Talk: Palpatine/Legends/Archive6

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Lucas Audio Commentary

I was listening to the audio commentary on the Revenge of the Sith DVD, and during the Mace-Palpatine duel, Lucas comments on how Palpatine was pretending to be weak - now I'm not trying to start a debate here, I have my own personal feelings regarding the matter, but what do you guys think? -Danik Kreldin 17:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

• Well, the fact that he was able to hurl lightning at Windu after his hand was cut off is pretty telling in of itself. -- SFH 20:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • So many people are dead-set convinced that Palpatine was genuinely begging for his life, though, and really was weak - so I'm seeing how they would respond to this. -Danik Kreldin 20:15, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
    • He plants the seeds of distrust of the Jedi in Anakin's mind and appears weak before him. It's all a part of Palpatine's plan. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:17, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Well, I fully agree. I knew from the start Palpatine was just playing Mace - but my point is, even today, there are still people who refuse to accept the truth, in face of volumes of evidence, and it pisses me off to no end. -Danik Kreldin 20:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Hey, it's their problem, not yours. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
          • Plus, we know it's true. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:43, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
            • Yeah, Palpatine wasn't weak, he was playing on Anakin's conflicted mind. The lightsaber energy mixing with the lightning may have screwed up his face, but he sure wasn't weak.

I don't understand why some are reverting the article - George Lucas himself clearly states Palpatine was pretending. It's not a contested issue - give it up. --Danik Kreldin 20:33, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• OMG ... u must listen correctly. Lucas said: "This scene always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine". And, it is also said that the scene where palp pretends to lose his power was added later. The Producer on disk 2 said "They want to see who is stronger of them" (or something like that). Besides, u can read the following thread: http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=207450&start=0 . There are also the facts. And there is no quote of any important star wars person who said palpatine faked the duel. instead, he lost the lightsaber duel. it's never ever being sad he faked the duel ... cause he lost.
  • I've seen a lot of quotes thrown around on this from Lucas and other people on both sides. None of them convince me absolutely one way or another. I think the article as it stands reflects that ambiguity and is NPOV. Yrfeloran 20:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
    • The point is, he wasn't overpowered. He wanted Anakin to think that he was weak, which he wasn't. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
      • For the anonymous user above: Lucas: This sequence was uh always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers trying to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it was awlays was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose hisp ower and be weak was something that I added later.. Lucas's exact words. Anyone with the DVD can listen to it. --Danik Kreldin 20:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
        • There. Debate over. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
          • Also, just a few minutes after that scene, Lucas states this in the commentary: The killing of Mace... He was trying to stop him from killing Palpatine.. which in essence was the right thing to do.. he didn't realize Palpatine was going to kill him.. Wow, Palpatine was going to kill Mace. --Danik Kreldin 20:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
            • Why wouldn't he. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
              • Eh, Debate is not over. There's nothing to say that Palpatine threw the lightsaber duel, only that he was pretending to be weaker than he was once he was disarmed and throwing lightning around. As opposed to the changes I was objecting to, where you say that Palpatine getting disarmed was part of his plot, and Palpatine was pretending the whole battle, which is not supported. (Lucas does say that Mace overpowers Palpatine in the same quote). The second quote is obviously saying that Anakin didn't realize that Palpatine was going to kill Mace after Anakin intervened on Palpatine's behalf. It's not saying that Palpatine was going to kill Mace anyway, only that Palpatine killed Mace once Anakin intervened and disarmed him. Yrfeloran 21:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
                • The way I see it, this debate is over. Lucas said it himself that he made Palpatine act and look weak. This was all a plot to make Anakin his apprentice. Maybe the fact that his lightsaber was thrown out of the window wasn't in his plot, or maybe it was. Palpatine was disarmed, which meant Anakin probably saw Windu trying to assassinate a disarmed enemy, which would not be right by any means. Then, the obviously not weak Palpatine shoots Force lightning at Windu. There's no way he was weak throughout all of that. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 22:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
• Wanna ignore George Lucas, heh? Well - fine. The debates not over. The quotes are stating this. And when u're not sure, read the thread I wrote above. (but - caution! there are more than 400 pages ... ). And, come on, even Palps cannot "forsee" that somebody would kick him in his face in the right moment. This is ridiculous! And the Producer said in a special disk 2 scene, both of them wanted to see who is stronger. And Mace won the lightsaber duel because of his incredible fighting skills. And, plz, no "palpatine plans this and that..." bla bla. Nobody can forsee everything. Example: He doesn't forsee Anakin to be in a machine, does he? After the duel with yoda, he only forsees that he's in danger. thats it.
  • Maybe so, but this was a ruse to draw Anakin over to the dark side. You have to admit that you know that. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 22:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
    • That's irrelevant. We're talking about the lightsaber duel. And u should know, that Palps lost it. And it makes sense. Everything makes sense; George also said: "Only Yoda and Mace can compete with the Emperor." So, what's ur problem? That he lost a lightsaber duel? Oh, come on, don't think Palps is a Darkside-God or something. He lost, but here is the clue: even if he lost, he could manage it that anakin turns to the dark side.
      • And he needed the Jedi to attack him in order to issue Order 66. He wants to be Emperor! This is his first goal; to turn anakin is second.
      • We can't reach a conclusion, so you can believe that he lost and I can believe that he didn't, but none of us can claim that "he lost, end of story" or that "he won, end of story". It is left AMBIGUOUS. So you can't say: "And u should know, that Palps lost it". --Master Starkeiller 20:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
        • To the anonymous user: Notice how well Palpatine fought against Fisto, Kolar, and Tiin. He easily defeated them, and they were skilled Jedi Masters. Then, Palpatine continues to fight Windu with skill, until he loses his lightsaber. Then, he's backed up again the edge of the window, and Anakin comes in. Palpatine does the "I'm weak" deal, then shoots Force lightning at Windu, which is, in turn, deflected back at him. However, this does not make Palpatine weak. After Anakin cuts off Windu's hand, Palpatine begins to fire more Sith lightning at Windu. Then, after Windu falls out throught the window, Palpatine gets up. I don't think he was actually weak. And Lucas himself stated that he later had it changed it to make Palpatine appear weaker. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
          • omg, lucas said: "But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later" What does this mean? Right! Before he added this part, Palpi lost, lost, lost and again, lost. So difficult to understand? Nobody of the VIPs in star wars say palpatine faked. nobody ... instead, they fought like real men. And come on, the part where he kills the so called jedi masters is bullshit. But that's another topic. lol, this could be the dumbest scene in the movie (where he kills the 3 "jedi masters").
            • It seems to me that you just have a severe case of dislike for Palpatine. Stemming from inherent Jedi fanboyism. Your opinions can't even be considered anymore because your opinions are based upon your immature fantasies of Jedi and their invincibility. I hate fanboys. Palpatine is not my favorite character - and I'm certainly no fanboy of his. But I do give credit where it's due - credit based upon fact, canon, and the Star Wars universe. Not my own personal beliefs. Just because you think Palpatine slaughtering three of the finest Jedi in a few seconds is dumb does not make it invalid, or anything else. It happened. Palpatine wiped them out. He was responsible for the collapse of the entire Jedi Order. Get over it and stop being a damn fanboy. No one likes them. --Danik Kreldin 17:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
              • Hey, ur're insulting me, really. I'm NOT a fanboy; but I can understand what people like McCallum or George Lucas say. Mmmmhhh ... where is now the problem? I show the quotes and what's bad about the movie and he just insults me! that's not friendly!=( ; but, if u wanna ignore Lucas himself, it's ur problem, not mine.

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Lucas specifically said Palpatine pretended to be weak. It doesn't matter if it's something he added later or not, it was still in the movie, and it's how it went down. Just because it wasn't originally going to take place like that means absolute shit. It ended up with Palpatine pretending to be weak. Just as Lucas said. Is there something you can't comprehend there? --Danik Kreldin 17:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• The anon doesn't get it. Lucas added it, which changed the entire scene. Palpatine was pretending to be weak in the final version. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you act like an asshole over it. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:08, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok, I'm out. Lucas said it ... but well, all I get here are insults like ass**** and so on. Wow; what a community. A really good style of speaking with others ... applause
    • That's only how we speak to the anons that keep it up and keep it up when they've been proved wrong numerous times. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 22:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Seems to me we'd respect him more if he actually, oh, I don't know... TOLD US HIS NAME! Anyone can hide behind anonymity and say whatever they want, but that doesn't make them right. I don't even have an alias, I use my REAL NAME! That's how much I respect my brethren here. Erik Pflueger 04:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Anons can be annoying. Something I adress with absolutely no subtlety here. No offence non-annoying anons (a rare breed indeed). The good admiral I consider to be our first line of defence against annoying anons.--Master Starkeiller 12:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
          • hey, i'm respecting anyone; but where am i proven wrong? when lucas himself said palpatine faked only his loss of power ... omg, what don't ya understand in the commentary?
            • Even the databank stating it: "The two dueled, transforming the office of politics into an arena of lightsaber combat. Windu overpowered Palpatine the instant Anakin Skywalker came running into the offices.

Skywalker witnessed a stunning sight: the Chancellor, cornered, with Windu looming over him with his lightsaber blade extended. Palpatine unleashed a torrent of Sith lightning at the Jedi Master, but Windu was able to deflect it back at the Chancellor. The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features. His eyes burned yellow, his voice grew ragged and deep, and he became a well of dark side energies.

Palpatine slumped in the corner, seemingly too weak to continue the lightning assault. Fearing the Chancellor to be too powerful and too well connected, Windu decided he could not be taken alive. Before Windu could take justice into his own hands, though, Anakin sprung into action." Palpatine faked nothing but his "loss" of power.

• Enough, already. Lucas said it himself. Lucas outranks the databank. Deal with it. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 20:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, at least Mr. Anonymous came to the table with some research material, I gotta admit. The problem is, there's really nothing in that bunch of Databank quotes to definitively prove or disprove what he's saying. It's far too vague. At least Lucas' own quotes point toward one conclusion or the other. But really, isn't this just the equivalent of the old kids' argument: "My dad can beat up your dad?" If you like either Windu or Palps, you can't stand the idea of the other guy overpowering your guy. We've had reasons for knock-down drag-outs on this page in the past (boy, haven't we?), but I don't see this as a reason for one now. Erik Pflueger 13:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
    • The point is, it's over now. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 14:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
      • I don't care who wins, but if lucas says "the scene always started out with mace overpowering palpatine" and "but his part where he pretends to lose his power was added later" and mccallum says "they want to know who is stronger of them"(something like that), then, u're proven wrong. and with those sentences said i finish this topic once and for all
        • You don't get it, do you? Lucas is the creator of Star Wars. Lucas himself said it that Palpatine pretended to be weak was added later, therefore in the final version. Now it's over. You lose, anon. Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 15:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
          • LOL. Nebulax is Greivous. "You lose, Jedi!"--Erl 23:26, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
            • You could say that. ;) Admiral J. Nebulax ^(talk) 00:15, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
              • Except you're an Admiral. Not a general. Ok, done with irrelevance now--Erl 04:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

-i think Palpatine was toying with Mace during their lightsaber duel, and heres why: He was disarmed not a second before Anakin came in. He pretended to be weak and out power until Anakin finally turned and tats when palps showed his true colors and killed mace like it was pie. If he was so weak, he wouldnt have been able to kill him and wouldv asked Anakin to do it for him. And also, if he was truly disarmed fair and square, he wouldv kept the fight going by hurling his lightning at mace or some other force technique. But he didnt, he rushed right for the floor and carried out his master plan. And finally, we see him stalemate Yoda in a lightsaber duel. Yoda was one of the greatest duelists in the galaxy and Palps stalemated him. And we know, Yoda was higher than mace, and more skilled, so palps didnt toy with yoda, he fought to his full ability and defeated the skilled jedi at the end. So, tats why i think palps was mearly toying with mace during their duel.-Dillion Ryan

• I don't think "toying" is the right word for it, but you're right. Palpatine needed to look defeated to get Anakin's help. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
• Just a question, didnt it say in the novel that Palps purposely went weak to attract Anakin?
  • I think so, although I don't have the novel with me right now. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Defeat of Yoda

Isn't the part of this page about his abilities a contradiction of the Yoda article in which it says the duel between them ended in a stalemate because this article states that Palpatine defeated Yoda, which he did NOT. So it is a possiblity that Mace defeated Palpatine with skill not luck. Annonymous Supporter

• Sweet Buddha, not again... Cutch 23:09, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Palpatine defeated Yoda by forcing him to flee. And Mace did not defeated Palpatine. Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:40, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Umm.. the duel between Yoda & Palpatine was possibly a stalemate when they were struggling on the pod. But after both of them were knocked down, Yoda lost - due to lack of energy to continue the fight and being outnumbered by approaching clones. So Palpatine still defeat Yoda and forced him to retreat plus exile. In Mace's case, regardless of all the argument & debates, Mace still lost - even if he truly outsparred Sidious. Even if he truly outsparred Palp fair and square, one can say Mace merely gained the upperhand for some time in the fight. Palpatine is the victor of the battle. In both case, Palpatine was the final victor of the entire battle, regardless of his performance in certain particular time period of the battles. Darth Kevinmhk 04:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
      • You know, when you 're the smart sneaky guy with all the resources, the dark side, the hidden agenda and the master plan, you always win eventually. Well, until the final film that is. --Master Starkeiller 20:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
        • Let's look what Yoda and Palpatine say before the fight, after and what Yoda says in Return of the Jedi

"Your arrogance blinds you Master Yoda, now you will experience the full power of the Dark Side." - Emperor Palpatine "If so powerful, why leave." - Yoda "Failed have I." "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor." Yoda lost because Palpatine has better footing and quick thinking, in the Senate fight. Yoda was too slow for Palpatine, when Yoda threw that Senate pod, though it does give Palpatine the "Ah S**t!" expression when he has to jump out of the way and find Yoda.

• They both gained upperhand in different time periods during the fight. Yoda's: Surprisingly knocked Sidious across the room; outsparred Sidious on Chancellor's Podium (stated in Script + young reader); surprisingly countered pods throwing to the now-too-arrogant Sith; able to contend the lightning for some time. Sidious': knock Yoda across office; quick enough to blast Yoda away after Yoda disarm him (script + youngreader); throw pods at Yoda (before Yoda countered it); disarmed Yoda; and finally the advantage of better footing. Darth Kevinmhk 16:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
• The duel was a stalemate plan and simple. After the explosion from the Force lightning they were both thrown simultaneously, Sidious managed to hold on to the pod while Yoda lost his grip and fell all the way down to the ground. Because he wasn't an impulsive imbecile, he chose to retreat because he'd have been at a disadvantage at that point because Sidious had the high ground. So Yoda did NOT lose, he withdrew from combat. Commander Black
  • By fleeing, he lost. Yoda, the Grand Jedi Master, could have just grabbed his lightsaber and kept on going by getting onto another Senate pod. Yoda truly did not have to flee—he didn't have anything else to do, right? He could have stayed there all day and fought. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
    • In my mind, if you don't achieve the objective you want in a fight, then by definition you lose. Yoda went there to kill Palpatine. Period. And he had a limited window of time to do it in if he wanted to get out of there alive. He could have gone in expecting to die, but who would preserve the Jedi traditions for another day? Kenobi? He might not have made it, either. Palpatine had to die and Yoda had to live. And the fight went in a way that spent Yoda's one chance at doing it. True, Jack, he could have found his blade and gone back to work on it, but the stormtroopers were coming, and if he died, so much for the future of the order. So that was it; he'd shot his wad and it didn't work. Palpatine remained un-killed. Therefore, he lost and Palpatine won, though as the young adult novelization says (I'll add the page number when I get home from work [Edit: it's page 169, for those of you who are curious]), it was a very near thing. But at least he got out alive, to eventually train the Jedi that would set things right. So he didn't lose entirely. But by definition, he lost the fight. Erik Pflueger 20:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Yoda could have taken out those shock troopers, though. After all, he took on all those clones at the Jedi Temple. I mean, how many shock troopers were there? A handful? Yoda could have quickly killed them and then continue on with Palpatine. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
        • In truth all points are valid to some degree, in the end though I think ill have to conceed and side with Erik on this that by DEFINITION Yoda did fail in his mission constituting a loss, but as far as skill to skill goes between the Dark Lord of the Sith and the Grand Master of the Jedi, neither won...also Palpatine's failure to KILL Yoda meant he neither achieved his goal of eradicating ALL the Jedi...which obviously became a problem in the future :P Commander Black
• Objective of Palpatine: Clearly, he just wanna survive the day to rule his empire, if Yoda died, so much the better. Objective of Yoda: Destroy Palpatine to take back the Republic and safeguard the remaining Jedi - If he & Ben both succeed, then the Force is with them; if he succeed and Ben failed, well then Vader was on his Next Kill list; if Ben succeed and Yoda died, then it's a nightmare, Ben could never defeat Palpy in a fight, and Yoda would have no chance to teach Ben about Jiin.... Apart from getting out alive and teaching Ben, Yoda failed his objective. Although Yoda's survival ensure the victory of the light 20 years later, he lost his duel. Palpy win the duel, Yoda won the war. Yoda could risk everything and stay behind, but he duno how is Ben going, and he already lost his lightsaber. Even though clones are nothing compared to a Grand Master, the distraction casued by the clones could open a chance for Palpy to launch a death blow. Darth Kevinmhk 02:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • "Yoda could have taken out those shock troopers, though. After all, he took on all those clones at the Jedi Temple. I mean, how many shock troopers were there? A handful? Yoda could have quickly killed them and then continue on with Palpatine." But he couldn't, Jack. Find his saber and jump all the way back there again, when he was already tired and there was no way of knowing just how many troops Palpatine could summon? The longer he stayed, the more troops might have shown up, and the less chance he had of getting out of there alive. Why take the chance? Remember, it wasn't just killing Palpatine that was Yoda's objective, it was getting out alive afterward. He had a responsibility to the future of the Jedi Order. He couldn't waste himself by hanging around just to get another shot. He'd had his shot, and botched it. He'd screwed the pooch. Trying again and getting yourself into a trap would have been tactically foolish, extremely so. Erik Pflueger 03:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
    • True, Yoda didn't know how many, but he didn't know how many there would be in the Jedi Temple, correct? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
      • He didn't know how many, but again, Jack, why take the chance? If the future of the Order depends on you living long enough to ensure that future, you cannot take a chance that there'll be too many troops for you to get out. Period. As for he and Kenobi penetrating the Jedi Temple, the objective was quite different. Get in, recalibrate the beacon, get intell on what happened, and get out. They took on one clone patrol to get past the door the clones were guarding, concealed the bodies to prolong the time they had before their presence was known so that the clones wouldn't be actively looking for them and making their job harder, then ducked their way past any other clones they came near. Then they got what they wanted and snuck out. But the moment you attack the chief of state of the government, and that chief's adjutant left the room, it's another ball game.

Yoda showed up in Palpatine's office prepared to do some damage, and Palps sent Mas Amedda away. If I'm Yoda, then I know that means Amedda's off to get help of the clone kind, and I have no choice but to assume there'll be a LOT of help. Security will be on full alert. It means I have only one shot at this, and if I fail, then I have to beat it. I'm a very powerful Jedi Master, but the events of the past day or so have pretty conclusively proved that being a powerful Jedi isn't a bulletproof vest. I have to destroy the Sith Lord if I can, but I have to restore the Jedi, no ifs, ands or buts. I CANNOT RISK DYING OVER THIS. I cannot assume that no matter how many stormtroopers appear, I can take them AND get Palpatine. I cannot take the chance that the Jedi will die with me. And I cannot even assume that Kenobi will succeed on Mustafar and pick up where I leave off. He could die, too, and then it's all down the crapper. So I have to save myself. Based on that dynamic, once Yoda failed to kill Sidious, the jig was up, and HE HAD TO LEAVE. And that's that. Erik Pflueger 23:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

• "If the future of the Order depends on you living long enough to ensure that future, you cannot take a chance that there'll be too many troops for you to get out". One could say the same thing about their mission in the Jedi Temple. All I'm saying is that for both cases, Yoda's objective was to try to save as much of the Jedi Order as possible. He didn't know how many enemies he was going up against or what. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

And when you don't know, you should always err on the side of caution. That's all I'm saying! :) Erik Pflueger 00:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Okay, the point is Yoda lost. I don't think we need to keep this up anymore. ;) Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • True, Jack, too true. But oh boy, a good debate's pretty fun, isn't it? Erik Pflueger 00:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
    • You bet. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 12:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
• Palpatine beat Yoda because he has superior Force Powers. But in the lightsaber dueling portion of the fight, Palpatine was out of practice with a Lightsaber. His use of Ataru might have been effective, but it was no match for Yoda's mastery of it. So he simply switched to what he did best, casting Force Lightning and throwing things.
  • Palpatine was out of practice with a lightsaber?! Hell no. He had defeated three Jedi Masters in a few seconds. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Palpatine defeated the first 3 Jedi Masters using Dark Rage and Force Speed, not lightsaber skills. In a prolonged battle, he is out of practice. He probably hadn't touched his lightsaber for decades.
      • Yet he still used his lightsaber to defeat Kolar, Fisto, and Tiin. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
        • But he killed them with the most basic possible moves. I have no sword training whatsoever and I could do the same moves. His only edge was the Force Speed and the Dark Rage.
          • They helped him defeat them quickly. I have no doubt that he could have still defeated them with a bit more time. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
            • OK, he was a skilled duelist in his day, but he hadn't touched his lightsaber for decades. It had been hidden in that Neuranium wall panel in his office for all that time. So he may have been skilled but was still out of practise and hopeless against highly skilled and practiced duelists like Yoda and Windu. (I enjoy this debate, I am User:Darth Vatrir. I hope it continues.)
              • Come on, Palpy could just comm Dooku and ask him to lend him a lightsaber for practice! (A joke, but the point is he could practice despite hiding his personal lightsaber) Furthermore, there is no pure swordplay in the world, especially for Force-users. Every single style of the seven forms involve the application of the Force and Force skills. A pure swordfight would ground Yoda at once, he would not be able to even move. And it was proved that despite eveything, Sidious survived Mace and Yoda, while one of them died, another retreat. Darth Kevinmhk 02:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                • Palpatine defeated Windu because Anakin Skywalker interfered. He defeated Yoda, as I have pointed out by using his Force Powers, which where far superior. And even with the Force, your skill with a lightsaber can still diminish if you don't use it for long periods.
                  • If Yoda could slain Palpatine with his lightsaber, he could and would have done so before Palpatine switch to Force battle. Yoda failed to do so shows the mastery of Palpatine's swordplay. Darth Kevinmhk 03:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                    • And where, may I ask, does it say that Palpatine never touched his lightsaber until the Duel in the Chancellor's Office? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                      • To Darth Kevinmhk, Yoda disarmed Palpatine on the Chancellors pod. But before he could deliver the killing blow, Palpatine leapt away. User:Darth Vatrir
                        • To Fleet Admiral Nebulax, logically speaking, Palpatine couldn't touch his lightsaber without revealing he had one. Someone would probably notice the big burn hole in his Neuranium sculpture. Oh, stop contradicting me, Fleet Admiral. User:Darth Vatrir
                          • Palpatine had more than one lightsaber, in case you didn't notice. Therefore, I'm not "contradicting" you. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                            • One lightsaber, two lightsaber, it doesn't matter. With his 'hide in plain-sight' tactic, he can't touch any of them without revealing them. And this has gone way beyond the theory that Palpatine was out of practice with his lightsaber. User:Darth Vatrir
                              • • • he could of touched one of his sabers...he had others, and whose to say anyone who had seen his saber before lived to tell the tale? Jedi Dude 21:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                                    • Saying that he didn't touch his lightsaber until that duel is speculation. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                                      • and god knows how i hate speculation... haha. these silly conversations on talk pages make me laugh. speculation leads to some crazy arguments. 'confrentations' rather Jedi Dude 21:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
                                        • And of course, we don't want speculation on talk pages. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

-In my opinion, Palpatine was indeed a great lightsaber duelist. After all, he defeated three experienced jedi masters in just a few seconds. He managed to stalemate Yoda, one of the greatest jedi masters ever to live in a lightsaber duel (Only George Lucas is the person who can tell us what happened to Palps lightsaber, and he hasnt, and the books and junior novelizations always tend to change certain scenes after the movie to make it more interesting. So since Lucas nor the movie has told us what happened, for all we know Palpatine simply put his saber away to start a force duel). And then, not six years later, Palpatine owned Luke Skywalker in a lightsaber duel and also disarmed Leia when she herself tried to engage in combat. So, he was IN practice with his saber skills. - Dillion Ryan

• Well, one could say that Palpatine had a lot of training in the years after Endor but before he reappeared, but I think Palpatine was well-trained from the beginning. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
• I think that Palpatine was setting up the fight with Mace just so Anakin could come in and save him. Palpatine could see into the future so he most likely saw this coming.--67.87.81.98 22:25, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, I think it's pretty obvious that Palpatine looked defeated to turn Anakin to the dark side. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Palpatine's black hair trim conflicts with red hair in Episode I

Has anyone else noticed that in Episode III, Palpatine has a rim of black hair near the base of his neck. In Episode I he has no trace of black hair. I first noticed the black hair just prior to the deformed Palpatine putting on his cloak, I thought it was because the hair was singed by the lightning, but then I noticed it earlier on in the movie. Was this a goof or is there an explanation?

• Not necessarily. In Episode II, there's more blackish hair coming up about halfway. Upon closer inspection, it's actually gray, and probably a brownish-gray. It looks like Palpatine's (probably Ian's as well) hair color was fleeing towards the back as the white invaded.

Either way, I think red-brown is Ian McDiarmid's natural hair color. Or at least was.

• Well, the image with Palpatine with red hair is set before Episodes II and III, and I don't think there's any black hair in that image. So, either something happened to his hair between Episodes I and II or he dyed it. Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 10:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
• Palpatine's hair started out a brilliant red when he was a young man, but Dark Side corruption steadily darkened it as he got older. In Episode 1, his hair was a burgundy color. So it can be assumed that had his hair not gone white with age, it would have darkened to black at that point.
  • I don't think the dark side had anything to do with it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Number 1, why not? Number 2, Fleet Admiral, you have just contradicted another User:Darth Vatrir theory. GOD DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
      • Oh my God, I "contradicted" something you said again. Not everything you say is canon, Darth Vatrir, and it sure isn't nice to say "Screw off" and "God damn you" to people, no matter who it is. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
        • I blend canon with personal speculation, so I can believe whatever the hell I want. Besides, most of my theories are plausible if not true. I apologize for the rudeness but being contradicted over and over and over again is incredibly annoying.User:Darth Vatrir
          • Darth Vatrir, you can say and believe whatever you want, but make sure you know that canon plus speculation does not equal canon and that speculation isn't allowed on talk pages. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
            • I give up...User:Darth Vatrir
• Ok, now that I have spent a little while calming down, back to this theory. It has been pretty firmly established that the Dark Side of the Force does affect your appearance. So if it changes your eye and skin pigment, why won't it change your hair color? User:Darth Vatrir I rest my case...
  • Because it's not sourced. And please don't restart old topics. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 16:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Sorry to press this, but how else could his hair have darkened. I seriously doubt he dyed it,otherwise he would have a full head of black hair. And hair doesn't darken like that naturally, so Dark Side corruption is really the only plausible explanation. User:Darth Vatrir
      • To you, perhaps. How do we know for sure that he didn't dye it, or that something else caused it? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
        • I don't think he dyed it because he was trying to appear to the galaxy as a humble polition, and dyeing your hair implies vanity. Humbleness and vanity don't work togethor at all. And what else could have caused it accept Dark Side corruption. Please be specific... User:Darth Vatrir
          • It could be anything, because we don't know for sure. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• Ummmm...WHO CARES!?!
  • It appears that some of us do, so don't say anything like that again. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Did Palpatine have a lightsaber available in Return of the Jedi?

After seeing Episode III, I doubt that Palpatine was "unarmed" as he said he was. Is there any recent information that indicates that he was armed with a lightsaber or were is force powers so great that he had no need for one?

• I would generally be surprised if Palpatine didn't have one somewhere in his robes, but no, there is no official information on whether he had a lightsaber with him at the time. -- SFH 04:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • No source has stated whether he got a lightsaber on DS2... but i too agree that he actually had one. (But that would make him stupid, coz once Vader grab him, he should use the blade to slice off Vader's arm - i observe that move can still perform, especially for a masterful swordsman like Plapy) Darth Kevinmhk 10:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Palpatine was probably too overconfident to have one with him while both Skywalkers were there, but I assume he had one in his quarters. Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Having a lightsaber in your belt would still make you "weaponless," in tge sense that you don't activate it and will be unable to defend yourself. I, too, think that Palpatine had one. - TopAce 11:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
        • The question is, however, where was it if he had it? Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Maybe it was in his sleeve. So when Vader lift him up, the hilt fall backward and physically not reachable by palms. Or maybe Palpy was so so so surprised by the betrayal of Vader that he knew nothing other than continue his blasts. Darth Kevinmhk 14:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
            • Of course, now that I think about it, even if he did have a lightsaber with him, he might have wanted to die so that the Rebellion would seem victorious, and Palpatine would later come back and fool the entire Alliance. We have to remember that Sidious had a big plan before 19 BBY, so this could have been another one. Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
              • He's always the man with a plan, Jack, but the thing is, I know of no other plan that he had in mind other than 1.) convert Luke, 2.) make Luke kill Vader, 3.) go right on expanding his power, only with a new and more powerful apprentice, one with most of his flesh intact and not so Cajun-cooked.

It's not that he wanted to die for any reason, it's just - according to Dark Empire - he had the clone thing as a fallback. And it ain't necessarily the case that he expected to need that fallback. If he had, he would have brought a clone with him to the Death Star and, a few minutes after the old Palpatine was turned into chunky salsa at the bottom of the shaft, a young Palpatine - probably packing a saber - would have come in the throne room and - let's be honest, folks - he'd have pasted Luke. I mean, it's not like Luke had a prayer against Palpatine doing all those spinning moves, right? Now, if I find anything that tells me different, I'll let you all know, but I really don't see any benefit to his plans if he dies, even temporarily. In fact, all that does is cheese him off.

Now, as to whether he was packing a blade in ROTJ: my guess is, he wasn't too old to use one - his cane was just for show, not because he needed it, so he could have still busted some moves with a blade - so if he HAD one on his person, in his robes, he would have used it if he needed to. But did he need to? When it comes to Luke, he probably figured the purple lightning would've done the trick by itself, but when Vader grabbed him, he sure needed it then, and he's quick enough that he could have gotten to it - IF it was there. So it probably wasn't on his person. But I have a hard time thinking he didn't at least have one in his private quarters. There's no backup for my opinions, in the EU or anything else, it's just my feelings. And remember, source trumps feeling, always. Erik Pflueger 04:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

• Of course. Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • • • • • • • • My personal guess would be that he had one concealed in his throne (consider that he would likely be aware of Amidala's blasters in TPM - if he didn't know before, he would have probably learned after from either Amidala or Gunray) and thus couldn't reach it after he stood up. Which indicates either overconfidence or him getting carried away with the lightning. Either way, an unusual oversight for such a cunning man, but much less so than not bringing a sabre to the fight at all. No sources back this up though, so the whole discussion is kind of pointless.
• Please don't post in the middle of discussions like that. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
• Knowing Palps, he probably DID have a saber on him in death star 2.

After all, what would happen if his lightning didnt work, what would he do? surrender? i dont think so. Hed slide down his ol saber and engage in a lightsaber duel. But he figured he wouldnt have to use it because he had Vader. And if anybody, including Luke, tried to engage him in combat, hed just have Vader do it for him. But im sure palps had a saber on him in DS2 JUST IN CASE.- Dillion Ryan

• • Of course, we don't know that for sure. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
• But we do know this for sure, if Vader or Luke engaged palps in a lightsaber duel, theyd have their ass handed to em on a silver platter.
  • Probably, but still, it's speculation. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
    • yep, the force was with Luke that day, and Palps was old, but yep its all just speculation Jedi Dude 13:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
      • While Palpatine was old, he was still the Sith Master and more experience than Luke. But let's end this discussion until we have proof that Palpatine had a lightsaber on the second Death Star. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
• As for the main question, with all the strong Jedi gone and the relatively inexperienced Luke Skywalker, I now think Palpatine may have arrogantly believed he no longer needed a saber as he had achieved the ultimate power in the Galaxy and that Vader was badly injured at Mustafar.
  • Could be, but still, it's all speculation. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I just want to remind everyone that in the Star Wars The Empire At War game, Palpatine fought in a few battles in which used his lightsaber. So I assume htat during the battle of Endor, he must of had a lightsaber but I agree that he probably did not had it with him on the Death Star but rather in his quaters. —Unsigned comment by 70.50.52.62 (talk • contribs)

Narrative tone

This article reads with more of a narrative tone than an encyclopedic one. Is that intentional? --P3d0 21:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, because Erik is very creative. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I like it, it's like a real biography. Jachra 09:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

• Please don't restart old topics, unless there's something important to the discussion needing to be discussed. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

What old topics? What do you mean? --P3d0 23:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• This was an old topic before Jachra posted on it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Palpatine as Antichrist?

I was watching a history channel special on the antichrist (I don't know if anyone else has seen it or not) but as I watched it I got the sense that Palpatine could be an antichrist type figure in the Star Wars universe. He was a solitary, charismatic person who lead and unified during a time of crisis promising peace and prosperity and was heralded as a savior, of course as his rule grew longer he became less amiable and more sinister as his rule solidified and eventually lead to a time of tribulation until eventually being destroyed (this was how the concept of Antichrist was defined by the History Channel). Of course the idea being that the antichrist would eventually be defeated by Christ and Palpatine was destroyed by Anakin who was The Chosen One. So I was just curious if anyone thought it would be worthwhile to add to the 'behind the scenes' section. I figure I should note that I don't purport to see Star Wars as a religious allegory or anything, this was just an observation that I felt was valid and thought it might have a place in the 'behind the scenes' section.-Jadden Sinn 05:22, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• That should be added. It does seem like Palpatine was the Antichrist of Star Wars. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • All right, I added it to the "Behind the Scenes" section at the end just above the "Original Version" section, I think it fits well there but if someone wants to double check in case it might fit better some where else. I'm still a little new at the whole wiki thing. Thanks.-Jadden Sinn 20:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
    • It looks good there. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
      • I really love this concept. I don't recall Jadden Sinn having contributed to this article before, but if so, then he struck gold right out of the gate. I shall see if there are any ways to flesh it out some. My sole nitpick - and it is just that - is for my friend Jack: I noticed you changed the "A" in Antichrist to a lowercase "a". Respectfully, I submit that I have never seen a rendition of that term in any book I've ever read - biblical or otherwise - where the "A" was not capitalized. Rather than change it, though, I wanted to give you a chance to give your opinion. You're the traffic cop on this page, after all. ;) Erik Pflueger 02:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Ha ha, thanks for the compliment I appreciate it. And as for the capitalization issue I honestly don't know why I changed it because Antichrist should be a proper noun, I probably just missed it as I was typing, I'll change it back as that's how I believe it probably should be.-Jadden Sinn 03:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
          • Well, I wasn't exactly sure about whether it was capitalized or not, but I guess I should have since I'm Catholic. ;) Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 13:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Did Sidious stalemate Yoda in lightsaber duel?

• After watching the movie and reading the novel, my conclusion is that the lightsaber duel between Yoda and sidious was a stalemate. We see both contestants show fight hard and show their skills. We see the sabers clash many times, and yet neither combatent is able to overpower the other. The last we see of the lightsaber duel is the two blades interlocking. Palps probably realized tat if he kept going with sabers, they would be there ALL DAY. And tats why the next time we see him, he has put his saber away and started a force duel, to end it quickly. Tats my opinion.- Dillion Ryan
  • It's already been decided (under "Defeat of Yoda") that Yoda was defeated because he retreated. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Palpatine's death by Anakin - Plagueis' Revenge?

I know that the issue of whether Anakin was conceived by Palgueis is still in contention. But supposing that he was and that Plagueis anticipated a threat by Sidious, Anakin could have been designed to get rid of Sidious similar to the fate of Dooku. I think that Anakin was a ticking time bomb on Palpatine, which Palpatine had to spend the rest of his life trying to diffuse. Plageuis may have in effect created the Chosen One in consequence of his own fear of losing power which he, like all Sith refuse to lose, to be the time bomb which would activate if Palpatine ever killed him. Palpatine's death could have been Plageuis' most twisted revenge, to give Palpatine the most terrifying destruction which all Sith fear, to fall (in part literally) from the absolute power to destruction.

• Please keep speculation off of talk pages. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 18:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Cos Dashit

I know this has been discussed backwards and forwards for the past seven years, but Here is my spin: We know that Padme Naberrie [sp?] was given the name Amidala when she was elected Queen of Naboo, and that she has used this name for the rest of her time in service to Naboo. In Cloak of Deception, it is said that Palpatine had once served as King of Naboo. We know that it is the tradition of the Naboo to give these names (without apparent definition) to their leaders. In GL's early writings the Emperor was known as Cos Dashit.

Therefore: Palpatine can very well go by the names Cos Dashit, or Cos Palpatine (like Padme Amidala, though improper), in adition to Palpatine and Sidious.

At the very least, stop calling him Frank! For the Love of the Force!

Prometheus 17:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• Cos Palpatine is Supershadow fanon. Cos Dashit is the original name for Palpatine, indeed, but without any canonical source, we cannot consider Palpatine's name as "Cos Dashit." Even though there may be some truth in what you say, it cannot be added to the article, only if it were a common speculation. - TopAce 17:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Damn SuperIdiot. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Palpatine, the king of Naboo? Wha-wha-whaaaaaat? If there were anything in Cloak of Deception that even suggested that Palpatine had actually served as the elected monarch of Naboo, I would have remembered it, and added it already. If Prometheus is saying this, then he'd better be prepared to cite the exact quote and page number, or else I'll be forced to conclude, regrettably, that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Erik Pflueger 21:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Oops, must have skipped over that part that Prometheus wrote about him being king of Naboo. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
        • I prepared to read an interesting debate until I find out he mentioned Palpy as King of Naboo, then I know I would be disappointed. Darth Kevinmhk 04:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
          • Right now, Frank still looks like a better first name for him. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Personally, I'd like to call him "TV's Frank Palpatine" ;) In the not-too-distant future... Erik Pflueger 01:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
              • Maybe even the Plagueis novel will have his name. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Near the End of Cloak of Deception, Valorum and Palpatine are discussing what will happen now that King Veruna is dead. Valorum asked Palpatine if there was any possibility of him being recalled. I am unable to give the precise page as the book is being lent to a friend in the cause of converting more to the way of the Force. If I have misinterpretted this part of the book, I will welcome the cited page and quoted area in question.

We can only hope that James Luceno can answer our questions.

• Please do not post in the middle of a topic. And "being recalled" doesn't mean he was King. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, for sheer kicks and giggles, I've used what Mr. Anonymous told us and tracked down the quotes he mentioned. They're from Cloak of Deception, all right (p. 287-288 of the hardcover edition). Palpatine and Orn Free Taa are in discussion just prior to the conference on Eriadu, and Taa notes that Palpatine seems preoccupied. Palpatine answers that he had just heard that King Veruna has abdicated the throne (he has not been assassinated yet), that there will be an acting regent until elections are held, and that he doesn't know who is in the running to replace Veruna (he's probably lying there).

Taa asks Palpatine if he is in danger of being recalled, and he answers, "That remains to be seen." The reason Taa asks is most likely because Luceno is assuming that an off-world representative of Naboo is appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of, Naboo's monarch, so when that monarch finishes his term, one way or another, then those who represent him may also have to wind up their affairs and finish their service. Luceno had good reason to assume this; quite a few monarchies work this way. It was only established in the last year or so, in the Star Wars: Republic comics, that Palpatine was in fact elected as a Senator himself, after Vidar Kim was assassinated.

Because of this inconsistency, we can't know what Palpatine had on his hands when Veruna stepped down. No one at LFL has rectified the inconsistency. We can only speculate. Perhaps, once a new monarch was elected, he or she had the option to call for a new election for Senator, in which case Palpatine would either have been replaced or reelected. In the end, Amidala was elected, and while it is established that Palpatine returned home for her coronation (Episode I Visual Dictionary, p. 62), there is no indication anywhere that he had to stand for a new election. So this all may be just completely incorrect speculation on my part. But at least I'm telling you up front.

In any case, nothing that was said in the book means that Palpatine ever served as a monarch himself. What we have been dealing with here, for days now, is exactly what happens when someone makes public claims here based on information half-remembered or delivered second-hand. I say again, as I always have, that if someone wants to add something, he or she had better be prepared to back it up with the exact title and page number. And there'll be a hundred others like myself prepared to check it. If they can't confirm it, they should wait to confirm it before writing it up here, and if they're just guessing, they should tell us they're just guessing. Erik Pflueger 20px 05:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• Interesting theory, Erik. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:17, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Really? Frankly, I thought you'd be chiding me for being too hard on the guy (and yes, I was, but you can't solve a problem by treating it with kid gloves). By the way, how do you get it so that there's a logo next to your name whenever you sign? That's really cool. :) Erik Pflueger 14:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • It's in one of the archives of my talk page... Let me look. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 15:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Here it is: User talk:Jack Nebulax Archive 4#User sigs. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 15:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Thanks for the assist, Jack. And that's good as a topic palate-cleanser as any I could think of... Erik Pflueger 20px 15:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Force hover

• I notice when I was playing as Palpatine in Battlefront II that his feet don't touch the ground or move unless he's crouching. This isn't cannon, is it? I was thinking the developers did this because it was difficult to animate the cloth around his legs or something like that.--Darth Oblivion^Comlink20px 16:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • It's not been shown anywhere, but if his apprentice Tyranus could float to the ground using the Force, and if other, lesser Force-users could levitate things, then Sidious has to be able to do this. I haven't played Battlefront II, so I can't speak personally to what you've been experiencing. I can't believe that the game designers couldn't animate the cloth around his legs, when they animate all sorts of things that to me seem more difficult. So, while it's not specifically canon (and it's canon with one "N", by the way - a cannon with two "N"s is something you blow people away with), it's really hard to believe that someone as powerful as Sidious couldn't use the Force to hover, float, or lift himself. Erik Pflueger 20px 19:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Probably just another way Battlefront II goes against canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• well it does appear in Visionaries.
  • Visionaries is mainly non-canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Portrayal

There must be some way that we can have the two pics in the portrayal section side-by-side without them cutting the sentence apart. Sentences that are cut apart by a pic look fairly unprofessional, in my opinion, but I also understand the rationale of having them side by side. There must be a way to do it without splitting the text. - Angel Blue 451 01:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• That's probably the only way, I'm afraid. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Did it. - Angel Blue 451 18:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I've tried shrinking the one image. The "<br />s" did no good for me. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
      • You mean the text was still split on your monitor?-Angel Blue 451 23:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
        • No, but it made that section look really bad. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

How so? I thought it made it look better. The text wasn't split anymore. - Angel Blue 451 00:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

• It created a very large and ugly white space. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:30, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

You mean in the code, or in the article itself? Was it between the two pics or between the pics and the text? (I didn't see a white space on my monitor, so forgive my questions.) - Angel Blue 451 16:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

• In the article, between the pictures. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Luke vs. Sidious rematch! (One-on-one, Luke gets no help from ANYBODY)

• Well since its one one-on-one, ill break it down to this:

1)Saber duel 2)Force duel 3)Force and saber duel

And since Luke gets no help from Leia, ill say this:

Saber duel: Sidious, Force duel: Sidious, Saber and force duel: Sidious VIA

Thats for damn sure. -Dillion Ryan

• ...what are you talking about? -- SFH 22:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
  • hes simluating a duel, sorry anon no one cares, this isn't the place for it, try a forum on another site Jedi Dude 23:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Wookieepedia is not about who you think would win a duel, anon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 02:40, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Sidious' lightsaber after his duel with Yoda

In "Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader", although noncanoical and some of its information has been proved wrong, said that Sidious allowed Vader to use his lightsaber for a model. That would mean that Sidious kept his black saber after his duel. But this information is noncanoical, should we believe it??

• How is Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader non-canonical? -- I need a name 22:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah, Dark Lord isn't non-canonical. Some of its information may be contradicted by other sources, but that doesn't make one source non-canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Since that lightsaber was itself a backup of the one Sidious lost during his duel with Mace, it's not unlikely he keeps spares, so this doesn't really prove he kept his saber after the Yoda battle. Of course, if it wasn't destroyed, Thire's shock troops would likely have found it - Kwenn 18:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
      • True. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 18:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Sidious' swordsmanship

• In my opinion, for his time, Sidious was one of the greatest fencers we ever get to see. And heres why: He bested Darth Maul in two saber duels (They were actually tests to see if Maul was prepared to become a sith, but still were duels), he took down three trained jedi masters in under five seconds, and he managed to stalemate Yoda in a vicious saber duel on the senate podium. So, during the time of the Old republic and the galactic Empire, Sidious was ONE of the greatist fencers in the galaxy. Yoda, being the grandmaster of the jedi order, rivaled Sidious in terms of swordsmanship, and thats why neither were THE greatist. However, both surpassed anybody else and became damn near unbeatable for their times.
  • While I agree, please keep opinions off of talk pages. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 16:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

A link needs to be changed

Since I can't edit this page, I just wanted an admin to know that the link Glory needs to be changed to Glory. Thanks. Reignfire 17:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

• Done. But why can't you edit the page? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks. To me the article page is protected, probably because my account is too new. Reignfire 23:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Are you sure? I wasn't aware that articles could be protected against only new users.--Darth Oblivion^Comlink30px 23:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
      • It's possible, but the articles are usually tagged as such. -LtNOWIS 23:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Well, it says only registered users can edit it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
          • I am genuinely sorry that Reignfire had a problem, but believe me, we had so many problems from anons before this new policy was enacted that I would never consider changing it back. What happened to Reignfire may be the exception, not the rule, and perhaps any user who is registered can still edit. Perhaps if he tries again, he'll have better luck. I hope he does. But better the occasional fluke than some jackass named 68.233.748.3632 saying that Palpatine did his mother in a pink Porsche. They write that kind of stuff, ya know. Erik Pflueger 20px 00:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
            • So Wookieepedia does have semi-protection. Is the article semi-protected or not? If so, it should be tagged as such.--Darth Oblivion^Comlink30px 01:05, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
              • I think I read somewhere that when a certain protection is enabled, new users are blocked to help against vandalism. Unfortunately, I don't remember where this was, so I can't check what the time length is. This doesn't bother me though since the only change I wanted to make has been done. Reignfire 01:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
                • Wikipedia's policy, which I assume is the same as Wookieepedia's, states that a new user cannot edit a semi-protected article until 4 days after joining.--Darth Oblivion^Comlink30px 01:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
                  • Ah. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

The greatest, best-thought-out, most complex part of Star Wars…

…is Palpatine's whole rise to power, isn't it? Reading it here in one place really solidifes how all the EU materials come together to form the tapestry of a perfectly executed plan. This is the main source of depth in the prequels, and I feel like a lot of prequel-haters don't see this brilliance. Viva Wookieepedia! Cutch 07:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

• • Yep, i agree although you do need to keep opinions off these pages thanks! Jedi Dude 08:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree, too. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:16, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I agree also... don't act so shocked. ;) Erik Pflueger 20px 14:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
        • But, as Jedi Dude said, this isn't the place for it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
          • <sigh>. Cutch 05:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
            • Sorry, Cutch. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Did Sidious still carry a saber after ROTS?

• Did Sidious still see the need to pack a saber?? Its obvious that he did not lose it. He chucked it after his saber duel with Yoda to achieve the high ground, and later had it returned to him. He even allowed Vader to use it as a model to create his own weapon. But, after he declared himself emperor, did he see the need to still keep one hidden up his sleeve??
  • I suspect so. - Angel Blue 45120px^(Holonet) 16:08, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
    • This has already been discussed in one of the archives. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Defeat of Darth Maul

• In the comics, we see that Sidious enters and beats Darth Maul in two saber duels. However, he had some trouble in the second. Did he actually plan on Darth Maul going pyscho, and if he did, did he plan on Maul beating him??

-How the hell is Maul gonna beat Sidious. Sidious rivals Yoda, the greatest swordsman in the galaxy, in terms of saber combat. And he was also able to defeat three of the best councils warriors in under five seconds. So, how is Maul gonna be a threat to him?-Dillion Ryan

• Why does it sound like you're talking as two different people? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 19:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't know, but neither of them make sense to me. Erik Pflueger 20px 02:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I think the anon actually meant to make it sound like two people. I don't know why, though. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
      • As to the question, it's all about context. OK, so Force-User A has more raw power than Force-User B. Big deal, as Anakin "Crispy" Skywalker would testify. No fighter is at his or her peak 100% of the time, so it's entirely feasible that Maul may have given Sidious a challenge on that occasion, but not necessarily on every occasion - Kwenn 14:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
        • True. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Palpatine and Tarkin

• Its no doubt that Palpatine trusted grand moff Tarkin. He trusted him with information regarding Vaders past as well as other things. But did he trust him enough to reveal his true identity, as Darth Sidious to Tarkin??
  • Who knows. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 18:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
    • It's not really a matter of trust is it? I mean, by the year 0 BBY/ABY the galaxy has realised the Empire for what it is, not what it was in the wake of the Clone Wars. One could say that if the galaxy knew the Emperor was a Sith Lord then even more people would rebel aginst him, but i doubt it. So it wouldn't really matter if Tarkin knew Vader and Sidious were Sith Lords. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council (Sith campaign)} 19:51, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Or would it? There were some Moffs who tried to remove Vader and Palpatine from their positions because they were Sith Lords. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Palpatine beat Yoda?

Excuse my ignorance, but didn't Palpatine duel Yoda to a draw? Because a user just changed it to say he could beat Yoda in combat. Sorry if you guys were in the middle of a discussion. Master 76 _{Holodisk Mind Trick}^{Jedi Library}

• Still, please do not remove topics. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:13, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed in the abilities and traits section of this article it states that Sidious defeated Yoda in lightsaber combat. We know that the entire fight along with the lightsaber duel was a draw, because Yoda and Sidious are essentially Yin and Yang. The only part of the battle that Yoda failed in was that he did not accomplish his goal of killing the dark lord. Can I get an okay to make that sentence say that Sidious equaled Yoda in lightsaber combat rather than saying he defeated him? which of course he didn't, thank you.--Stardust6000 23:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• No. This has been discussed numerous times, and it has been decided that Yoda was defeated. End of story. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  • See, Stardust? Everyone feels this way. So don't make your gripe personal with me. Cutch 04:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
    • If he makes a personal attack, you might need to inform the administrators. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Oh my God, do we have to keep coming back to this topic every other month? The movie was released more than a year and a half ago, and people are still caught up in the juvenille question of "Who Won?" Is everyone so worked up about defending Yoda's abilities as a swordsman - as if he needed anybody to get his back - that they have to represent all over this Wiki? "My dad can beat up your dad?" Come on, let's all just grow up. Erik Pflueger 20px 22:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
        • Agreed. This has been settled, and unless an official source says it's a draw, it will be interpreted as a defeat. Besides, even if Yoda didn't "lose" in the way people often mean when speaking of duels, he sure didn't win either. - Angel Blue ^(Holonet) 22:29, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
          • Exactly. But he did admit defeat when he said, "Failed, I have." Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
            • I look at how you keep getting these "promotions" of yours, Jack, and I admit defeat... ;) Erik Pflueger 20px 00:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
              • Well, next step is Executor Nebulax... ;) Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
                • You're bucking to be Emperor soon, aren't you? Tell the truth... Erik Pflueger 20px 04:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

This article is ripe with POV, which goes against our policies. Examples: "When angered, Sidious was a frightening sight to behold and an overpowering opponent." "A diabolical genius [...]). Furthermore, the article's quotes need to be cleaned up to comply with the MoS (excessive links and such). --Imp 00:45, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

• If you mean links in the main article and not quotes, yes. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

"Redundant internal links should not be added to quotes because they serve little purpose beyond making the quotes appear cluttered and messy. Links should only be added to quotes if they contain that article's ONLY mention of that particular concept, but even then, it is be better to integrate the internal link into the body of the article's text. Piped links should be avoided as much as possible. If the context of the quote is not readily apparent, it is best to add appropriate information to the quote attribution field of the quote template rather than adding piped links to ambiguous pronouns such as "you", "he", or "they"."

―Wookieepedia:Manual of Style