Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Leyli

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Leyli

  • Nominated by: OtterSurf (talk) 16:20, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: This particular Lady deserves some recognition.

(0 ACs/1 Users/1 Total)

Support

  1. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 09:23, November 12, 2019 (UTC)

Object

Imp
  • Full publication date for the comic, please. Imperators II(Talk) 17:19, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
    • Does the comic itself actually provide the full publication date? If not, you should use a source that does. Imperators II(Talk) 18:00, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
      • Dark Horse site. Is there a special citation? OtterSurf (talk) 18:32, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
        • Here is the category for all the Internet citation templates we have. I'd recommend Marvel, though, since they're the license holder for comics now and also have an entry for the comic. Imperators II(Talk) 18:48, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
          • Brilliant! Thanks. OtterSurf (talk) 19:03, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
            • Please reference accurately, nothing about Leyli herself in the BTS can be sourced to the Marvel site, just the date. Imperators II(Talk) 07:51, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
  • {{CSWECite}} should be implemented in the corresponding reference. Imperators II(Talk) 17:19, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
    • OtterSurf, if you're going to nominate articles for status, you need to familiarize yourself with our site's policies governing the composition of those articles. Please read what the Manual of Style has to say about the usage of {{CSWECite}}.Imperators II(Talk) 18:00, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • "Shortly after the Battle of Endor" doesn't necessarily correspond to 4 ABY. Please revise the wording. And please note that references should be written as if they were self-contained micro-articles themselves, so phrasing like "this year" or "after this" should be avoided. Imperators II(Talk) 17:19, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • Context for Rogue Squadron, Vader, Palpatine, Luke, Wedge, please. Imperators II(Talk) 17:19, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • Please link Weir to the Empire and the Empire's "defeat" to the Battle of Endor. Imperators II(Talk) 17:19, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
    • All sorted. OtterSurf (talk) 17:44, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
      • I think you should refer to the Empire as the Galactic Empire upon its first mention. Imperators II(Talk) 18:00, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • Please split up the first sentence of the article's body. As you're doing that, I suggest moving the specific time frame of a week after Endor to where you mention the Rogues' mission, and maybe just leave something general like "during the Galactic Civil War" for the lead sentence that describes Leyli's station. Imperators II(Talk) 07:51, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
  • Please name the writer of the comic in the BTS. Imperators II(Talk) 07:51, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
  • The Marvel link doesn't work. Imperators II(Talk) 07:51, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
    • It only works if I direct it to the main Rogue Leader page, so I've done that. OtterSurf (talk) 08:08, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
      • It also works if you direct it to the specific issue page, but you have failed to follow the instructions on the citation template's documentation page. Imperators II(Talk) 08:49, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
        • I've followed the instructions and it still won't work. OtterSurf (talk) 09:50, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
        • Nevermind, fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 09:55, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
          • Good. Now the backup link should also point to an archived version of the specific issue page. Imperators II(Talk) 09:56, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
  • The actual title of the Marvel product page should be presented in the template, as opposed to your own description. Imperators II(Talk) 07:51, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
Anil
  • Please follow the instructions in the Layout Guide for the article's sections. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 21:24, September 20, 2019 (UTC)
    • Uuuurrrgh. Fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 08:15, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
      • Isn't Leyli shown wearing any particular clothing? If so, that would warrant an Equipment section. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 10:58, September 21, 2019 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • After looking at the comic, I find the infobox image to be a poor crop. It unnecessarily cuts off part of her fur on the left side of the panel, presumably because the artist illustrated the character partially outside of the comic panel itself (you'll see what I mean if you look at the comic), so the original uploader thought it needed to be cut there, but it doesn't. The image would look much better without any portion being cut off. Please reupload with the appropriate cropping. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:59, September 30, 2019 (UTC)
    • Done. The image is a bit smaller, but it's the best I could get (I cropped from a hi-res source). OtterSurf (talk) 08:49, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
    • Nevermind, replaced with enlarged version. I used Bicubic Smooth to get the optimum result. OtterSurf (talk) 08:57, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
      • The new version you've uploaded is of remarkably lower resolution than the original. You need to reupload it in superior digital quality. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:52, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
        • I take it you mean from a digital copy of the comic? OtterSurf (talk) 20:29, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
          • GAN Rule 14: "...include a reasonable number of images of the highest quality to illustrate the article, as source availability permits." In 2019, you should never be uploading a comic image that doesn't come up from a digital version, except in the exceedingly rare cases where no digital version exists. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:31, October 1, 2019 (UTC)
            • Done! OtterSurf (talk) 17:26, October 3, 2019 (UTC)
            • I've chosen my fave pic of Leyli for the infobox. Just trying a little something. OtterSurf (talk) 17:38, October 3, 2019 (UTC)
              • Before we proceed, would you mind telling me where you found these digital images? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:20, October 5, 2019 (UTC)
                • Purchased the comic on Comixology. OtterSurf (talk) 18:26, October 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • Regarding the main image, it would look far less distracting if you whitened out the cut-off portion of whoever that is on the left edge of the picture. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:30, December 17, 2019 (UTC)
    • That's Luke Skywalker's hair. I can crop it out while just keeping all of Leyli in. That okay? OtterSurf (talk) 20:19, December 17, 2019 (UTC)
      • That's impossible, since some of Luke's hair overlaps on the same vertical plane as the left edge of Leyli, meaning you would be cropping part of her out with it. Not to mention the image would then be asymmetrical in terms of border space on each side of Leyli, which would be unsightly. What I explained in my objection is the only feasible course. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:22, December 17, 2019 (UTC)
        • I'll get on it ASAP. OtterSurf (talk) 20:43, December 17, 2019 (UTC)
        • Done. OtterSurf (talk) 21:25, December 17, 2019 (UTC)
          • Much better. Sorry to send you back in one more time (I just noticed this now), but you should also be able to very easily blacken out the pointing portion of the speech bubble at the bottom of the picture inside her collar area. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:28, December 17, 2019 (UTC)
  • For the main quote attribution, check the comic again—she's not speaking to Luke at that moment. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:20, December 20, 2019 (UTC)
    • How the hell did I miss that? Fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 08:24, December 20, 2019 (UTC)
      • I've modified the quotes in the article to how I believe they're most effective. It was easier to change them and display rather than try to explain all of that. You're welcome to comment, of course. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:43, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
  • It's quite a notable thing for CSWE to say that Leyli serves the "Queen of Tralus," considering that all other sources to deal with the subject of Selonian queens seem to suggest that there are multiple queens, namely one per den. For there to be one Queen of Tralus is significant, and it would be appropriate for us to devote an article for this queen. Therefore, you should create an article for the Queen of Tralus so that this article can link to it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:52, January 1, 2020 (UTC)
  • "StarWars.com" is not a source. You will need to refer to something more specific in reference 2. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:38, January 26, 2020 (UTC)
    • Fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 14:00, January 27, 2020 (UTC)
      • It's preferable to use the most recent source possible, compared to NEGTC, which came out in 2002. I'll let you find the correct information from StarWars.com. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 06:21, January 31, 2020 (UTC)
        • Done, though the archive link is proving problematic. Hopefully I'll have it sorted soon. OtterSurf (talk) 10:53, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
        • No, Wayback Machine is not playing ball right now. If anyone else can have more luck, they're welcome to try. OtterSurf (talk) 11:06, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
        • Culator fixed the archive link, so it's fine now. OtterSurf (talk) 17:09, February 10, 2020 (UTC)
          • Nope. "Star Wars Databank" isn't a source either. You will need to refer to something more specific. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 14:14, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
            • Like what? OtterSurf (talk) 16:44, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
              • I'm not going to fix your problems for you, because then you'll never learn how to do anything and then I'm just writing your article for you. However, I will give you guidance and pointers, but you need to figure things out for yourself. The best way to learn how to do something on Wookieepedia is look at how other articles do it and then just follow suit. We have a couple thousand status articles to model your nominations after. Here's your tip: You will never find an article on Wookieepedia sourcing a sentence or any bit of information to "Star Wars Databank." You tell me what it needs. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:49, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
                • Ah. I see. Hopefully that's fixed it. OtterSurf (talk) 19:39, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
                • No, wait, it hasn't. Can I not just use the New Essential Guide to Characters? OtterSurf (talk) 19:41, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
                • I've used TNEGTC. It's a valid source snd one that I can vouch for. OtterSurf (talk) 20:24, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
                  • Please refer to my comment/objection from 06:21, January 31, 2020. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:29, February 18, 2020 (UTC)
                    • Other GAs such as Yarael Poof use a relevant version of the Databank. I don't see what's wrong with me using it. Besides, all sources dealing with Luke's height use the same height. OtterSurf (talk) 13:06, February 24, 2020 (UTC)
                      • "Use a relevant version of the Databank" is exactly the point of this objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:31, February 24, 2020 (UTC)
                        • Thank you! I'll get right on it. OtterSurf (talk) 19:00, February 24, 2020 (UTC)
                        • Done! Used the Encyclopedia since it's the most recent Legends version of the Databank. OtterSurf (talk) 10:09, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                          • Not done. The Luke Skywalker Encyclopedia entry alone cannot be used to source Leyli's height in the infobox. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 13:31, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                            • Yeah, I'll sort out a note for the infobox. Good to hear I found the right source. OtterSurf (talk) 13:38, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                            • Done. OtterSurf (talk) 13:45, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                              • Nope. You're right back where you were before. "Use a relevant version of the Encyclopedia." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 15:28, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                                • This has to be it. Done? OtterSurf (talk) 20:32, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                                  • Nope. "The Encyclopedia" is not a source. And I don't know why you went back to the Databank template. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:36, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                                    • I thought this was the Databank from 2011, whivh was the most recent version? OtterSurf (talk) 20:46, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                                      • I don't know what else to say for you at this point. I feel that I've done everything I can to help steer you in the right direction, short of fixing this objection for you outright, which as I've stated I'm not going to do. This is a matter of constructing the most basic of reference notes, and you are utterly lost, literally going round in circles with this. If you're unable to formulate a simple reference note, you can't be expected to follow an article nomination through to successful completion. I'm going to give you until tomorrow to use the tips I've provided for you already to resolve this objection, or else I'm going to seek its removal on the grounds that you are unable to complete this nomination. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:09, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                                        • I don't know what "information" I'm even supposed to be looking for. Each source I've looked over states that Luke's height is 1.72 meters. Most of them have been part of the Legends timeline, and I don't see why any of them are invalid. If a source states a fact, then it's usable, surely? The NEGTC is from 2002, sure, but it states a fact that has gone unchanged over time. As far as the Starwars.com thing goes, I've gone through both the Encyclopedia and the Databank several times, and none of the entries I've found are apparently viable. So what is? I've worked so hard on this nomination and I can't believe it's going to get canned over this point. OtterSurf (talk) 21:44, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
                                        • I've used the Databank entry for Luke Skywalker from 2011 and updated the reference note accordingly. I don't know what else I'm supposed to use. OtterSurf (talk) 21:50, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
Spooky
  • Add context for Tralus.
  • I see usage of pronouns throughout the article, but it doesn't appear explicitly say she is female within the article body.
  • "She expressed her fear of the Sith Lord Darth Vader and Galactic Emperor Palpatine; initially doubting Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker's reports of Vader's death and the Empire's defeat at Endor, she was convinced by his assurances and, to avoid fear and panic in the community, Leyli decided to keep her queen out of the loop until the Rebels had defeated Weir." - I feel like that's a rather run-on sentence, and could be split.
  • "traveled to Tralus in hot pursuit of Galactic Empire General Weir" I believe it would be better to say 'the Galactic Empire's General Weir' or 'Imperial General Weir', for grammar purposes.User:Spookywilloww/Sig2 21:51, October 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • Can you implement {{Imagecat}}?
  • I believe that her cape was high-collared should be mentioned. And, that Leyli had paler fur markings around her eyes.
  • I don't think Corellia and Tralus being planets can be sourced just to the comic, and will likely need a separate reference notes. Tralus additionally needs context.—spookywillowwtalk 15:40, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
    • The attack at Corellia is described as being on the planet, and Tralus' surface is mentioned. I know that could still mean "moon" as opposed to "planet", but wouldn't that count? OtterSurf (talk) 18:08, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
    • Just in case that's a no, I've used the Atlas, which lists them both as planets in the same system, backing up Tralus's qualifier of "nearby". OtterSurf (talk) 18:13, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
      • Yeah, that's what I meant. Could just be a terrestrial astronomical object in some cases, after all.—spookywillowwtalk 02:05, January 26, 2020 (UTC)
QGJ
  • The date should be mentioned in the intro as well.
  • who had attacked nearby Corellia Do we have an article for that attack?
  • Leyli informed Skywalker and Rogue Squadron leader Wedge Antilles of the location of Weir's base, where he was holding Numb. So, she knew that a Rebel pilot was being held prisoner on her planet? I think it's important to establish this fact earlier in the bio.
  • The intro states that she "assisted" Rogue Squadron in locating a "hidden" Imperial base, which makes it sound as if she actively participated in the search for the base alongside the Rogues. Contrast this with the bio, in which her only contribution is telling them outright about the base. Also, the bio doesn't establish that the base was "hidden," so it leaves the impression that its existence was common knowledge.
  • Main image currently violates Site policy regarding speech bubbles. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:12, October 7, 2019 (UTC)
  • Leyli decided to keep her queen out of the loop. That is a rather colloquial expression, IMO. Can you reword this to sound more formal and encyclopedic?
  • The biography right now lacks any resolution to the conflict presented therein. I'd like to see one more sentence regarding Numb's final fate.
  • Leyli stood at a much taller height than Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antilles. I think it's feasible to list Luke's and Wedge's exact height here, based on other sources. The height field can also be added to the infobox, saying "Over X meters," with a ref note explaining how this info was derived.
  • When you list her attire in "Equipment," it's best to establish the exact timeframe when she wore those clothes. Right now, it sounds as if she wore the same dress all the time, which is quite unlikely. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 14:47, November 4, 2019 (UTC)
Zed
  • Aside from the panel borders/quality, I feel like the former infobox image was better than the new one. It shows Leyli from the front and isn't obstructed by a speech bubble. Zed42 (talk) 22:03, October 11, 2019 (UTC)
    • Sorry, I prefer the replacement. OtterSurf (talk) 08:08, October 12, 2019 (UTC)
      • To respond to this, since this was the same objection I was going to leave myself, I've talked with another AC member, and we agree that the original infobox image is best, for three reasons: 1) It shows her face head-on; 2) There are no distracting speech bubbles in the middle of her head; and 3) It actually shows her entire head and face, not cut off by the comic panel. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:46, October 18, 2019 (UTC)
        • I strongly disagree with this decision and I think my preferred infobox image is much better. Nevertheless, seeing as moaning about it is going to get me nowhere on the issue, I have complied. OtterSurf (talk) 20:07, October 18, 2019 (UTC)
UberSoldat
  • Image shouldn't be moving the heading below. either moving it above or resizing it should resolve the issue.
    • Tweaked and fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 13:23, February 10, 2020 (UTC)
  • For the height, you can just say she was taller than 1.72m instead of stating Luke and Wedge's heights separately. This will also require a ref note explanation of its own. UberSoldat93 (talk) 21:06, February 7, 2020 (UTC)
    • I think including both heights makes the article more comprehensive, so I don't really see a need to change that. OtterSurf (talk) 13:23, February 10, 2020 (UTC)
    • Done. OtterSurf (talk) 17:07, February 10, 2020 (UTC)
Culator
  • Not an objection, just an FYI: You were using the exact wrong Databank templates. {{Databank}} is for Canon articles. Use {{DB}} for EU articles. I fixed this for you, including archive links, but be mindful in the future. Also, using colons in ref links screws up various javascript-based tools, so you should avoid them as a courtesy to other editors.
  • Is an objection: Going to have to concur with UberSoldat93, including Wedge's height is redundant. Plus a ref note explanation is needed for the infobox. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 14:55, February 10, 2020 (UTC)
    • Done. I've marked it off above as well. OtterSurf (talk) 17:07, February 10, 2020 (UTC)

Comments

Vote to remove nomination (AC only)

  1. ACvote I'm initiating a removal vote on this nomination on the grounds that the nominator is unable to see this nomination through to completion, per the unresolved-objection discussion held above. I believe the nominator has undoubtedly proven incapable of properly referencing this article, which is the most basic tenet of article construction. Self-sufficiency is a requirement of the article-nomination processes, which is to say that the peer-review system is not here for reviewers to write and construct articles for nominators who don't know how to or can't do it themselves. Speaking directly to the nominator, I believe there is more to say to you regarding this matter for which I don't think this nomination page is the appropriate forum, so I encourage you to come onto our IRC channel if you wish to discuss this with the AgriCorps in a group setting. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 14:51, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Imperators II(Talk) 14:51, February 26, 2020 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:52, February 26, 2020 (UTC)