Talk: WookieeProject Collaboration/Mitth'raw'nuruodo

Source sign up

If you are participating in the project, and wish to contribute, please put your name by the sources you possess. This will better allow us to see what sources we need to check, and in dividing the article up for separate users to edit. More than one person can put their name down for the same thing. Additionally, if you have checked the source for all info regarding Thrawn, please cross that source out.

Sources

P&T, and BtS, and other note pages

As you go through your sources, it is advised to add facts that you find important to the P&T note page, and the BTS one, in order to aid us when we write those two sections.

P&T note page

Below, please add any important facts you find when perusing sources. They will help us greatly when creating the P&T later on. Also, please add the source they came from.

• Thrawn spoke in hard, cold voice, using short and precise sentences. Even when his eyes seemed to glow in anger, his tone remained calm. (Galaxy of Fear: The Swarm)

• Thrawn was a sincere defender of the Imperial cause. When Tash Arranda confronted him and accused the Empire of being evil, Thrawn took the time to explain her his point of view, according to which the Empire was a legitimate, no-nonsense government that kept billions of beings fed and clothed everyday. He also said that the Empire was not constantly plotting to harm people, and the rebellious civilians who thought it did were being overly dramatic. For his part, Thrawn stated that he would never use the information he had learned from studying a people's art against them unless it became necessary. (Galaxy of Fear: The Swarm)

• As proved during his encounter with Tash Arranda, Captain Thrawn regarded arrogant behavior to be mildly amusing. He would show much tolerance to younglings who addressed him in a defiant tone, although he still would warn them to watch their tone in his presence, lest they wanted to face the consequences. (Galaxy of Fear: The Swarm)

• Thrawn was disgusted at how the New Order destroyed itself after the Battle of Endor, in the wake of Palpatine's death. (The Essential Guide to Warfare)

• Thrawn believed that symbols such as the 501st Legion were valuable. ( 501st Legion in the Databank (original site is defunct))

• Thrawn was considered a wholly objective figure. (The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide)

• Thrawn was held in the highest regard of the Emperor during the Dark Times. (The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide)

• Thrawn was considered extremely intelligent even among his own species. (The Unknown Regions)

• Having worked his way through the ranks of a Human-dominated Empire, Thrawn had often faced speciesism, which he considered "petty bigotry." However, he had learned to overlook the chauvisim of his xenophobic subordinates, provided it did not affect their performances. (Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire audio drama)

Skills and abilities note page

• Star Wars Miniatures: Attack on Endor:
  • Trained in astrogation, operating computers, and piloting.
  • Skilled at gathering information through both perceptiveness and obtaining information from others, as well as intimidation and diplomacy
  • Possessed knowledge related to tactics, alien species and their cultures, government bureaucracy and politics, engineering, and history
  • Trained in the use of armor, blaster pistols and rifles, heavy weapons, and vibro weapons
• The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide:
  • Thrawn was good at deceiving others.

Languages

• Star Wars Miniatures: Attack on Endor: He was able to read/write and speak Basic and Cheunh with him only being able to speak Huttese, Mon Calamarian, Sullustan, and Noghri.
• The Essential Guide to Warfare: Thrawn spoke carefully and precisely in any of the languages that he had learned.
• The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide: This source lists the following languages for Thrawn: Basic, Cheunh, High Galactic, Huttese, Minnisiat, Mon Calamarian, Sullustese, and Sy Bisti.

Equipment note page

• Star Wars Miniatures: Attack on Endor: Lists Thrawn as having a comlink, code cylinder, blaster pistol, and datapad.
• The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide mentions Thrawn with the same equipment, except that the comlink is an encrypted comlink.

BTS note page

Below, please add any important facts you find when perusing sources. They will help us greatly when creating the BTS later on. Also, please add the source they came from.

• The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide says that Thrawn is an Admiral during the Dark Times, which conflicts with him being a captain in Star Wars Galaxies. It also mentions him being a Grand Admiral during the Dark Times.
• The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide says that during the Dark Times "Grand Admiral" Thrawn revolutionized Imperial naval tactics. It also says that he was given command of a large fleet to take over planets in the Unknown Regions by the Emperor when he was an admiral. As the book only contains information from 19 BBY to 0 BBY, this information contradicts other sources which place his exploration of the Unknown Regions at a later date and have Thrawn with a lower rank during that time span.
• The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide includes a picture of Thrawn as an Admiral wearing a white Grand Admiral's uniform without epaulets.
• Thrawn received miniatures in Star Wars Miniatures: Universe and Star Wars Miniatures: Imperial Entanglements.
  • Star Wars Miniatures: Universe: He is referred to as a Grand Admiral but the miniature lacks the gold epaulets.
  • Star Wars Miniatures: Imperial Entanglements: His miniature has a Grand Admiral uniform without gold epaulets.
  • Star Wars Miniatures: Imperial Entanglements: Artwork of Thrawn appeared on one of the three types of booster artwork
• The Essential Guide to Warfare seems to think that Thrawn came back in 9 ABY, although he actually came back in 8 ABY.
• The Heir to the Empire Sourcebook has Thrawn only possessing five Star Destroyers, while Warfare has him having twelve, though only six are fully loyal to him.
• Warfare has a total of 287 asteroids, imaginary or real, orbiting Coruscant, while The Last Command has 286 asteroids. This article assumes that Warfare is wrong because it is not the original.
• Ando's entry in TCSWE mistakenly says that Thrawn targeted it to draw Imperial forces away from Ukio, while it was actually intended to draw forces away from Ord Padron(?).
• In Heir to the Empire: The 20th Anniversary Edition, Zahn explains that someone at a convention once remarked that, instead of art, Thrawn might study myths and legends of an alien species to get better insights into their cultural psyche. Zahn objected that it would be a problem for Thrawn because he would have to either read those legends in translation, which might lose key nuances, or spend years learning the required languages. He could, howver, study their artwork directly.

General Discussion

• Please refrain for editing the article just yet. We first need to obtain a game plan, and sort out who is going to do what. 501st dogma^(talk) 19:25, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
  • Please check out Forum:SH:Getting those big articles to status for the latest update. It is important. 501st dogma^(talk) 23:52, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
    • Okay, the first thing I suggest we do is look through the source list on GT's notepad and find the sources he didn't get to (the ones not crossed out), and the ones not on the list entirely. 501st dogma^(talk) 12:49, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
• Here is a list: (I just included the one from the appearances list, since GT did not start on the sources section.)--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 13:44, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • K, thanks. We should sign our names like we did above to see who has what. After we check all of the appearances, and have added the new info to the article, we can check for sources. 501st dogma^(talk) 16:26, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
    • We'll use a forum to request info from sources we don't have. 501st dogma^(talk) 16:58, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
      • I've just made a few notes for the P&T while reading Galaxy of Fear: The Swarm. Can I just put them in the appropriate section yet? --LelalMekha (talk) 21:32, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
        • Could you put them in the above section, where it says P&T notes? That would be great. 501st dogma^(talk) 21:44, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
• Additionally, feel free to check the sources listed in the sources section above, and add any pertinent info you find to the main article. Remember to cross off the source when you have completed that. 501st dogma^(talk) 23:58, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
• Once you checked a source, and either added all pertinent info to the article, or discovered that there isn't any, please cross the source out. 501st dogma^(talk) 14:44, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
• Star Wars: Rebellion
• Star Wars Battlefront: Renegade Squadron (Appears only in non-storyline event)
• Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption (Exiledjedi)
• Crisis of Faith
• "Shadows of Darkness" — Star Wars Adventure Journal 4 (Indirect mention only) (Princess Leia Organa Solo-GLG)
• "Stand at Bhir'khi Pass" — Star Wars Adventure Journal 9 (Mentioned only)
• X-Wing: Isard's Revenge (Mentioned only)
• "Blaze of Glory" — Star Wars Adventure Journal 8 (Mentioned only)
• Children of the Jedi (Mentioned only) (Princess Leia Organa Solo-GLG)
• Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (Mentioned only) (Exiledjedi)
• Crimson Empire III: Empire Lost 2 (Mentioned only) (501st dogma)
• "Red Sky, Blue Flame" — Star Wars Gamer 7 (Mentioned only) (Princess Leia Organa Solo-GLG) (Exiledjedi)
• Survivor's Quest (Mentioned only) (I think there is more information in this book than there is in the article.) Exiledjedi
• Crosscurrent (Mentioned only) (Princess Leia Organa Solo-GLG)
• Riptide (Mentioned only)
• Ascension (Mentioned only)
• "An Apology" (Non-canonical mention)
• X-Wing: Mercy Kill (Mentioned only)

Details from RPG sources

• How detailed information we are going to want from old RPG books? I'm mainly thinking about (random) plot hooks, which are mostly meant to be used freely by GMs. Do we really want to hunt down every single one of those? (Personally I'm mainly thinking for the stuff found in Stock Ships, but I bet there are many other similar things in other books.)--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 21:05, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm not 100% sure, but I think that plot hooks need to be included in a decent amount of detail in featured articles. Here are some examples of how it has been handled in the past: Roark Garnet, Coh Veshiv, and O'reenian. I do not think that there will be too many of these hooks that include Thrawn, but I guess there could be.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 23:24, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Questions

• Does anyone know where 9 ABY starts in the main article? Its not linked to anywhere, and its, according to Warfare, the date when Thrawn makes his presence know to the Moffs, and when he is put in the charge of a fleet that was destroyed at Endor. However, this fleet includes the Chimaera, so the 9 ABY date might be mistaken, and supposed to be 8 ABY. Any thoughts? 501st dogma^(talk) 11:37, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • According to The Essential Reader's Companion, "The search for Killik Twilight" section occurs during 8 ABY. The Essential Atlas places the raid on Obroa-skai at the start of his campaign in 9 ABY. The stuff in between is just Thrawn's plan, so it probably did not occur at a specific time. Since Thrawn is with the Chimaera in Tatooine Ghost, which occurs in 8 ABY, I would think that we could say that the 9 ABY date for his return is a mistake, and add a note to the BTS when we write it. It seems like there is going to be a lot of things for an inconsistencies section.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 20:24, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
    • Added note to BtS section above. 501st dogma^(talk) 00:20, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
      • According to my Timeline of the Galactic Civil War, Tatooine Ghost is in 43:11, just a month before 9 ABY begins (according to the ERC's moving of the ABY year start date), and the first actual battle of the Thrawn campaign is the Raid on Draukyze on 44:2:25, three months later. Not sure if that answers your question, but you might find the Timeline useful. Cade Calrayn 16:46, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
• I've run into another problem. According to this - "The Chimaera was to serve as the flagship and one of five Star Destroyers in Thrawn's armada...", Thrawn has five destroyers. However, Warfare has it as six. Should I add that to the article, and overrule the old info? 501st dogma^(talk) 16:08, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
  • Seems like you can use the Warfare information and perhaps add a BTS note mentioning the discrepancy when we write it.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 20:24, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
    • K, added to article. 501st dogma^(talk) 00:20, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
• All right, The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide says that during the Dark Times "Grand Admiral" Thrawn revolutionized Imperial naval tactics. It also says that he was given command of a large fleet to take over planets in the Unknown Regions by the Emperor when he was an admiral. I believe that the book only contains information from 19 BBY to 0 BBY, so how do we handle these inconsistencies that seem to mention things that happen later?--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 23:25, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
  • I suggest we add a note to the BtS section, and consider that an error. Any other opinions? 501st dogma^(talk) 00:23, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
    • I agree with Dogma. This seems like just one more thing to add to "inconsistencies" (or something) section of the BtS.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 06:18, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
      • I went ahead and added it to the BTS section.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 13:41, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

About 501st Legion

Uhm, this is mostly for you, Dogma. Can we find a way to combine your most resent addition to the article about the 501st Legion with what I just added? The stuff from the Choices of One and how the Hand of Judgment was a major player about the creation of the "new" 501st.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:08, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

• Sure. I just added it where I did because there was no mention of the 501st in the entire article when I did. 501st dogma^(talk) 15:41, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
  • What do you think? Are my recent edits okay? The same info is basically still there.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 16:51, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
    • Looks good. 501st dogma^(talk) 17:18, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
      • Thanks. You know, if we actually get this done one day, we're going to be freaking heroes in my books. Sorting through the inconsistencies and all...--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 17:48, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
        • Not if, but when. :) 501st dogma^(talk) 21:15, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

TCSWE

• We seem to have a bit of a problem with TCSWE, as a lot of entries mention Thrawn besides his own, and we are obliged to check them all for info. Cade was kind enough to use the digitial version to give me the entries names that mentioned Thrawn up to about E, but we will have to obtain the rest, and check them all. Thus, I'm adding a new scroll box for the entries that mention Thrawn. Feel free to strike them off if you check them, or add to it if you find entries that mention him. It seems that the digital version is the best, as it is searchable, but I don't have that one. Does any one here have it? 501st dogma^(talk) 11:45, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

TCSWE entries

Ch'hala tree

There seems to be no mention of the ch'hala tree in the entire article. It is rather important, as it let Thrawn spy on the New Republic's communications. Anyone know where mention of it should go? 501st dogma^(talk) 13:22, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

• I'm not sure when he gained knowledge about the trees; if that is not known I would think that putting it somewhere in the Reemergence section would be best.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 22:29, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
  • Added. 501st dogma^(talk) 19:37, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
• Additionally, TCSWE mentions that Thrawn planted a quartet of clones of Soontir Fel as a sleeper cell on Pakrik Minor. Where should that be place? 501st dogma^(talk) 13:56, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
  • Quartet? There was more than that, according to the novels.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:01, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
    • Wait, there were a quartet of clones from Fel, among others. 501st dogma^(talk) 14:04, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
      • The novel makes it sound like the whole Pakrik Minor group was from Fel, but if a newer source says differently, so be it.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:07, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
        • It gives 4 named Fel clones, and says that they were apart of the sleeper unit. So, there could have been more of them. 501st dogma^(talk) 14:53, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
          • Vision of the Future says the following. First Leia counts a group waiting for them, and it has ten people with four more flying (p.112 on paper back edition). Couple of pages later (p.115, to be exact) the whole group gathers around Leia and Han, and Leia studies their faces. The novel says: "Different clothing, different hairstyles, some with beards or mustaches, here and there a scar— But otherwise identical. Completely identical." Four of them are named, but from that description it sounds like all the others were from Fell, too.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:25, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
            • More inconsistencies... Should we go with the novel since that was the original source with a note in the BTS?--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 22:29, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
            • Let's go with the original. 501st dogma^(talk) 23:35, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
              • Maybe a note to "Notes and references" section is enough. This is not about Thrawn, anyway.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 05:26, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
                • Yeah, you're right.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 17:43, August 10, 2013 (UTC)