Forum:CT:Reference magazines in Sources

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The result of the debate was Support all. —spookywillowwtalk 18:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

At long last, it's the sequel to Forum:CT:Card games in Sources, courtesy of Forum:SH:Consolidating Reference Magazines. While there is (understandable) opposition to dropping the departments entirely, I think we can all agree that visually, it makes a lot of sense and is cleaner to collapse the multiple departments down into a single listing with the option to show the departments—in other words, {{SourceContents}}. This is a general-purpose sibling of {{CardGameSet}} with different parameters. As usual, C4-DE can be counted on to wrap all existing listings in this template.

Formal adoption entails the following addition to the Sources header of the Layout Guide, after the bullet point on card games. Each bullet point will have a separate subvote.

  • (Vote #1) For magazine issues with multiple departments or articles within each issue, each department that mentions the article's topic should be listed as a separate bullet point, and should use the appropriate citation template.
    • (Vote #2) If an article's topic is only mentioned or depicted in material included outside of individual departments and articles, such as on the cover or in the Table of Contents, the individual issue should be listed in the Sources list, and should not use the magazine's specialized citation template. (ex: R1-J5 is pictured above the table of contents in Star Wars Insider 186 but not mentioned or pictured in any of the articles; thus, the magazine should be listed in Sources as [[Star Wars Insider 186|''Star Wars Insider'' 186]].)
    • (Vote #3) For reference magazines such as The Official Star Wars Fact File and Star Wars: Build Your Own R2-D2, if an article needs to list multiple departments from the same issue, then they should be listed within the {{SourceContents}} template, which will display the issue on its own line followed by the individual departments from that issue, sorted in release order in a hideable list. The citation template for the individual issue should use the parent=1 parameter to indicate its usage in the SourceContents template and to disable the validation logic that requires the department field. This template should not be used with fan magazines and other magazines, such as Star Wars Insider and the Star Wars Adventure Journal.

Also, in conjunction with that last sentence above, adding this to the end of the CardGameSet section:

The citation template for the parent set should use the parent=1 parameter to indicate its usage in the SourceContents template and to disable the validation logic that requires the department field.

You are all probably familiar with CardGameSet by now, but this is what it'll look like:

Vote #1: Require Department/Article Listing

Support

  1. Formally codifying our long-standing practice. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 17:01, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 17:34, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. —spookywillowwtalk 18:18, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Imperators II(Talk) 19:11, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:36, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 23:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 11:56, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Lewisr (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 01:19, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:00, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  11. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 12:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  12. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 12:56, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  13. CometSmudge (talk) 20:27, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #2: Listing Issue for Cover/TOC

Support

  1. Technically, the part about not using the citation template is already covered by another policy, but it feels worth mentioning here. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 17:01, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. As seen on Spamel of Anil's for a long time; long-standing precedent. But also tangentially in policy already.—spookywillowwtalk 18:18, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. Imperators II(Talk) 19:12, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:36, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 23:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 00:50, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 11:56, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Lewisr (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 01:19, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:00, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  11. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 12:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  12. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 12:56, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  13. CometSmudge (talk) 20:27, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #3: SourceContents

Support

  1. As proposer. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 17:01, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. —spookywillowwtalk 18:18, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 18:19, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Imperators II(Talk) 19:12, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:36, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. This styling of these types of sources looks sooo much better on desktop. One thing to keep in mind is that show/hide buttons don't work on mobile. All that means is that it auto-shows the items individually (and thus shows the parent one and then all the subs as equal bullets), but that is a very minor issue not worth preventing the advantage for desktop users. Would still really like to see a way to make this work in mobile someday. Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 23:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 11:56, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Lewisr (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 01:19, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:00, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  11. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 12:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  12. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 12:56, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  13. CometSmudge (talk) 20:27, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Vote #4: Parent parameter for CardGameSet

Support

  1. Bit of technical mumbo-jumbo but it's good to have in policy. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 17:01, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  2. —spookywillowwtalk 18:18, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  3. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 18:19, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  4. Imperators II(Talk) 19:12, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  5. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:36, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  6. Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 23:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  7. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 11:56, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
  8. Lewisr (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
  9. ThePedantry (talk) 01:19, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  10. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:00, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  11. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 12:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
  12. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 12:56, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
  13. CometSmudge (talk) 20:27, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

  • As a note, Dani has suggested applying SourceContents more broadly, for all magazines, but that feels like a wider discussion, since Insider has multiple contributors and its articles vary widely from issue to issue. So for now, we're sticking just with reference magazines, and can expand its usage later if we so decide. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 17:11, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
  • How vote two apply for the Star Wars: Rebellion (board game) which has "*Star Wars Insider 165 (Advertisement)" listed in sources? ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:13, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Same as it does for the Bucket example - you just keep listing the magazine as a plain link. Imperators II(Talk) 19:15, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
      • But no "{{C|}}", right? ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 19:21, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
        • Hmm, prolly best to capture that at least somewhere, perhaps on the index page. It's kinda not the point of this proposal lol Imperators II(Talk) 19:24, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
          • In this case, the {{C}} is just a custom appearance template beyond {{1st}} and its like, so it's just appended after the plain link to the issue, just like {{Co}} for when they're on the cover only. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 19:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)