- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Vizam
- Nominated by: Ayrehead02 (talk) 12:29, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: My first nomination from the films! This might take a while.
(3 ACs/2 Users/5 Total)
Support
- Manoof (talk) 20:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
Assuming the still-pending objections are complied with. Winterz (talk) 02:46, April 19, 2015 (UTC)- Nivlacanator(talk) 04:54, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
- IFYLOFD (Talk) 02:36, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
- grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 15:33, May 28, 2015 (UTC)
Object
Manoof
There's several redirects on the page.- I didn't realise we'd merged those pages, fixed. Ayrehead02 (talk) 12:56, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
A few things missing context - Nikto in the bio (as a species) and Jabba in the infobox (as a hutt) as examples. [User:Manoof|Manoof]] (talk) 12:05, February 21, 2015 (UTC)- Done, although context generally isn't needed for infobox. Ayrehead02 (talk) 12:56, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
Could we get a year for the CCG in the BTS?- Added. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
Just had a look and it appears Vizam is on the cover of Rescue from Jabba's Palace which won't be released till the end of April. I'm not sure if it's ok to add that as an appearance due to his being on the cover, but thought I'd let you know. Manoof (talk) 22:49, February 21, 2015 (UTC)- Is there an alternate cover? The one we have on our article has Kithaba and Pagetti Rook on it with two Gamorreans, but I can't see Vizam anywhere. I'll be certain to check the book once it actually comes out though don't worry. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
Exiled Jedi
You could probably mention in the P&T about him going to watch Oola being devoured by the Rancor.- Added. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
I don't think the movie identifies the pistol as a DL-18.- Referenced to the Rebels visual guide. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
Similarly, are the laser cannon and skiff identified as such in the movie?- Referenced skiff to 100 scenes, as for laser cannon I was just using it as a generic term based on appearance, should I change it to blaster turret or something? Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Hmmm, I'm going to ask around about the laser cannon question.--Exiled Jedi
(Greetings) 20:39, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Hmmm, I'm going to ask around about the laser cannon question.--Exiled Jedi
- Referenced skiff to 100 scenes, as for laser cannon I was just using it as a generic term based on appearance, should I change it to blaster turret or something? Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
Do we know that he was trying to hit Calrissian from the movie?- You see Vizam place the gun, then it cuts to Calrissian and Vizam fires, hitting very close to Calrissian. Given that the other Rebels are all at the complete opposite end of the skiff, Calrissian seems like the only obvious target but I can remove it if that doesn't seem like enough. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
Does Star Wars Costumes: The Original Trilogy provide in-universe information? I want to make sure that the information about his costume isn't all out-of-universe.- This was something I debated with myself for a while. The source is an out of universe description of the costume, but I've included the terms like kimono and tabard as they are more accurate to a source then if I just said shirt, since that would be based on anything other than how it looks. I can change it if you'd prefer but I'm not sure what I'd change it too except for saying something like garments. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- If the source does not use those terms in an in-universe fashion, I do not believe they should be used in the main body. You could mention the specific real-world terms in the BTS though.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 20:39, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Ok, I've moved the clothing entirely to the bts and left it out of the body. Should I still add anything to the body about clothes? It seems redundant given the bts detail.Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:51, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
- If the source does not use those terms in an in-universe fashion, I do not believe they should be used in the main body. You could mention the specific real-world terms in the BTS though.--Exiled Jedi
- This was something I debated with myself for a while. The source is an out of universe description of the costume, but I've included the terms like kimono and tabard as they are more accurate to a source then if I just said shirt, since that would be based on anything other than how it looks. I can change it if you'd prefer but I'm not sure what I'd change it too except for saying something like garments. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure if Aveleyman counts as a reliable source. You can probably include this information if you have the actor information in its own sentence and say something like: "According to the fan website Aveleyman..."- I wouldn't even say that at all, and would look for more reputable sites that mention Paul Weston was Vizam, or autographs in that regard. I don't consider Aveleyman reputable unless it has comparison photos of the actors and characters (wouldn't apply to Vizam). I feel the same with IMDB. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 23:38, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
- All right, if that's the case, then another source should be found.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 23:41, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
- I've changed it to directly mention aveleyman in behind the scenes for now, but if it isn't allowed as a reference at all then quite a few other status articles need to be changed. Spending just a minute or two looking I've already found that Hurst Romodi and Sim Aloo reference Aveleyman and Lorth Needa and Romas Navander reference IMDB. There are also certainly others. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Romodi and Sim's Aveleyman actor pages also have pictures of the actors attributed to playing them, and it is a duck test case with those two. And the IMDB ones should be changed. For both the latter two, I know that there are plenty of other more reputable sites to source that info. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 16:08, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- A quick Google search will show that there are other sites which include Paul Weston autographing pictures of Vizam, those should be used instead of Aveleyman. Please find at least one of those. And the problem with IMDB and Aveleyman is they are both fan-edited and might not always be accurate. Take Bolvan and Hija on Aveleyman. It appears John Forgeham, who was previously thought, and even thought of himself as Hija, was in fact confirmed to be Bolvan, while Hija was in fact played by John Wreford. But Aveleyman says Bolvan was played by David Fennell (don't know how, and failed to see anything outside Aveleyman mentioning that), and still says Forgeham played Hija. As for IMDB, I know in the past it listed Cy Town as a stormtrooper in ANH, when in fact Cy Town was said to have never been a stormtrooper. I see that's no longer there, but what we can clearly see is that unverified info can make it onto both sites. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 16:25, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Upon looking more carefully, it appears here that Paul Weston only mentioned playing Vedain in RotJ, and that was it. It also appears that he's autographed Lathe's CCG card too, but that can't be really him. I'll leave you to interpret that interview, and if you come to the same conclusion that Paul Weston couldn't have been Vizam, please check linking pages to get rid of anything else claiming that to be the case. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 16:36, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Good catch, your definitely right he pretty clear states he didn't play anyone else. I'll remove the info and just leave it as an uncredited extra. Just to be clear I was happy to change the reference from aveley as well, but just wanted to point out that this might be an issue that needs addressing beyond the scope of this nomination. Ayrehead02 (talk) 17:19, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Upon looking more carefully, it appears here that Paul Weston only mentioned playing Vedain in RotJ, and that was it. It also appears that he's autographed Lathe's CCG card too, but that can't be really him. I'll leave you to interpret that interview, and if you come to the same conclusion that Paul Weston couldn't have been Vizam, please check linking pages to get rid of anything else claiming that to be the case. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 16:36, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- A quick Google search will show that there are other sites which include Paul Weston autographing pictures of Vizam, those should be used instead of Aveleyman. Please find at least one of those. And the problem with IMDB and Aveleyman is they are both fan-edited and might not always be accurate. Take Bolvan and Hija on Aveleyman. It appears John Forgeham, who was previously thought, and even thought of himself as Hija, was in fact confirmed to be Bolvan, while Hija was in fact played by John Wreford. But Aveleyman says Bolvan was played by David Fennell (don't know how, and failed to see anything outside Aveleyman mentioning that), and still says Forgeham played Hija. As for IMDB, I know in the past it listed Cy Town as a stormtrooper in ANH, when in fact Cy Town was said to have never been a stormtrooper. I see that's no longer there, but what we can clearly see is that unverified info can make it onto both sites. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 16:25, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Romodi and Sim's Aveleyman actor pages also have pictures of the actors attributed to playing them, and it is a duck test case with those two. And the IMDB ones should be changed. For both the latter two, I know that there are plenty of other more reputable sites to source that info. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 16:08, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- I've changed it to directly mention aveleyman in behind the scenes for now, but if it isn't allowed as a reference at all then quite a few other status articles need to be changed. Spending just a minute or two looking I've already found that Hurst Romodi and Sim Aloo reference Aveleyman and Lorth Needa and Romas Navander reference IMDB. There are also certainly others. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- All right, if that's the case, then another source should be found.--Exiled Jedi
- I wouldn't even say that at all, and would look for more reputable sites that mention Paul Weston was Vizam, or autographs in that regard. I don't consider Aveleyman reputable unless it has comparison photos of the actors and characters (wouldn't apply to Vizam). I feel the same with IMDB. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 23:38, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
Could you add release years for Episode VI and the Decipher set?- Done. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of context in the article than information that pertains to Vizam. I know a lot of this is necessary to knowing what is going on, but think it could be condensed slightly.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 23:36, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
- I've cut down the bit about Boushh, but other than that I'm struggling to find stuff to remove. Are they any other parts in particular you'd cut? Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
- The first paragraph does not really have a lot of information related to the character and could condensed some to just give the important details. The stuff where he is just there watching could probably be pared down slightly as well. my next objection fits into this as well.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 20:39, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Cut down the first paragraph and merged it with the second. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:51, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
- The first paragraph does not really have a lot of information related to the character and could condensed some to just give the important details. The stuff where he is just there watching could probably be pared down slightly as well. my next objection fits into this as well.--Exiled Jedi
- I've cut down the bit about Boushh, but other than that I'm struggling to find stuff to remove. Are they any other parts in particular you'd cut? Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:10, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
There is also a lot of play-by-play information that needs to be cut down. You need to talk about the events related to the character, but the wording should be condensed.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 20:39, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Ok I've severely cut down the body to remove play by play and unnecessary info. Is it better now? Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:51, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Hanzo
I'm going to make a formal preliminary objection to actually look through the pages that link to Vizam and get rid of the misinformation about Paul Weston playing the character. While this might be a sofixit, I have seen in the past you made the mistake of not checking pages linking to Grunda Dolma to make sure there was nothing else mentioning the character's unconfirmed death. This seems to be a common oversight for Wookieepedians, but I think more vigilant measures should be taken when working on an article, particularly one that had unverified info at any point that has the tendency to spread to other articles on the site.Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 01:46, February 23, 2015 (UTC)- Removed it from the Paul Weston page and couldn't find it anywhere else. Also weirdly the Kensaric page claims Weston played that character as well. Ayrehead02 (talk) 02:16, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Okay good. Yeah I worked on the Kensaric article, and I added that thing myself from seeing his autograph. The difference is, though, that Kensaric was among the strike team members who, from what I could tell, was never in the film itself. Thus I find no contradiction with Paul Weston's words that he played no other role in the film. He just simply wore a commando outfit onset, but was never actually filmed in that outfit. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:51, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Removed it from the Paul Weston page and couldn't find it anywhere else. Also weirdly the Kensaric page claims Weston played that character as well. Ayrehead02 (talk) 02:16, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
Floyd
"who chose to move forward and watch the slave girl Oola being eaten by the rancor." I kinda get what you're going for here, but this is worded very awkwardly. What does this say about Vizam's personality?- Reworded. I feel that willingly watching someone get eaten alive definitely says something about your personality, although I didn't want to speculate exactly what since Vizam could be watching eagerly and enjoying it or out of horror but we have no way of knowing. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
Could use a touch more context on Solo/Leia/Luke in the intro - mention that they were Rebels when you first introduce them, and why Han was imprisoned.- Done. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
"when she defied Jabba." How?- Expanded. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
The way you introduce Leia in the body is very backwards. I think you should mention Han first, then mention that Leia is coming to rescue him and that claiming the bounty on Chewie is part of that plot right away.- Reworded it. Although introducing Han first seemed more awkward so I introduce him earlier but still after Leia. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
Is "Jabba's Palace" capitalized that way in any new canon source material? The article's at Jabba's the Hutt's palace.- Fixed. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
Link to the helmsman?- He's Vedain, but given that he hasn't been named in canon yet we can't make an article for him due to our current policy on conjectural canon articles. As soon as he's renamed I'll make the article and add it. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
I actually think the Equipment section could contain some of the info of his uniform that you have in the BtS instead.IFYLOFD (Talk) 04:56, April 30, 2015 (UTC)- I've added a cut down version of the description which doesn't include any of the names of clothing items which haven't been confirmed in universe like Kimono or tabard, since EJ wasn't happy with their use. Ayrehead02 (talk) 08:13, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
Comments
Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 15:33, May 28, 2015 (UTC)
- I've checked through the various behind the scenes books and couldn't find any information pertaining to Vizam. Ayrehead02 (talk) 12:29, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Gender has been left out of the article since I'm not sure if based on current canon information we can tell a Nikto's gender based on appearance. To be honest there's barely even any female Nikto in legends. Ayrehead02 (talk) 12:29, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Updated for Star Wars Costumes: The Original Trilogy. Ayrehead02 (talk) 07:34, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
- That appears to confirm he's male. If so, please update accordingly. If you don't think Phil Tippett's word is solid enough proof, then get rid of the gendered pronouns and either way don't make these careless mistakes again. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 19:30, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
- The text in the book does not refer to Vizam or Wooof specifically as male, always calling the character just "this Nikto" or something similar. The quote given is in reference to the production process of the Nikto and Wooof costumes in general, and so doesn't necessarily show Vizam's gender. Gendered pronouns removed. Ayrehead02 (talk) 23:27, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
- That appears to confirm he's male. If so, please update accordingly. If you don't think Phil Tippett's word is solid enough proof, then get rid of the gendered pronouns and either way don't make these careless mistakes again. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 19:30, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
- Note: After rewatching the intro for the dozenth time I've noticed another appearance which I somehow previously missed and have added it to the bio accordingly. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:09, February 21, 2015 (UTC)