doesn’t have yellow eyes. Yamagashi21 20:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

We are NOT going to assume Revan has a canocial face just because their is evidence to suggest it. We wait until his face is explicitly shown in a canocial source. And as I've already said, all of the playable faces have yellows eyes when imersed in the dark side, it doesn't matter that Malak doesn't. Jayce Carver

  • To settle this stupid argument, I just asked Leland Chee whether Revan is indeed white or not at his forum on StarWars.com. I am confident that he'll answer, settling this argument once and for all.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
    • How can you possibly regard this figure’s depiction as canon? Not only is the mask COMPLETELY different from his true mask (the mask he finds and swears to always wear in KotOR #42), but the Darth Malak figure (released at the same time as this one) is inaccurate as well! He still has half of his jaw! http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=/TAC/TAC35malakF3.jpg Now, is this to be taken as artistic license, or what? I mean, did the other half just fall off? So, I’m going to assume that this is artistic license, to make Malak seem scarier or something to kids. Therefore, if Malak’s jaw is inaccurate, as Revan’s mask clearly is, than how can we accept this as canon? Revan’s skin is still debatable, on account of the action figures’ depiction being completely off in the first place. One last thing, I’ve played as bald black Revan; when he is dark side his skin is a very light grey. Skin tone in Star Wars action figures are so freaking variable that grey-to-white happens VERY often. Just look at all of the Palpatine figures and ask the many paler-than-ghost Lukes. Action figures paint jobs are SO completely inaccurate that to take Revan’s as canon is outright ridiculous. Revan211 23:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Well despite some inconsistencies and unanswered questions it seems that for the time being we are to consider it canon until we hear otherwise from an official source. It's also interesting that while none of the in-game portraits are considered canon we should assume the eyes in the flashback sequence are. I may be mistaken but don't all male Revan portrait's have dark/brown eyes? If so should we not consider Revan's canon eye color to be dark? Yamagashi21 22:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Guys Guys Have the It He had tan skin User:JediFerret
  • I asked Leland Chee whether the figure was canon or not on here, and he said that it meant nothing beyond one possible version of Revan, thus making the skin color listed in the article non canon.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Good job Jedi Kasra. After all the harsh criticism I got for questioning the idea of that being Revan's canonical skin color it turns out I was right to question it. I guess I should have done what you did in the first place. Oh and don't worry about apologizing Jayce Carver and the rest of you guys. We all make mistakes `Yamagashi21 15:26, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Masks

If not mistaken, today Masks is being published. When will this article be updated for us who can't get hold of the issue? can't wait :) MoffRebusMy Talk 18:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The issue establishes that Revan wasn't his real name, and that his Jedi Lightsaber had a purple blade, which explains the dual wielding vision in Ludo Kressh's tomb. Jayce Carver

The moment he was referred to as the Revanchist, I suspected Revan wasn't his real name. Also, it's impressive how they gave him a purple balde, probably to avoid the issue of what class he was. Sith Alchemy 101 20:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

That's weird. While I expected for edits to multiply since yesterday, the last edit is still 16th June. When you expect something too much, the universe tries to ruin it. LOL MoffRebusMy Talk 10:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

To be honest the issue was pretty corny. Revan finds his mask, takes on a new name and vows to fight in the name of justice, like Bruce Wayne becoming the Batman. There was nothing suprising or unexpected about it. Jayce Carver

I have yet to personally read the issue, but the main thing that I think will need revising is the section at the start of the "Mandalorian Wars" part (with the picture of him picking up the Mask), (i) to add that the mask is from some Mandalorian woman who objected to Cassus killing the Cathar, and (ii) to account for Malak saying: "now, we have an army, and sanction! The High Council fell into line as soon as the word spread -- and the Republic is overjoyed!". That might require rewriting the stuff like: "...in an act of rebellion above and beyond anything he had ever done before, he refused to acknowledge the authority of the High Council and sent out a full call to arms to the Order. No longer was he arguing for Jedi intervention, he was going to intervene", as it now sounds like the High Council did not object to the intervention quite as much as the games made out. JJM has explained it here. As I mentioned though, having not got the issue myself yet I'm reluctant to do the changes until I've read it first hand, as apparently there is some ambiguity as to whether Malak was embellishing their supposed "sanction". --Xanos 09:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Done. Or at least mostly done.--Demos Traxen 17:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Canoncial lightsaber color

In star wars kotor 42 masks Revan wields a blue lightsaber. Should we add that Revan was a Jedi guardian? —Unsigned comment by LordSquint25cnt (talk • contribs)

‘I need a name’ is right in KOTOR 42 'Masks' Revan wielded a purple bladed lightsaber, which we should have expected. From the vision the Jedi Exile had of Revan he wielded two lightsabers, one red and one purple. Seeing as that tomb was forcing the Exile to relive the past and see the future it could be argued that the purple blade signified the Exile's earlier memories of Revan, as the Hero of the Republic. While the red blade was for the Dark Lord of the Sith Revan became. Seeing as how Revan wears the same robes and mask as both Jedi and Sith it could mean the 'Vision Revan' is a combination of the Jedi Revan and Darth Revan. --JMasterWor 14:57, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Considering he had multiple lightsabers, it's hard to tell. He obviously had a red one during his reign as DLOTS, but the Mysterious Stranger was known to at least have had possession of a non-red one. Whether he used it or not is another story entirely. DAWUSS 02:25, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

DAWUSS what are you talking about? Revan used the name 'Mysterious Stranger' on Taris after he lost his memories and before being retrained as a Jedi. He wouldn't have had a lightsaber at that time. --JMasterWor 13:33, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

He's dead, he's ****in' dead

Revan's dead. He died in the Unknown Regions. If he defeated the Sith then how come the Sith Emperor came back with a huge army? LordDeathRay 22:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

If Revan died there, did the Exile die there too? Revengous 22:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It's quite obvious. LordDeathRay 22:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

  • What proof do you have that Revan died in the Outer Regions? Cylka-talk- 22:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

If Revan killed them, then how come the Sith Emperor came back? LordDeathRay 22:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

  • There's no way of knowing what happened to both of them. Hopefully backstory will be filled in during The Old Republic or maybye, hopefully... KOTOR III:The Adventures of Revan and the Exile.Steves490 22:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I thought it was called KOTOR III: The Return of Revan. LordDeathRay 22:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

You're right, he is dead. Or are we supposed to believe that he's alive still alive during the reign of the One Sith?

Sorry, I just had to say that. It's possible that he died. Or maybe he and/or the Exile came back believing they'd beaten the True Sith. Sith Alchemy 101 23:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Correct - we can't say he died, because we don't know. And saying "if he didn't die, how did the Sith Empire come back?", proves nothing - it doesn't have to be one or the other. The Haunted Angel 11:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Alright, this is getting off-track. It is pure speculation that Revan and/or the Exile died in the Outer Regions. I suggest that we end this topic since there is no reason to pursue it any further. Cylka-talk- 23:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Revan died of old age the time span between Kotor and the new MMO is 110000 or more years hese boud to be dead end of discussion

  • 110000 years? OMG, I thought it was 300... QuiGonJinn 20px(Talk) 14:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The difference betwen KotOR and toR is 500 years. It is not impossible for Revan to still be alive. Look at the Sith Emperor in toR. He's apparently 1400 years old.--Thenorthernman 12:07, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Advertisement!

Right in the "Early Life" section, and it seems to have been put in by a user... Maxaxle 19:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Canonical image of Revan?

Is this image a canoninical image of Revan? Gulomi Jomesh 19:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Uhm... I don't know. Which head would it be, anyway? Should be one of the top two, in the first column.--Jinger 01:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

In the article, it says that event takes place shortly before the Battle of Endor. So no, it's not. It doesn't even mention Revan in the article anyways. Ruthless Xero 01:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd say probably not. Based on all of the collaborative evidence it seems Revan is more than likely Asian goatee man. Yamagashi21 15:06, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Collaborative evidence? The only "evidence" I've seen is the action figure, and that was only because Hasbro didn't do enough research (even worse is that LFL actually let them use that picture for reference). I don't mean to sound aggressive, but I haven't seen any other evidence that suggests the bald guy is the official Revan. Actually, Leland Chee was recently asked about this, and he apparently just said that the bald Revan was one of many possible appearances for him. Check it out here (thanks to Redemption for the link).Sith Alchemy 101 21:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

No real name

Since we know that "Revan" is not his real name (rather it evolved from the Revanchist leader to the Revanchist to simply Revan), shouldn't there be a nickname template at the top of the page and the intro paragraph edited accordingly? --Darth Paulus 20px (May the Force serve you well!) 15:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't Revan Female

Was it accepted as canonical at some point that Revan was female? Something about figurines and carth originally referring to Revan as female, I think. 96.48.136.235 21:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

No Revan is canonically male. There is ample sources to easily confirm this. Yamagashi21 15:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Revan's legacy or continuation?

I think that Revan may be in stasis or have left his sith army in stasis. Mainly because of the ending shown for Empire at war the forces of corruption. It shows a scene of thousands of sith soldiers are all frozen in carbonite. the is a jedi/sith statue at the head who is clearly not revan. I believe that this is one of many cache's. Because why is it that the entirety of Revans sith army disapeared so quickly? I think that the sith threat that Revan went off to fight was in the future. though a cache was discovered it's unknown if it was awakaned or what signal was set for the cache's to awaken. it also suits the note kreia made that he would have no need for technology given that everything would be severly outdated. but Kreia was wrong about alot of things including mandalorian extinction. Though his army lingers in the civil war era it is unclear whether or not revan and or the exile are in stasis.

124.169.208.74 19:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)sqspecial

If they say the the true sith are extinct, why does revan look for them?

How can Revan find them if they're extint?

Revan's face

I have a solution! Chee said that Revan has many canonical faces, correct. Well, look into the eyes of the many faces of Revan when they're full light or dark. They are the same faces with different hair styles (I'm talking about the white ones).

Sith Master of Darth Bane?

Since Darth Krayt is listed as an apprentice of XoXaan (via holocron), then in a way Darth Bane can be said to be the apprentice (via holocron) of Darth Revan. To further strengthen this analogy, Bane used Revan's teachings to create the Order of the Sith Lords and the Rule of Two just as Krayt used XoXaan's knowledge to create the One Sith and the Rule of One. Unless someone objects, then Bane should be listed as Revan's apprentice and vice versa (ie, Revan as Bane's Sith master). —Unsigned comment by Caedus40 (talk • contribs)

  • If you take a look at the XoXaan article, it actually says that the holocron released her spirit, and it was the spirit, not the holocron, that trained Krayt. This is much different than Bane viewing only one of Revan's holocrons and being inspired by it. - Brandon Rhea 15px (talk) 23:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

position in military

I hate to be picky, but didn't Carth say Revan was in the fleet, not the army? If so we should change it as this accomodates for the 3 different class options better. User:1705jallen