Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Voorpee

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Voorpee

  • Nominated by: ProfessorTofty (talk) 23:15, September 23, 2014 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: My first try at a good article nomination. I've checked everything, read it over and all the rules and I think it qualifies, but I guess we'll see.

(1 ACs/3 Users/4 Total)

Support

  1. Manoof (talk) 10:07, February 17, 2015 (UTC)
  2. ACvote IFYLOFD (Talk) 05:22, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
  3. 501st dogma(talk) 16:15, April 12, 2015 (UTC)
  4. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:34, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Object

Ecks Dee
  • Lacks sourcing throughout.
  • Linking really needs to be checked.
    • Still lacking throughout, particularly past the intro.
      • This still isn't fixed. 1358 (Talk) 22:29, October 8, 2014 (UTC)
  • I'll review it again once these glaring issues have been fixed. 1358 (Talk) 20:22, October 4, 2014 (UTC)
    • I have added additional references on Behind the scenes and added what links I could find. There is really only one reference and one appearance for the main content: Jedi Academy: Return of the Padawan. Are you just saying that I should link it in more places? I do seem to recall though reading that it doesn't need to be referenced in the intro. As for the linking, I think that's about all that can be done, unless you believe that certain items mentioned in the article are worthy of their own articles that haven't been created yet. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:43, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
      • You need to source everything. Every paragraph, every infobox item, needs a reference. See other GAs for examples. 1358 (Talk) 08:46, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
  • Please use the same layout for pets as for individuals (see Gor for precedent).
  • References go after punctuation. 1358 (Talk) 14:59, October 7, 2014 (UTC)
    • Done and done. Doesn't really have much in the way of a personality, sort of a Star Wars tribble, but I did what I could. As for the linking, again, I really think that's about all that can be done, unless you think maybe something like Roan's journal or the care center would be article-worthy. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:01, October 8, 2014 (UTC)
      • Still present in the infobox.
  • Please use bullet lists for infobox fields with multiple entries.
  • You don't need to source the name in the infobox.
  • To be honest, I think most of the big glaring issues in this article could be fixed by reading other Good Articles. They should give you a general idea of what a GAN should look like. 1358 (Talk) 22:29, October 8, 2014 (UTC)
    • Objections regarding punctuation and using bullets taken care of. Well, actually, the latter really took care of the former. As for your latter point, I'm looking at Ceasar right now, and it actually seems like you're holding me to a higher standard, as that article has no references or sourcing whatsoever. Anyway, I've answered all of your objections, save the bit about the linking. Again, unless you feel that more links should be added because other subjects are article-worthy, I don't see anything else to be linked. I can't just conjure them. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:34, October 9, 2014 (UTC)
      • Just interjecting here, Ceasar is an anomaly with the lack of sourcing which will be fixed. All GANs need to be sourced. 501st dogma(talk) 22:49, October 9, 2014 (UTC)
      • Actually, Ceasar gets away with that for historical reasons. A year or two ago, articles with a single source didn't require referencing (although it was still recommended), but that was changed a while ago. Thanks to your observation, it'll probably be on the agenda for the next AgriCorps meeting, as it definitely needs to be fully referenced now. However, look at any other GA and you'll see that they're all (hopefully) completely referenced as they should be. As for linking, what I'm trying to say here is that the intro and the body should work independently. That isn't the case right now—if you disregard the intro, the biography starts off completely abruptly. You should make sure to rewrite the beginning of the intro to properly introduce who Voorpee actually is. As for the linking, since the intro and the body are independent from each other, every subject needs to be linked both in the intro and the body. 1358 (Talk) 22:50, October 9, 2014 (UTC)
        • Okay, sorry that I seized on Ceasar (heh), but I was looking for an example of another named pet that was a good article, and that was the one that came up at the top. Anyway, I think I'm really starting to get this now. I've made updates to both the intro and main body and I think, hope, that all problems should be squared away now. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:54, October 12, 2014 (UTC)
  • Does Coruscant really count as homeworld in the infobox if he was only on loan?
  • Is there any sort of timeline given in the source material? If yes, specify. If no, how do we know it's Rise of the Empire era?
  • A lot of things are mentioned in your article with any sort of context. As a general rule, most things require at least some context. I'm just looking at the intro right now, and the first sentence requires context for Coruscant and Roan. Please go over the article and give context to things when they're first mentioned. 1358 (Talk) 20:30, October 16, 2014 (UTC)
    • Regarding the first point-- well, he spent nearly a year there, if not longer, so it really became a sort of home. The article for homeworld states that it could be a world that one migrated to. Still, if you feel it's stretching the point, I could just remove it. Regarding the second question-- yes. In the first book, it is stated that Yoda is 700 years old. So we've sort of been running with that for articles related to the series. In any case, the series does clearly depict a pre-Clone Wars Yoda. I can try to add a more specific citation, though, if you feel one is necessary. (Edit-- never mind, I just went ahead and added the direct reference.) Last point-- all right, that one I'll work on, should have done in a couple days at most. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:31, October 16, 2014 (UTC)
      • I'd say that if he only was on loan there, it's a bit of a stretch to call it a homeworld. It would be another thing if he moved there permanently.
        As for the timeline reference, that's a start, but you definitely need to elaborate more. Something like "In source 1, Yoda is said to be 700 years old. source 2 states Yoda's birth year as X BBY, which means the events of source 1 take place around Y BBY". Don't use my exact wording, but you probably get the concept. 1358 (Talk) 19:17, October 20, 2014 (UTC)
        • Coruscant as homeworld removed per suggestion. Reference regarding Rise of the Empire Era improved to make it clear why that period as specified. I've also added the context requested, explaining more clearly what the Jedi academy at Coruscant was and who the various characters referenced such as Roan and Gaiana were. I hope these will be enough to finally push the article to where it needs to be to achieve status. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:41, October 23, 2014 (UTC)
        • P.S.: I've also added two new images and quotes. ProfessorTofty (talk) 15:02, October 24, 2014 (UTC)
          • While you're getting there, this isn't exactly the context I'm looking for. Generally subjects in the intro need less context than the body. Remember that the body should work independently from the intro, which means you'll need to provide context in both instances. I suggest you move the context on Jedi academy to the body. What I'm looking for is really a word or two explaining subjects you introduce. For example, when you mention Coruscant, tell the reader it's a planet. It's not much, but it's something. Who is Yoda? Tell the reader. 1358 (Talk) 11:28, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
            • Okay. I've gone through the article and I've tried to expand and explain on anything that might require context. I think I've tried to provide a good balance of providing good information without going into too much detail. For example, I'm assuming that I don't need to explain to readers that "the Force" is a field of energy that binds and penetrates the Galaxy, given that, say, Force speed doesn't do so. If there's anything else that needs done, I think I need specifics at this point. Also, I was wondering, do you agree with the recent addition of "Infinities" to the Eras tag for the article? Because, if so, then it applies by extension to every other article in the series. I'd been leaving it out because it was not originally included on the entries for those books, nor is included on articles on subjects for things such as the LEGO Star Wars series. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:59, November 2, 2014 (UTC)
              • Apologies for the delay. The reason why I added the Infinities tag in the eras was because the header template said so, but if it's not explicitly labeled Infinities, then go ahead and remove it.
  • You could probably expand the intro with a short mention of what the bullies did instead of leaving it at a cliffhanger.
  • No timeline established in the body. 1358 (Talk) 19:51, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
    • No biggie about the delay. Thank you for taking the time to review the article again! As for the Infinities thing-- that bit about Infinities always appears on the non-canon template. Personally, I think it needs to be removed or clarified-- "Infinities" is a branding term and not a general purpose catch-all for "non-canon." See this here. Anyway, I went ahead and added a brief bit in the intro explaining the bullying and I've modified the body to more clearly establish a timeline. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:06, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
      • Not quite what I meant in regards to timeline; please see my next objections. 1358 (Talk) 20:16, November 30, 2014 (UTC)
  • The lead quote: The proper plural form of Padawan is Padawans, not Padawan. If this is quoted correctly, please add a [sic] tag in the quote.
  • The biography starts off a bit rushed. You could probably end the sentence after his homeworld and then talk about his loan in the next one. Also see the following objection, which has some relevance for this one.
    • Check your sourcing here. You're currently sourcing the entire first sentence of the bio to the age reference, which is obviously incorrect. Please rectify. Also note that you have two consecutive [1] references in the bio; I believe one of them should simply be removed. As an aside, I believe Naboo's location in the Mid Rim needs a separate source as well. 1358 (Talk) 12:55, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
      • Okay, those objections are handled. Better referencing for the first sentence, source for Mid Rim and no more two consecutive of the same reference. ProfessorTofty (talk) 15:48, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
  • When I said timeline, I was actually talking about the dates that we went over earlier. As it is, the Rise of the Empire era and the nice date reference is exclusive to the infobox. This needs to be in the bio as well. My suggestions is something like "Around 200 years before the Battle of Yavin[date reference goes here], Voorpee was temporarily in loan..."
  • I've added a bunch of {{Fact}} tags to the bio.
    • Number 1: Is it stated in the source that the temple was the Jedi HQ? If not, please find a source.
    • Number 2: Find an appropriate source for rank of Jedi Master. As a side note, I tweaked his context a bit.
    • Number 3: "Powerful" sounds like POV, Unless it's explicitly stated in the source that they were training under powerful Jedi, you should probably remove the word altogether.
      • I feel like the context you added is a bit unnecessary and unrelated to Voorpee. See if something like "and various other Jedi, including Mr. Garfield and Principal Mar. As a side note, should Principal Mar's article be at simply Mar? 1358 (Talk) 12:55, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
        • Regarding the first point, sure. That's done. As for the second, the character is invariably referred to as "Principal Mar." And Mar is currently a disambiguation. Still, if you really feel the article should be at "Mar," then I suppose that could be done and the current contents moved to "Mar (disambiguation)." Though, personally, I think it would be okay, similar to how we list Maul as "Darth Maul" and not simply "Maul." ProfessorTofty (talk) 15:01, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
          • I feel like Mar should indeed be at Mar (principal) or similar. 1358 (Talk) 00:29, December 26, 2014 (UTC)
            • Okay, I'll move it, though I'm still not sure exactly why, given that Maul is "Darth Maul" and not "Maul (darth)." No further objections, then, regarding anything else in the article? ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:57, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
  • You should probably move the "Arriving with the class at the beginning of the school year," to an earlier point as it's a bit confusing when you first talk about Gaiana caring about Voorpee and then suddenly mentioning Voorpee arriving.
  • More to come once these are fixed. You show good persistence in handling objections, keep it up. 1358 (Talk) 20:16, November 30, 2014 (UTC)
    • Oh, no problem. I definitely plan to keep going until we get this done and I think it'll really help me with going ahead with future good or featured articles. Anyway, I just answered one of your objections and have added "[sic]" to the quote. The rest will have to wait until I'm able to consult my copies of the books, probably sometime tomorrow. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:09, December 2, 2014 (UTC)
      • Objections answered, I think. I've referenced Yoda being a Master; that comes straight from the Jedi Academy books. I also added context for them training under "powerful" Jedi, which I believe is fully supported by them training under Masters like Yoda and Mr. Garfield. Other objections handled. The edits did introduce one redlink, Principal Mar, which I believe is permissible under the GA rules, and heck, I'll just go ahead and create the article. ProfessorTofty (talk) 11:28, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
Manoof
  • "Using Force power..." (2nd paragraph) may need to be tweaked. What force power? (force sense?) if we don't know then it should probably just say "Using the Force..." or "Using a Force power..."
    • Since it's not really clear, I changed it to "using a Force power." ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:52, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • "Roan thought that he might have used the Force to figure out what happened." you might want to specify it was Yoda who may have used the force as it is a bit ambiguous.
    • Changed to read "thought that Yoda might have..." ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:52, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • You have a picture of vorpee in gammy's kitchen, but there is no mention of this in the article. I'd recommend removing that image. Manoof (talk) 10:06, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
    • It's the only color image of the character available and the fact that no such scene is described in the book is the reason I specifically put the image in the "Behind the scenes" section and not somewhere in the plot summary or anywhere else like that. But if you absolutely feel it shouldn't be there, I'll remove it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:52, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
      • Personally I'd probably remove one of the last 3 images, the last bit of the article seems image heavy but it's up to you (hence why I've struck this). Manoof (talk) 10:07, February 17, 2015 (UTC)
  • The only issue with the new updates is the mention on voorpee's uncertain fate. To my knowledge, we avoid making any statements of uncertainty like this, in case a later source confirms something different. Unless the book itself states that it is uncertain if the original voorpee is found, I'd recommend removing these mentions. Manoof (talk) 00:23, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
    • Alright, I got rid of that. Thanks for looking it over again! ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:07, July 17, 2015 (UTC)
Floyd
  • I don't think you need the subsections in the bio. When there's only one paragraph for one, you could probably just dump them altogether.
    • Hmm, well, I'm trying to follow standard format, but alright. I removed them. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:50, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
      • Usually for GA-length articles you aren't gonna need them. The bios are going to be short enough that they don't need to be subdivided for readability. IFYLOFD (Talk) 05:22, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
  • Secondly: image placement. I'd advise you take out the last image of Voorpee in the kitchen—such a short article doesn't really need that many images, especially having two right up against each other like that.
    • I still really hate to lose the only color image, but okay, it's done. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:50, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
  • Dump the ampersands, we don't use those.
  • Roan, at least, I know has a last name—use that instead of his first.
    • Feels kinda odd to refer to everyone else by first names but use a last name for just one character, but that's done, except for those instances where I've used his full name. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:50, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
      • Yeah, that's standard procedure. Last names always, except when there are multiple people floating around with the same one. IFYLOFD (Talk) 05:22, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
  • Sorry you had to wait forever for people to review this. This isn't bad for a first go-around, keep at it. IFYLOFD (Talk) 01:59, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
    • No biggie - thank you for reviewing it now! ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:50, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
501st
  • " Roan Novachez, a second year student who had something of a crush on Gaiana, was scared by the bugs, something that she found "cute." " Um, I`m not really seeing how this is necessary in the article. I know Voorpee gets fed bugs, but I still don`t think this is needed. The sentence before it could go too, as it just describes one person`s feelings about the subject, but I`ll leave that up to you.
    • Removed the second sentence, but I think I will keep the first, as it is an example of the reaction the character inspires in other characters.
  • Context for Hoth in the body.
    • Context added. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
      • Can you actually source Hoth as being in the Outer Rim to [1]? 501st dogma(talk) 21:14, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
        • No, good catch. Went ahead and sourced it to the source for that used in the Hoth article. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:44, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • Don`t use contractions such as didn`t and wasn`t in your writing. I see a couple in the body.
    • Personally, I think this is an archaism and there's nothing in either the Layout Guide or the Manual of Style saying not to use them, but okay. I removed them. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
      • Pretty sure that was a rule, but I could be imagining things. 501st dogma(talk) 21:14, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • The pet`s hair color should be mentioned in the P&T.
  • "Novachez, trying to act as if he wasn't bothered, said that they would go do something "fun" instead." This sentence is a bit too play by play for me. Please take it out, as I don't think that it is important.
    • Removed, but modified the previous sentence to state that the chastisement had no effect. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • I notice you use a lot of quotation marks around standard words and phrases in your writing. You can probably remove most of these. For example, you have quotations around cute noises in the P&T, which I'm assuming is from the source. For the "cute noises", you can remove the quotations since the reader knows what you mean by cute noises, and quotations marks don't add anything. On the other hand, for the "walk" part the marks could be kept, because the bullies aren't actually just taking him for a walk. Not sure if that makes sense. 501st dogma(talk) 13:37, April 1, 2015 (UTC)
    • No, I think I get that and I removed the quotation marks around cute noises. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • It looks like you'll have to reload your infobox.
    • Hmm, when did that happen? Ah well. Fixed. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:30, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
  • The Naboo Zoo isn't actually linked to in the body, and is mentioned at the very end of the Bio, which doesn't help explain that it was on loan from the zoo.
    • Added in the body that he was on loan from the Naboo Zoo and linked htat. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:30, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
  • "Voorpee first appeared in Jedi Academy: Return of the Padawan. He is the only pet seen to date in the Jedi Academy series and one of several pet voorpaks within the Star Wars franchise, others being Dotty,[9] Sanani[10] and Taezii.[11]" You're going to need a ref before Dotty, as as it is currently you're sourcing Voorpee appearing in Jedi Academy to SW Galaxies. 501st dogma(talk) 01:24, April 9, 2015 (UTC)
    • Added in a reference to Return of the Padawan to clarify that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:30, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
Ayrehead
  • Your linking is still missing in a few places, e.g male needs to be linked to sexes in the intro and the 200 could probably be linked to 200 BBY. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:47, April 4, 2015 (UTC)
  • I don't think the bio needs a single subtitle since it isn't split into multiple sections. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:47, April 4, 2015 (UTC)
    • Ah, that's a relic from when it was previously split into sections. I removed it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • "a number of Padawans trained here under", is here the correct tense? It sounds weird. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:47, April 4, 2015 (UTC)
    • Pretty sure it's the correct tense. Sounds okay to me. I'm not really sure what else it could be. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
  • Probably a so fix it but shouldn't "rescue a hungry Voorpee" be the hungry Voorpee? Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:47, April 4, 2015 (UTC)
    • I think either might be acceptable, but I decided to go with "rescue the hungry voorpak," which definitely sounds right by my ear. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:09, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Comments

  • Also, just FYI, as this is your first nomination, I'm going to be more "harsh" in my review. Some of the objections are things I'd normally fix in my copy-edit, but it's probably for the better if you go through them and fix the issues so that you know what's expected from a GAN. In addition, it's a good idea to go through the edit history of the article and look at the copy-edits other people do. The changes will give you a good idea of what's expected from a GAN. 1358 (Talk) 11:28, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
  • So I guess Xd and I have sort of been collaborating on this, but seeing as he's just gone away for six months, could someone else come in on this? I think things are close here. As far as I know, all of the outstanding objections have been answered, but if anyone else has any, I'd be happy to fix them. ProfessorTofty (talk) 11:51, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
    • Do not worry, ecks will be here this weekend. I will review this too soon. Winterz (talk) 17:20, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
      • (Totally not late or anything) Unfortunately due to my military service I am unable to continue this review. I've struck my last objection (which I had totally forgotten about, sorry about that). Cheers and good luck with the nomination. 1358 (Talk) 18:09, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
  • It's been a while since there was any reviewing action on this, but at this point, I'm just going to mention that we're now only about two weeks out from the official release of The Phantom Bully and it's been confirmed from the preview on Amazon that Voorpee is, in fact, featured in this book. So I think at this point it may be best to just hold until the full book comes out and I'm able to integrate all the information from it into the article. I have it on pre-order from Barnes & Noble, so I should get it fairly quickly. ProfessorTofty (talk) 01:53, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
    • Article updated to reflect the latest from The Phantom Bully. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:03, July 12, 2015 (UTC)