Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Ginder (second nomination)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Ginder

  • Nominated by: OtterSurf (talk) 12:22, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:

(2 ACs/2 Users/4 Total)

(Votes required: 1 AC vote(s) required to reach minimum. No additional votes required to pass, please consider reviewing another article.)

Support

  1. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 09:57, May 26, 2020 (UTC)
  2. ACvote UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 13:13, July 6, 2020 (UTC)
  3. JediMasterMacaroniAdmiral Ackbar RH(Talk) 04:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
  4. ACvote MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 21:51, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Object

Imp
  • Publication date. Imperators II(Talk) 14:05, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
  • Implement {{WizardsCite}}. Imperators II(Talk) 14:05, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
    • Done. OtterSurf (talk) 18:27, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
      • In the reference, too. And move what you have under Sources to Appearances and remove the Sources section. Imperators II(Talk) 08:45, May 13, 2020 (UTC)
  • What evidence is there for placing the subject in the Rise of the Empire era? Imperators II(Talk) 14:05, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
    • The supplement outright states that it takes place then. OtterSurf (talk) 18:37, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
      • That may be, but the article needs to provide in-universe reasoning for that in the body. Imperators II(Talk) 08:45, May 13, 2020 (UTC)
        • Having re-checked the supplement, it actually states that Head Trip can take place in any era, so I'm now not sure the eras field even applies. OtterSurf (talk) 09:22, May 13, 2020 (UTC)
        • Never mind, fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 11:51, May 18, 2020 (UTC)
          • What you have there right now makes no sense. The adventure is explicitly set in the Rise of the Empire era, which is set between 1000 BBY and 0 BBY, so you can work from that. Is the Galactic Republic mentioned as existing in the adventure? If so, that narrows it down to 1000 BBY and 19 BBY. I believe the Living Force Campaign Guide also establishes a date for the colonization of the Cularin system, so that can be used as another boundary for the date range. And then you should try and determine whether the adventure ties in any way with the events of the Living Force campaign, which may tie down the events to before, during, or after 31 BBY. Imperators II(Talk) 17:43, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
            • Just reread the supplement, and I quote: "Note that while Head Trip takes place in the setting established in The Living Force Campaign Guide, the events, places, and individuals in this adventure don't come from the RPGA's Living Force campaign. The Cularin system holds a wealth of possibilities for exciting adventures, and Gamemasters shouldn't feel constrained by the Living Force campaign when designing their own home games. Head Trip is an example of how to put your own spin on the setting". So does that mean the era field doesn't even apply here, or what? OtterSurf (talk) 18:27, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
              • It does apply. Per the first sentence you quoted, I believe we can safely assume that the events of the adventure take place concurrently with the events of the Living Force. Take the date from the Living Force Campaign Guide and use it with "around." Imperators II(Talk) 18:38, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
                • Great. Done. OtterSurf (talk) 18:43, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
                  • The current ref note erroneously uses 32 BBY, not 31 BBY, and it doesn't mention the adventure at all. Imperators II(Talk) 07:51, May 26, 2020 (UTC)
  • The Essential Atlas does not mention Genarius, please revise your referencing. Imperators II(Talk) 14:05, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
    • Corrected. OtterSurf (talk) 18:27, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
      • That is not what you had to do, OtterSurf. Take a look at the articles you've previously brought to status to see what needs to be put there. Imperators II(Talk) 08:45, May 13, 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm seeing an error in the lead quote, so correct that and go through all the others and check them, too. Imperators II(Talk) 14:10, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
  • Our article for the droid model is named incorrectly, that needs to be corrected. Imperators II(Talk) 14:10, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
  • Please split up the largest paragraph of the article and add an image. Imperators II(Talk) 14:12, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
    • Paragraph split. What image can I use, though? Head Trip doesn't provide any. OtterSurf (talk) 18:27, May 12, 2020 (UTC)
      • You can use images of related subjects from other sources. For example, we have an image of Genarius. Imperators II(Talk) 08:45, May 13, 2020 (UTC)
UberSoldat
  • If the Bimm are a furred species, then specifying this in the article for a single Bimm is unnecessary. It's like saying Chewbacca was a hairy Wookiee.
    • Bimms come in two flavours: furry and humanoid. I have removed a redundant mention of it, though. OtterSurf (talk) 11:23, May 18, 2020 (UTC)
  • Attire goes into Equipment, not P&T.
  • Reviewing note: Equipment always goes under the P&T, and below Skills if present. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 09:31, May 18, 2020 (UTC)
  • Species comes before gender. Please reflect this in the article. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 12:08, July 6, 2020 (UTC)
  • The intro can be expanded slightly with more details on the events surrounding the head.
    • Added info about the cantina fight. OtterSurf (talk) 12:43, July 6, 2020 (UTC)
  • Does the source italicize "Falling Rodian"?
  • If a subject only has one appearance, then saying "first appeared" is unnecessary. See the recent EC meeting log for more details.
    • Done. Also reflected in the BTS. OtterSurf (talk) 12:31, July 6, 2020 (UTC)
      • Umm, you did not need to remove "1st" from Appearances, that was only for the BTS. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 12:47, July 6, 2020 (UTC)
  • Per precedent, you need to state that the article assumes the adventure plays out as described in the source. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 12:19, July 6, 2020 (UTC)
QGJ
  • Reference 2 provides a firm date for the adventure. This date is not present in the article itself. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:04, May 25, 2020 (UTC)
Tommy
  • Preliminaries:
    • Please implement an Oxford comma.
      • Done, I think. OtterSurf (talk) 15:54, June 8, 2020 (UTC)
        • No you haven't. Please take some time to research what an Oxford comma is and try again. The MoS would be a good place to start, although the first page of a google search of that term also explains it well.
          • I know what it is, thank you. I'm not sure where it applies here. I'll take another look. OtterSurf (talk) 08:58, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
          • Done. I've put it after "muzzle". OtterSurf (talk) 09:22, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
    • Please make the formatting of Head Trip consistent.
      • Done. OtterSurf (talk) 15:58, June 8, 2020 (UTC)
        • No you haven't. Sometimes it is italicised, sometimes it is in quotes. Which is correct? And I have no idea why you've removed the template from ref 2.
    • File links in the body should be formatted "file:name | thumb | location | size | caption."
      • Size? OtterSurf (talk) 15:54, June 8, 2020 (UTC)
        • Yes, that's what's missing. Please specify it.
    • Please implement &mdash; instead of —.
    • Watch out for formatting issues like double spaces. Tommy-Macaroni 18:11, June 6, 2020 (UTC)
      • I've been over the article with a fine tooth comb and can't find that. Where is it? OtterSurf (talk) 15:54, June 8, 2020 (UTC)
        • Yeah, I doubt that. You have two instances of double spaces in this article which can be easily found by using ctrl+f or your computer's equivalent. These are very simple objections Otter, they shouldn't be requiring this much effort from either of us. Tommy-Macaroni 22:04, June 8, 2020 (UTC)
          • I don't have that option available since I'm on an Android phone. This would move a lot faster if you just told me where the double spaces are. As above, I'll check again. OtterSurf (talk) 08:58, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
            • I appreciate the difficulty of you being on mobile, and that you may not have any choice in the matter, but I'm afraid this really isn't ideal for article nominations. I can see just from my previous objections here that you being on a phone has made addressing these far more difficult than they ought to be, and I'm afraid this will make nominations more lengthy and difficult for both you and reviewers. But regardless, while I could tell you were they are, that doesn't help you become a better writer for future projects. According to these two pages, a version of ctrl+f is available on android. Please do some research into this, as find text is an invaluable tool in article writing you really need to know how to perform. Tommy-Macaroni 12:02, June 9, 2020 (UTC)
              • Alright. Done that. Chrome tells me that there's only one double space in the article, but won't show me where it is. A visual scan of the marked page shows only single spaces. I'm starting to find this extremely frustrating. OtterSurf (talk) 12:43, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
                • Yeah don't get sassy with me, you chose to nominate this article on mobile and the restrictions that come with it, so you really shouldn't be surprised at the fact that you have to find ways to work around those restrictions. Now, I can assure you there are two instances of double spaces in the article. If Chrome isn't working properly, have you tried copy-pasting the contents of the article into another app, one with a better find text feature, or even better, a find and replace tool? I sympathise with the restrictions of mobile but, to be blunt, you don't seem to be trying very hard to find alternative solutions to those restrictions. You are a regular article nominator, so you knowing how to perform a text search is imperative. I can guarantee you will need to do so for future nominations. And yes, I could tell you where the double spaces are, that does nothing to help you as a writer. Self-sufficiency is a requirement of nominating, and it is not the job of reviewers to construct and modify articles for nominators who don't know how to or can't do it themselves. Your nomination is your responsibility. So, instead of complaining about my objection, please put some effort in and find a way for you to access a text search. Tommy-Macaroni 13:58, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
                  • Uh, I'm not getting sassy with you. Think you misread my comment. Anyway, I've run the text of the article through a double-space removal tool. All double spaces should be absent now. OtterSurf (talk) 15:35, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
Anil
  • There are at least two links that are not formatted properly.
    • Fixed. The Wizards one might still need doing, though. OtterSurf (talk) 15:38, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
      • Yes, there's another one in that Wizards reference note. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 15:48, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
        • I meant the WOTC pipelink. Fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 16:55, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
          • No, the one you've just changed was actually properly formatted before you changed it. I'm talking about the one in the reference note #2. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 17:27, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
            • Ah. Well, now it's fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 18:39, June 12, 2020 (UTC)
  • Please fix the placement of quotation marks in BTS, per this item of the Manual of Style: "Per standards of American English, double quotation marks (" ") should be used and the period (full stop), comma, question and exclamation marks should be within the quotation."
  • As far as I can see, Cularin system's criminal organization has its own article, which should be linked in this article. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 14:33, June 11, 2020 (UTC)
Ecks
  • While the order is different, the wording is essentially identical in the intro and the body: "while going through a shipment of scrap, Ginder came across the head of an L8O-series protocol droid." vs "Ginder came across the head of an L8O-series protocol droid, L8O-RC, while going through a shipment of scrap" Can we get some variation here please?
  • Are all Bimms furred? If so, is it really necessary to emphasize him being furred in the intro and the bio? 1358 (Talk) 15:26, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
  • "And the some other guys start following me" The Bio quote doesn't appear to be right, is that a typo or should it come with a [sic]? 1358 (Talk) 10:43, 21 March 2021 (UTC),
    • No, I just missed out a letter. Fixed. OtterSurf (talk) 13:06, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Fred strikes back
  • You should mention that the soldiers and thugs are rivals.
  • You should mention that the third group following Ginder was unbeknownst to him.
  • You should mention that Ginder belongs to the more mammalian of the Bimm races. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 17:18, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
    • Both Bimm species are mammalian, so I'm not sure what you're asking for there. I've already stated in both intro and body that he was furred. OtterSurf (talk) 10:58, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
      • I'll be honest, I re-read the article, and I have no idea what this was about. I'll chalk it up to me reviewing it way past my bedtime and being slightly delirious. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 07:20, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
        • Heh, no problem mate. :D OtterSurf (talk) 12:45, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
  • It should state that Ginder's call for help was urgent. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 23:13, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
OOM
Scene 1
  • Intro as well as body should clearly establish the cantina's location.
  • I don't think "orbiting" is the right word here. The source itself says that Tolea Biqua was a floating cloud city within the gas giant Genarius.
  • Should specify that both the trousers and the jacket were yellow in colour.
  • Missing info: the players wait for "half an hour or so" before Ginder "bustles in, a package wrapped in brownpaper under his arm. He looks around frantically. When he spots you, he visibly relaxes and makes a beeline to you […] placing his parcel on the table with a heavy thump." Ginder then goes on to say the quote in the P&T section; the article should summarise that quote in the "Biography" section.
  • Missing info: Ginder then says that he has to leave Genarius by whatever means necessary, and pleads for the freelancers to help him get rid of the head.
  • Should specify that the protocol droid's head was deactivated when Ginder brought it to the freelancers.
  • Missing info: Ginder then allows the freelancers to "get a good look at the head" and summarises the events surrounding himself and the droid head, including the quote under "Biography," which should be summarised in the article body itself. Right after that quote, he says: "I don't want to just dump it in an alley, either" and then "pushes the droid head across the table to the heroes," so that should be added to the article too.
  • Also: "Ginder is adamant about giving the droid head to the heroes. He doesn’t want to give it to either group of “guys.” He can't abandon it, as he fears that his pursuers will still come after him." OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 21:13, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Scene 2 and other objections
  • Okay, I'm not going to provide all the information you need here. There's too much missing info that you'll have to go over the source for. For Scene 2, please detail the soldiers spotting the droid head and their discussion with the freelancers as well as Ginder. Nothing else from the other scenes.
  • All the new info should necessitate new section(s) and new quotes under them
  • I'd like you to mention that Ginder is pronounced with a hard "G"
  • Ginder's occupations can be mentioned in the Skills and abilities section
  • Per precedent, simply "Basic" would do in the P&T section. Also, the source doesn't actually say that Ginder was not literate in Basic. It only says that he could speak it, so only that part is needed. OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 21:38, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments

Vote to remove nomination (AC only)

  1. ACvote Unaddressed objections from me over ten days old, but really that's beside the point; there is simply a ridiculous amount of missing information here. As it stands, the article is not fit for nomination. A whole lot more effort be put into prospective status articles before the nomination process. OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 17:47, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  2. ACvote MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 18:11, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  3. ACvote UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 18:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)