Forum:CT:Mara Jade Skywalker Main Image Change

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Mara Jade Skywalker Main Image Change
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The result of the debate was Keep current image. Imperators II(Talk) 09:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello there, I've never done this before but I'm going to try my best to present my case for this. I've talked with several editors on Discord to try and figure out how to bring this to people's attention, and on the general discussions forum I asked people for input on what they thought of Mara Jade's main Wook image(Please, see here:(https://starwars.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000003636249.) The general consensus seems to be that Mara Jade's image is rather cheap and unprofessional looking, and while many of us love model Shannon McRandle, she doesn't represent the character as described in the novel's or other media very well, in this image in particular. I and many other's feel that the current image can be a deterrent to those who see the page, as they won't take the character seriously. This is very unfortunate, as Mara is a pivotal character in Star Wars history, and first impressions matter. So, I am proposing that the image get's changed. As linked above, many passionate fans came forward with potential options. If you would like to see the possible options presented, please click the link. I myself have collected a few, but am open to discussion about what else may work. I'd like to hear possible options if the one's presented are not wanted. —Unsigned comment by KristianwithK (talk • contribs)

Current Image

  1. First one is more realistic. Samonic ChissAscendancyCanonSymbol 21:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
    Not overly fond of the idea of using an image from a Canon source as the infobox pic for a major Legends article. Passivecz (talk) 22:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
  2. Photographs trump illustrations for me, and while it is a nice image, Galaxy of Heroes is an iffy source for Legends material. RogueWhistler (talk) 00:53, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
  3. Still prefer live-action. Also, the wavy lines across the upper half of the GoH images are really less than ideal for the infobox. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 01:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
  4. Like RogueWhistler says: "Photographs trump illustrations". You don't have to be crazy to hang out with me. I'll train you. –Nightlily 17:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
  5. While perhaps not the highest quality costume, I think that the first image captures all of the essential parts of Mara's appearance accurately and is the highest quality option I've seen, partly because of the realism. I'm actually not opposed to animated or illustrated versions of characters being used in cases like Torra Doza where the character is overwhelmingly associated with a specific visual style and realistic versions are a specific exception from that style, but Mara isn't a character with any one predominant style of depiction because of the nature of the many many different mediums she's appeared in. As such, in cases where there isn't an obvious style my default is always to go with the most realistic, while also prioritising stuff like a clear unobstructed view of the character's face in a neutral non-action pose. Ayrehead02 (talk) 16:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
  6. Shannon McRandle portrayed the "live action" version, which is exceptionally rare for a character with such a major impact in the Legends continuity to get such a portrayal. Most major depictions of Mara Jade are based on McRandle's likeness and original portrayal and this should be reflected in the infobox image. - Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 18:20, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
  7. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 00:08, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
  8. Hk 47 (talk) 07:56, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
  9. Green Tentacle (Talk) 11:20, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
  10. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 22:39, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
  11. Not a fan of the current image, but I dislike the "hologram-like" tearing on the proposal. Find a clear version of this image, and I'll change my vote. NanoLuukeCloning facility 14:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

New Proposal

  1. This one is a cleaner image. VergenceScatter (talk) 22:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
  2. Realism doesn’t give bad images a pass. While I like her portrayal of Mara, the image is dark and shadowed compared to the other image. Use of SWGOH for Legends content, including images, is perfectly acceptable given its cross-continuity content where specified Legends content is used (such as the 1st ID of Dash’s shoulder pads. This is objectively a much better of the character when looking at any criteria for the image quality, remembering that realistic is a style and not quality measure. Better lighting, more front-on stance (which is near-identical). If the first image wasn’t a photograph I think there wouldn’t be a choice, and that single fact shouldn’t prevent an improvement. Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 06:42, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
  3. The new image better depicts this character. Alternatively, should this vote fail, a post-Sidious’s (natural) life image might be appropriate since that would depict her later in life. SaintSirNicholas (talk) 19:52, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
  4. I've worked to find a version of the new image without the lines but have failed so far. Will continue looking but still feel the image is better in it's current state. NBDani (talk) 03:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
  5. Pog Lewisr (talk) 03:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Discuss

  • This vote shouldn't be "oppose" and "support." You should have a specific image or set of images that you are proposing and establish voting options for those. VergenceScatter (talk) 16:54, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
    • I took a look at the Google Analytics pageview data for Mara Jade Skywalker. Pageviews are relatively consistent recently, and in fact seem higher than they were 2 years ago. The bounce rate for the page is also actually lower than the average for the Fandom platform. So I'm not really seeing anything to suggest that people are being deterred from the page. I don't have a horse in this race but I saw this CT and wanted to provide that context. - Brandon Rhea(talk)(he/him/his) 17:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
    • I do apologize for the lack of images, I am VERY Green at this and only made it here through trial and error. My intention was to post the exact images I had in mind, but I wasn't allowed because I didn't have enough "edits." With that in mind however, the link I provided I feel directs to a very insightful thread about the community and a collective desire to see the current image changed. This thread also has images and then a direct dialogue towards the editors here about those potential images. I really do encourage you guys to click that link. If you want the images up here any help I can get to do that would be much appreciated, as I have them ready to go, and again, they are all official Lucasfilm images. As far as the analytics go, I'm not sure if they showcase long term user engagement or simply page visits, but in any case I feel that an uptick in page interaction would be in spite of the image currently displayed on the page, and that in fact if the image is changed it will only be a net positive.KristianwithK (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
  • I feel that the proposed new image better reflects Mara Jade. SaintSirNicholas (talk) 21:37, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
  • I disagree with the assessment that the original is more "realistic" simply because it's a photograph. Shannon clearly has a wig on, and is wearing poorly made attire. KristianwithK (talk) 22:49, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
  • As Passivecz pointed out to me, Galaxy of Heroes has been used for Legends article images in the past. I'm not sure why this would be the exception. KristianwithK (talk) 02:28, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
  • I think we need to have a discussion about page images, because I've seen that a lot of editors believe that more "realistic" images = better, when my experience is that that is definitely not always the case. SilverSunbird (talk) 02:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
    • That's just what a person likes, a discussion won't change that. Samonic ChissAscendancyCanonSymbol 08:21, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Agreed. Realistic isn't better if it looks like the model is gearing up for a fan-film. Timothy Zahn has said he wouldn't have casted her himself since she isn't what he intended her to look like. Live action is okay if it reflects what the character in question looks like. In this case, I don't believe that's the situation we find ourselves in. KristianwithK (talk) 03:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
  • I need to respond to Sir Cavalier of One here and just say that I don't agree AT ALL that most major depictions of Mara are actually based on McRandle's likeness. I can only think of a couple instances where that has been the case, and in most instances I'd say they were "inspired by" at best. AND EVEN THOSE I would prefer over the current image, because the hair color has usually been corrected as well as other features not found on McRandle. And yes, because Mara is quite possibly the most famous Legends character of them all, she received a a live photo-shoot. This does not in any way automatically denote quality or accurate representation. KristianwithK (talk) 19:58, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Let me pull up some descriptions from the books, put together by a friend of mine, and tell me if McRandle matches them:

Heir to the Empire:

  • "She shrugged, her red-gold hair shimmering with the movement." (Implying a very bright color, not dark. Also not much product in the hair, like the 80s hair in Shannon McRandle. Also Red-gold is clearly a play on red-blonde. So strawberry blonde or orange depending how you interpret it)
  • "And came to rest in the hand of a slender woman standing alone at the top of the barge." (Definitely not that, uh 'well endowed' " Mara is petite and fit. She's not a "Cosmopolitan model" but instead a "ballerina" slim but suprisingly fit)
  • "She was sitting in a high-backed chair, her arms draped loosely over the arms in a posture that seemed strangely familiar: a slender woman about Luke's own age, with brilliant red-gold hair and equally brilliant green eyes. Her legs were casually crossed; a compact but wicked-looking blaster lay on her lap."
  • "Only the top of the pilot's head showed over the seat back, but that shimmering red-gold hair was all he needed to see to know that his earlier guess had been correct. It was indeed Mara Jade who'd been chasing him."

Dark Force Rising:

  • "I'm not referring to the ship drop," Mara told him, reaching beneath her loose-flowing tunic sleeve to readjust the tiny blaster sheathed to her left forearm. "I mean this place." (Not so relevant to her newly purposed image, as both are sleeveless... sigh, still had to include it)

Specter of the Past:

  • "Leia looked back at the freighter. A new group had exited the hatchway: three Noghri, a sullen-looking Lak Jit, and Mara Jade, her red-gold hair glistening in the sunlight."

New Jedi Order: Destiny's Way:

  • "Mara brushed her red-gold hair back from her freckled shoulders and took a long drink."

New Jedi Order: Dark Tide I:

  • "She lay there very comfortably, her red-gold hair spread around her head like a halo."
  • "She rested her hands on the rear posts. Her red-gold hair slid down over her shoulders to curtain the sides of her face.
  • Her green eyes blazed with a strength that the weakness in her body mocked." (Long hair, not puffy. Fierce expression)

New Jedi Order: Dark Tide II:

  • "Mara brushed her red-gold hair back over her shoulders" (Again long hair)

KristianwithK (talk) 19:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

  1. I want to note also that the current art is Mara Jade during or before 4ABY.

SaintSirNicholas (talk) 23:11, 3 August 2022 (UTC)