Talk: Kreia/Archive3

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Kreia Vs. Krynda Draay

I do realize that Krynda Draay died in one of the later issues of "Knights of the Old Republic," but keep in mind that Kreia actually feigned her own death at the beginning of "The Sith Lords," and was believed dead by not only the staff of Peragus II, but the Jedi Exile. Isn't it remotely possible that Krynda did the same? I won't add down this possibility in "Behind the Scenes" on this page if the moderators don't want it. Just let me know.

What ever happened to her army?

Being in the triumitave that would mean she had some troops from the sith empire. What happened to them? Did she disband it or give it 2 the other guys I know she had to keep a low profile but some extra soldiers or bodyguards wouldnt have hurt.

• Doesn't the notion of being exiled mean anything to you? Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council} 07:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Arren Kae?

I think this can't be true because Kae was handmaidens mother and she says her mother is death. By the way is there a posibility that she won't notice her mother? --—Unsigned comment by 144.122.43.31 (talk • contribs)

I disagree with both your points, though not because I support the theory regarding Arren Kae. First of all, people can very easily fake their own death. Judging from Kreia's appearance in the morgue, it seems that she can go even further and appear dead to advanced medical equipment. Therefore, until evidence of Kae's death is presented we cannot entirely be certain that she is truly dead (nevertheless, I personally believe this is so). Also, you raise the point of "noticing": Kreia uses an advanced technique called Art of the Small and numerous other methods of mind manipulation. If the Sith Lord of Betrayal, a mistress of manipulation doesn't want an untrained force-sensitive like Brianna to find something out; then she won't.

My personal belief is that the Knights of the Old Republic comics is setting up the great manipulator of the Padawan Massacre, Krynda Draay, to be the Kreia we know and love (or hate ^^). Such a strong and unique character bearing numerous similarities to Kreia is hard to disguise. --Kessel 22:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Kreia's history during the Mandalorian wars as Kae wouldn't let her be Dray but the comic-writers might not know that. --(Unsigned)

History as Kae? That's as much speculation as mine is, and is not fact. At all. --Kessel 22:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I think he's right. If they had introduced Kreia, there would have been no speculation on she and Krynda being one and the same, which was a good thing for the comics, it added to the mystery. I also think Krynda is going to die in the next issues, Q'Anilia will find her dead.--Jinger 00:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm hoping for a plot twist rather than what could obviously happen. Remember what Vrook said? "I thought you'd died during the Mandalorian Wars." --Kessel 09:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

In game there are also subtle hints that led me to believe that Kreia is Kae. Both Kae and Kreia were Revan's teachers, and Kreia was believed to have been killed on the Malachor V where Kae (supposedly) died. Also in relation to the visual appearance of Kreia - Atton notes that she must have been really beautiful when she was young, and Brianna's mother was also "women of unique beauty". Kreia's white hair may not be of the old age, but natural - like Brianna's. Also - above is mentioned that all Handmaidens shared the same mother, thus Kreia can't be Brianna's mother - it's not true. They all shared the same father, and Brianna was lovechild of her father and master Kae. I know it's still pure speculation, but it seems that the game intentionally provides only hint's of the connection between Kae and Kreia, and the final confirmation, while may have been intended never made it into the final version of the game. -- Thyriel Voran 23:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• Allow me to shoot down your theories one by one. Kae and Kreia both trained Revan. So did Zhar. Guess Kreia/Kae must also be Zhar. Kreia was never believed to have died on Malachor. Just during the Mandalorian Wars. I fail to see how Atton thinking she may have been good looking once has any bearing. As for her hair color, that doesn't quite explain why the other sisters have white hair. Please don't make these kind of speculative posts anywhere again. --Redemption^25px(Talk) 01:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Some clues why Kreia and Kae might be the same person. First, Atton says Kreia must have been beautiful once, and Kreia herself says Kae was said to be beautiful. Kreia and Kae are both said to be Revans first master, not merely one of his masters. Also note that while Kreia eventually admits that Revan was her padawan, the Disciple never lists Kreia among Revan's masters, even when he talks about how the masters should accept some responsibility for fallen students like Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, Revan, and Malak. If Kreia was exiled for her teachings leading to the dark side, she would have been a prime candidate among those flawed masters, yet Mical never mentions her. Also, both Kreia and Kae were exiled from the jedi order at roughly the same time, yet only Kreia ever says that Kae was exiled because she had a child (and is that a valid reason considering that Jolee was never exiled for taking a wife, while Krynda Draay is both married and has a son?). Kreia and Kae were at Malachor V, Kae is said to have died there, and Kreia trained Nihilus and Sion there, and both were thought dead in the Mandalorian Wars. Then there is her name, Kreia. If you take the "K" from Kae and put it together with Traya, removing the "T", you get "Kraya", which would seem to sound vaguely familiar if spoken. When you confront Atris, she says Kreia is not Kreia's name, and it would be strange for Atris to infer Kreia's real name is Traya, since that is the title Atris gives herself at the time. For a collection of the clues that suggest Kreia is Arren Kae, check here: http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Update%2058/index.html Jediphile 13:54, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Here is a video with more clues, but it's still not enough. There is still no canon source actually stating that Kreia and Arren Kae are one and the same.--Jinger 14:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• At Jediphile, The Handmaiden's Hair color was white because they were Echani, who typically have naturally white hair, pale skin, and blue eyes(I think blue eyes, it may be grey or white.. I don't remember exactly..) but anyway. This could also explain why Atris has white Hair, and is served by the Echani Handmaidens. as there clearly have been a Few Echani who could feel the Force. I could also Speculate that the Mother of the Handmaidens all but the Last could possibly Be Atris herself! hence her hatred for Keia if she is in fact actually Arren Kae?
  • Atris is not the mother of any of the sisters. Arren Kae fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Atris did not. Also, the mother of the handmaiden sisters was married to Yusanis. Besides, for that to be even remotely true, Atris would have had to be involved with Yusanis at the time when the exile followed Revan to war. So there's no evidence for this of any sort. I might equally well argue that there is no evidence that Arren Kae is Brianna's mother at all, since we know that only from Brianna - who never met her mother - and Atris and Kreia, who are both notorious for their troubled relationship with the truth. Out of the blue, yes, but there is as much proof for that as what you suggest. There is circumstantial evidence to suggest that Kreia MIGHT be Arren Kae, however. Also, you forgot to sign. Jediphile 02:07, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
• There is also another problem with the Kreia is Arren Kae theory. If Kreia is Kae, then she conceived a child with Yusanis, the Echani general. And Revan, Kreia's student, would one day slay Yusanis. But in KotOR II, she neither makes mention of Yusanis nor does she show resent to either Revan or Yusanis. It could be she was unaware of the event or she didn't care much for Yusanis. Just a thought.

Masterfred 16 03:04, January 28, 2010 (UTC)Masterfred 16 11:00, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Someone vandalized this article.

Kreias quote at the top says Im a g im a g yessir!

Last name

I've been thinking about this for a few months and to be honest, I can't seem to speak it out just yet. Do any of you guys have a clue what her last name could be? 72.82.9.127 00:04, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• No. -- I need a name (Complain here) 00:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
• No. Drewton 01:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Darth Traya to Kreia

Was moving Darth Traya to Kreia discussed? Drewton 01:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• It has, and it can't be much of a spoiler, she was revealed to be a sith fairly early in the game (First conversation onboard the Ebon hawk if the exile had a decent intelligence level) --Dixieboy 23:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Kreia and Arren Kae

Even though Kreia being Arren Kae is speculation, this cut dialouge implies that they are the same person and should be put in Behind the scenes.

Handmaiden: I cannot dishonor the Exile anymore then I can dishonor the memory of my mother.

Kreia: Foolish words. Perhaps I could simply marr your face to show how foolish your clinging to a memory of her is. Or perhaps the truth would leave a greater wound.

Handmaiden: Your words are hollow, Traya. Your lies will end here today. If not by my hand, then by the Exile's.

Kreia: Hollow? Then know the truth and suffer for it. Arren Kae did not die at Malachor, or at least not in the way you believe. Look into your feelings... Drewton 16:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• That's a piece of fanon that was made up to look like cut content. It's phony. No where in the dialog.tlk is anything that remotely resembles that, besides her actual lines of "Think before you throw away your life for him. Lust unfulfilled. Dance unfinished. Love requited..." It stays out. Nice try in getting your speculation bullshit into the article. It's not happening. --Redemption^25px(Talk) 18:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry, I thought it was real. I should have checked the dlg file first. It's not my fanon, I found it in the archives. If I saw fanon about Kreia and Arren Kae in the article I would remove it. Drewton 21:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

listen, im not saying its real, but i thought i saw somthing like that in a cut content movie on youtube. as i said i dont know if its true or not, i just thought id throw it out there.

• There was cut content slightly like that on Malachor. However, if she said she was Arren Kae in the video, it was a mod. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 17:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
• First attempt at any kind of wiki editing here, but I had to throw in the information I just found in KotOR II. This is dialog between the exile and the disciple on Dantooine, and presumably can be unlocked on the Ebon Hawk as well.

Exile: Do you know who trained Revan?

Desciple: Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques. It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order.

We do know that Kreia trained Revan, and we do have some evidence to suggest that Kae trained Revan. Could we therefor assume that Kreia is in fact Arren Kae? 98.166.33.1 20:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)Fuzzy Tenrub

• • This is the same kind of reasoning people have tried to use to say that Kavar was the Exile's Master, but unfortunately this isn't enough proof in and of itself. Yoda is not listed as Obi-Wan's Master, even though Obi-Wan tells Luke that Yoda "instructed" him.--Goodwood 20px ^{(Alliance Intelligence)} 20:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Lord of the Sith?

Is Kreia not considered a Dark Lord of the Sith? And if not, why not? It was said in the game that both Sion and Nihilus were here apprentices before they betrayed her. Shouldn't the fact that she was considered the leader and likely founder make her a Dark Lord for the time before the other two overthrew her? Mistrx75 06:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

She was the leader, yes, but I haven't seen any lore which actually names her as Dark Lord of the Sith, only as a standard "Sith Lord". In any case, I don't believe "Traya" was the kind of Sith who would really feel she needed the title. She shows scorn towards the Sith of Revan's empire, and her little speeches on Atris's fall and the True Sith indicate that she may not have really considered herself much of a Sith either: "'Sith' is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe."

To her, the Sith were just a means to an end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she just skipped over the pretence and just stuck to being "Lord of Betrayal". --Kessel 17:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

• Kreia is one of the Sith Triumverate of Sith Lords, and when the exile asks about Sion in the game, she proceeds to describe the three Sith Lords who are chasing the exile. One of those three she describes is clearly herself. So she does count herself as a Sith Lord, even though she also argues to Atris that Sith does not adequately describe what she is. But then she also argues that Nihilus cares nothing about the Sith. I think both Kreia, Sion, and Nihilus all need to be counted as Sith Lords. They were the Sith Triumverate, after all. Jediphile 04:09, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
• During her confrontation with the Exile, Atris says of Kreia, "She is one of the Lords of the Sith, one of those who murdered the Jedi, and she holds the death of the galaxy in her hands."--ElvisTheCat 06:28, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Kreia/Darth Traya

There are perfectly valid reasons for moving the Kreia page to Darth Traya. This is the previous decision:

I believe this matter should be opened for discussion again - not just for Kreia, but for all Sith characters.

So we're really going to need to sort the Kreia name and picture thing out, as it's getting damn confusing and everyone keeps changing things. What I don't understand is why Anakin Skywalker, though having died under the name "Darth Vader" (I don't recall him stating before his death that he wished to be called "Anakin" again, though I suppose this must also be a hotly debated point), has his younger picture and birth name in the infobox, whilst Kreia has an infobox name inconsistent with the page title and an infobox image of her only briefly seen dark side persona. I suggest a compromise: that the page remain "Kreia" and include her better known brown-robed appearance, and that the infobox name be "Kreia / Darth Traya" in accordance with my suggestion for the renaming of Sith characters --Kessel 11:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Anakin's infobox picture is of younger Anakin because his Force ghost was of younger Anakin, unlike Obi-Wan. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 12:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

This is what I'm talking about: there are too many variables, and current policy is confusing. Anakin spent most of his life as Darth Vader, which he is known best as, yet there is no mention of the sort in his infobox. Furthermore, how do we decide on the standard for infobox image? Is it their best known appearance (as with Ulic Qel-Droma) or their final appearance (as with Anakin)? Furthermore, what about infobox style? Should identity as a Sith character be indicated over and above identity as a Jedi character? Should ex-darksiders get a new infobox style to indicate that they died good men and women, but were not good, clean Jedi all the way? Whatever the decision, we need a stronger, clearer and more objective system than the current one. --Kessel 13:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

• Personally, I think this issue would need to be solved on a case-by-case basis. As for this article, I say leave it at Kreia. She rejected both the light and the dark sides and took the name Kreia (if that wasn't her original name to begin with). Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 14:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • However, she died as Darth Traya. I agree this issue needs to be solved case-by-case, but I think the best way is who do they consider themselves to be at the moment of their death (or their latest moment if they're not yet dead). Kreia was Darth Traya in game when you kill her, she retook that name in the end.Jedi-Sith 14:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Kreia appears to be a unique case. While she may have retaken the name "Darth Traya" at the end, I don't know if she became a Sith again. But that's just my opinion. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 14:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Did Kreia even call herself Traya? The name 'Darth Traya' that appeared above her semeed to be more of a game mechanic. She seemed to be more of a Vergere at the end; neither Sith nor Jedi, just with the purpose of destroying the Force. She gave the title of Darth Traya to Atris. And, as she said, Those are titles, words you cling to as the darkness falls around you. "Sith" is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe.Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 15:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
        • Yes, she does at least once. "Know that there was once a Darth Traya. And that she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. Who has been betrayed in their heart, and will betray in turn." --Brukhar 03:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
          • Notice the phrasing. She's acknowledging that she once was Darth Traya, but there is a new Traya (i.e., Atris and not her). Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 11:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
            • Hmm, that's a valid interpretation, although I had always taken it to mean that Kreia still held the knowledge of betrayal and could re-assume her title as Darth Traya when the time was right. However, I do see what you're saying and it's possible (especially given the original plans by ObsidianEnt (where Atris, not Kreia, was Darth Traya). Though if that's the case I don't see how that helps us resolve the Jedi/Sith infobox issue. --Brukhar 14:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
              • After playing through the game a few times, and taking note of Kreia's dialogue, I believe that she didn't become a Sith again at the end. Perhaps Obsidian made the change from Atris to Kreia as Traya relatively late into development, so they just put Kreia in without changing the "Darth Traya" tag. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 19:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Let's put it this way: "Darth Traya" was only really a title she used, not an alternative persona - anyone who's played the game should agree that Kreia never stopped being Kreia; at least not in her time with the Exile.

Anyway, I disagree with naming on a case-by-case basis: I suggest that all names used by the character be appropriately represented in the infobox. I believe it is a more encyclopaedic way of representing the information, and leaves less room for personal opinion. --Kessel 21:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

• And if Kreia destroyed the Force, as she wanted to, there would be no Sith or Jedi. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 22:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Putting all the names for a character in the infobox would, frankly, look horrible. I could just see "Alek Squinquargesimus/Darth Malak." Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 22:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Well, what about doing one per line or something similar? Because quite frankly, the alternative of picking just one title creates bias towards a character. (IE, Darth Traya being inherently evil, as opposed to Kreia, which doesn't imply an alignment). Also, the lack of listing various titles might create confusion, especially used with characters whose identities are not revealed until later into the game or book. (IE, the Jedi Exile meets Kreia, and therefore a Wookiepedia user looks up "Kreia" on the site, only to be redirected to "Darth Traya", which confuses him.) An important thing to keep in mind is that not all Wookiepedia users are experts on the topic. Additionally, something to keep in mind is *IF*Kreia's true identity is revealed in the future (ie, Arren Kae or Krynda Draay), what would you then list her title as? Would you make it the new identity, or Kreia, or Darth Traya? --Brukhar 00:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
      • I agree with Grand Moff Traner. Doing it because not all Wookieepedia users are experts is not encyclopedic. If Kreia is Arren Kae or Krynda Draay, it would be best in my opinion for the page to remain Kreia, because everyone later called her Kreia. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 00:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
        • I agree that the infobox should be Kreia, but as of right now, it's Darth Traya. That's why I said the above, not because I believe it shouldn't be Kreia. Since everyone knows her as Kreia, I think the page name and infobox should both list her as Kreia, and it should remain that way regardless of what future name changes/identities emerge. If you're going to list Darth Traya in the infobox, shouldn't Kreia be there too?--Brukhar 01:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
          • My vote goes for putting Kreia, and only Kreia, in the infobox. It looks good with Drewton's latest edit. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 11:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The current pic looks good. Flashfire212, this is.

• Personally, I feel as though we should change her to Darth Traya. While the Exile never calls her such, she according to the targeting reticule, or whatever, is Darth Traya, not Kreia. And thi squote from Jedi vs. Sith: Essential Guide to the Force shows that after the destruction of Malachor V, she was referred to as Traya:

• • Thst's why I think the article name should be changed.--Jedi Kasra 00:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Although I think the artice should be called Darth Traya, I see the need to point out that for about 99% of the game the targeting reticule calls her Kreia. Its pretty much the same with Jacen Solo. NaruHina ^Talk 20px 21:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Considering that Deesra wasn't present and didn't know about what Kreia said to the Exile during her travels, I don't think that's an adequate reason for moving the article. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 01:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Kreia's existance was mostly unknown to the galaxy after she was overthrown by Sion and Nihilus, so Darth Traya is likely the only name, or most recent name, that could be found for her. Also, none of the Jedi, excluding Atris and the Exile, knew of her plot to destroy the Force as far as we know. The targeting reticule is more of a game mechanic. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 01:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Yeah, but what does Kreia tell the Exile? "There must always be a Darth Traya." And that is her.--Jedi Kasra 17:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Also, in the Essential Guide to the Force on page 145, its says this:

• • Firstly, when Kreia says there must always be a Darth Traya, she is not referring to herself but Atris. And again, Gannod Chant did not know of Kreia's conversations with the Exile. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 17:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Same thing as what Grand Moff Tranner said. And as I said before, Kreia's existance was mostly unknown to the galaxy after she was overthrown by Sion and Nihilus, so Darth Traya is likely the only name, or most recent name, that could be found for her. There must always be a Darth Traya doesn't necessarily mean someone who is called Darth Traya, only someone who has the same beliefs and/or uses betrayal. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 17:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• But, Kreia was not redeemed, despite her saying to the Exile,

And Atris despite falling to the dark side, never did take the name of Darth Traya, did she? Plus, when you ask Atris about Kreia, she says that "Kreia" is not her name. This could be interpreted that Kreia retitled herself "Darth Traya" or it could be a reference to her original name, if her name wasn't really Kreia. She was called "Kreia" by the Exile because that is what she called her throughout the whole adventure. Atton refers to her as "Sith". And just because the Exile called her Kreia doesn't mean that we shouldn't change the article to Darth Traya. Obviously, someone was calling her Darth Traya after the destruction of Malachor V, where else did Deesra got the name of Traya? Also, remember, Sith such as Darth Vader and Darth Caedus responded to their names, Anakin and Jacen, respectively. Let's face it, whether called Kreia or not, she died as "Darth Traya".--Jedi Kasra 18:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

• • Because that's not the whole quote, its taken out of context, Sir. I agree with your position, and if I had the rest I'd post it but she later said that she was hoping the Exile would say that and that it was too late. NaruHina ^Talk 20px 21:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Whether she was redeemed or not doesn't change if she was Darth Traya. When she died, she acted as neither Jedi nor Sith, only trying to destroy the Force. In the final cut of the game, Atris never took the name, but from what I've heard it was cut because Obsidian wasn't given enough time. It seemed to be implied anyway, though. Atton always calls her Kreia; I don't remember him calling her 'Sith' until maybe after the Jedi Masters were killed. What the historians learned about Kreia likely originiated from Malachor V, when she was called Darth Traya. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 18:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Yes, Atton does call her Sith after she killed the Masters. And if you play the canon female Exile, Mical, will discover that she was Traya, but she makes him forget who she really is. She's Traya, guys. So if she is known in universe post 3,951 BBY as Darth Traya, the only logical conclusion would be to change the name to Traya.--Jedi Kasra 19:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Again, no one heard of the conversations between the Exile and Kreia, in which Kreia said that she was once a Sith, "once" being the key word. She gave up being a Jedi and a Sith, which makes putting this page at "Darth Traya" rather stupid. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 20:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Yeah, but that conversation happens during the quest to find the lost Masters, not after Kreia once again becomes Sith. Why doesn't someone just ask a LFL official, or the game developers?--Jedi Kasra 20:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Kreia being a Sith is only Atton's opinion, and he knew nothing of her plot to destroy the Force. Kreia didn't tell Mical that her name was specifically Darth Traya. If there are very few recordings in history post-4 BBY or 100 BBY of Anakin and everyone knew him only as Vader, does that mean his page should be moved to Darth Vader? Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 22:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• No, of course not. But further evedence for Kreia being a Sith is at the title screen. If you play as a Sith, you end up at the main screen, but if you play the canonical light side version, Darth Traya appears, and since only Sith appear at the title screen.--Jedi Kasra 23:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  • That's, like the targeting reticule, more of a game mechanic. Sion had to be shown at the beginning because he was the only Sith shown until Telos, then it was Nihilus, and after Nihilus died they most likely didn't want to use Sion again so instead they used Kreia. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 23:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
• Also, if you use the Force sight power, you'll see that she's colored red, for being dark-sided, when through the whole game she's consistently colored grey, for being neutral.--Jedi Kasra 23:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Dark side doesn't mean Sith. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 01:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
• After the Exile defeats Atris, I believe she tells her that Kreia is Sith. I don't know the exact dialogue, but she confirms that she is one of the Dark Lords, and that Kreia is no longer her name.--Jedi Kasra 14:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • If you can provide that quote, I'll concede. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 16:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
• Give me a few days, and I'll have it. Til' then.--Jedi Kasra 22:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
• While the reticule calls her "Darth Traya", the script only calls her "Kreia" in the Malachor sections. And the last line possible to give to her is "Rest now, Kreia. Your time in this place is over." She died known as Kreia. - Lord Hydronium 23:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • That's good evidence to support keeping the page where it is now. I never thought about the script itself. Thank you, Lord Hydronium. Jedi Kasra, I'm sorry, but now I must take back what I said earlier. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 23:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
• Yeah, but like I said, she called Kreia such throughout the whole game. She wanted to redeem Kreia. As for the Solo-Skywalker clan, they called Jacen "Caedus" in an attempt to detach themselves from him. There are a bunch of sources that clearly state that Kreia was Darth Traya, like this one from Star Wars Insider #88:

Aren't articles in Star Wars Insider like these considered canon? This source called her Traya, the New Essential Chronology and the Essential Guide to the Force call her Traya, and they were all released after KotOR II. What more do we need?--Jedi Kasra 23:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

• • NEC and EGTTF both use the name "Kreia" as well (though they say "Darth Kreia" for some reason). - Lord Hydronium 23:42, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Note: On pg. 24 of The New Essential Chronology, it mentions, "Darth Kreia", Dan Wallace said it was an error, but it was repeated in the Essential Guide to the Force, although it was the same paragraph from the NEC.--Jedi Kasra 23:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
• And like I said, Dan Wallace said it was a mistake.--Jedi Kasra 23:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • But the real question is this: Which part of it was a mistake? The "Darth" part, or the "Kreia" part? Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 00:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• Lord Hydronium's evidence is very good. And the Exile did know of the Traya identity halfway through the game - ""Know that there was once a Darth Traya." Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 23:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
• Here's a link to what he said. Dan Wallace's blog on the NEC: --Jedi Kasra 00:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Doesn't do us much help, though. Grand Moff Tranner 20px ^(Comlink) 00:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Yeah. Mistake or no, she's still canonically called Kreia in later years. - Lord Hydronium 00:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• Still called Kreia in later years? She is also called Traya, more frequently than she's called Kreia. She is more commonly known, amongst the Jedi and Sith, as Darth Traya. What more do we need?--Jedi Kasra 00:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Can't somebody ask Dan Wallace or somebody else whether she is Traya or Kreia? Surely he is on starwars.com?--Jedi Kasra 00:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • She was known as Kreia when she died. She was known as Kreia to everyone around her in her last years. She's still known as Kreia in later years, though her other name is used interchangeably as well. I think that's plenty keep the title at Kreia. - Lord Hydronium 00:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
    • And I would highly recommend against bugging Dan over what the title of our article should be. - Lord Hydronium 00:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• People knew Jacen Solo as such when he died, he was known as such to everyone around him in his last years, Caedus is probably used as interchangebly as Jacen Solo, so why did we change that article to Darth Caedus? If the Exile and her companions called her Kreia after her death, why did Deesra Luur Jada refer to her as "Darth Traya", instead of Kreia? It's obvious I'm at the losing end of this argument, and I apologize for making an issue out of this.--Jedi Kasra 01:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • The difference is Caedus is for all intents and purposes officially named that, he thinks of himself as it, everyone calls him it, the out of universe stuff in the Dramatis Personae and blurb for Millennium Falcon call him that, and 100 years later that's the only way we've ever heard him referred to. - Lord Hydronium 01:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Kreia didn't say to Atris "Oh, by the way, my name is Darth Traya" as Jacen did. If people are serious above asking LucasArts, I'm registered on a forum where there's weekly LucasArts Q&A. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 01:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• Yes, I actually am serious. Before we close this discussion, will you please ask them, just to be safe?--Jedi Kasra 03:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Yep, but the forum is temporarily down right now. I think the Q&A might be just for The Force Unleashed, but I could ask one of the administrators to send it anyway because it's for Wookieepedia. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 03:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• Thanks. With an article we really need to be sure before we decide to keep/switch something.--Jedi Kasra 03:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
• Here are some quotes from the game, the first one is from the dark sided version, but even if she is redeemed, it would probably still apply since Atris could no longer fill the role of Darth Traya if redeemed.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Timeline Issue

On the article page, it states the following:

"It came the time when Revan was apprehended, stripped of his identity, and sent after his former apprentice. With Malak's defeat, however, memories of his former self came back to haunt him, and he remembered the academy on Malachor.[6] He made for the shattered remains of Malachor V and found Kreia, who completed his training and made him ready to leave the Jedi Order once and for all."

However, I was always under the impression that Kreia teaching Revan how to leave the Order once and for all took place just Before the Mandalorian Wars. Revan did return to Malachor V, and thus rediscovered knowledge of the True Sith, and went off to the Unknown Regions. I don't think he met Kreia at Malachor V, as I was always under the impression she arrived to Malachor V later, along with Sion and Nihilus, after fleeing Korriban. (As per the "Several dark lords were suspected to have fled to the corners of the galaxy" loading screen message on Korriban). Was it explicitly stated that Revan found Kreia on Malachor V again? Or was this an assumption made by whoever wrote this article? If it was stated, can you please provide a source for the "finding Kreia" part.

--Brukhar 01:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

• It's all bollocks, so I removed it. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council} 08:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
• Kreia says Revan came to her both before and after his amnesia, and by that time she was already thought to be dead and nowhere to be found, so...--Jinger 10:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
  • She said it was after he had killed Malak which makes that moot. NaruHina ^Talk 20px 09:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Prediction about the fate of the Mandalorians?

Hello, first time writing here.

Kreia predicts the fate of the Mandalorian people in Malachor.

"They will die a death that will last millennia, until all that remains is their code, their history, and, in the end, the shell of their armor upon the shell of a man,too easily slain by Jedi." --Darth Traya[src]

The explanation for that is this:

"Traya was able to predict the death of Jango Fett at the hands of Mace Windu nearly 4,000 years later, in a prophecy relating to the fate of the Mandalorians. "

This explanation seems to ignore Boba Fett, infact, "shell of a man" would seem to be a good description of a clone, which he was. Atleast, while playing, the first thing to pop into my head was Boba, not Jango. Though, I'm not certain, what is the canon status of, whether or not Boba was infact slain in ROTJ? Nevertheless, the mandalorian "line" did not die with Jango.

Jarska 16:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)Jarska

Boba want killed, so her prediction doesnt refer to him.92.20.223.90 12:56, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

"too easily slain by Jedi" is a comment on Boba being killed by Luke in the 6th movie. The writer might not've read the expanded-universe material in which Boba esccapes the Sarlaac and becomes Mandalore during the Yuuzhang Vong invasion. When Boba Fett was alone he would be in Mandalorian armor but not a proper mandalorian b/c the clans're gone, so "all that remains is...their armor". During Jango Fett's lifetime there were still other Mandalorians. --(Unsigned)

Expanded Universe material would generally acknowledge other EU material as being true. Therefore, no - I doubt it's Boba. --Kessel 22:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Another consideration is that HAN accidentally bashed Boba's jet pack, sending him into the pit. Not Luke. -BaronGrackle 18:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, he didnt die at all, and certainately not at the hands of a jedi, therfore the prediction doesnt refer to Boba. –K.A.J^{•T•C•E•} 18:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Boba was a clone, so he might not be considered a "true" mandalorian... maybe an anti-cloning thought by the writers...

• No. It would hardly be right for a non-true-mandalorian to be mandalore would it? - Kingpin13^{Cantina Battle Ground} 08:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
• She could have seen Jango but not Boba, you know...or a possible future (which, apparently, is "always in motion"). -Milo Fett^[Comlink] 15:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
• Boba wasn't a mandalorian-he just adopted the clothing in honor of his father. Jango was a mandalorian seeing as he was raised by them. So Kreia was right in a sense that the mandalorians will die a death because Jango Fett was the last mandalorian with mandalorian knowledge, Boba knew nothing about the mandalorians. Devan2 18:15, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
• I'm not sure if that is fair to say, I mean he was raised by his father for a good 8 years or so. One would think that if you were raised by a Mandolorian you would pick up a thing or two about them. While I'm not sure what we would consider a true "Mandolorian" to be, I don't think it is a valid claim to say he knew nothing about the mandolorians. In fact now that I am thinking about it, Jango taught their language to him; and as after taking a linguistic anthropology course, I can say without doubt that you can learn loads about a culture from their language. The Inuit have around 20 odd words for snow, I wouldn't be surprised if the mandolorians have around 50 for Explosion. Or to put it bluntly, it is way too much of a generalization to say that Boba Kewn nothing about the mandalorians. Darth Dar Binks 09:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Female Sith

I think you're forgetting to put in the category and I would suggest we put it in, since she was a Sith Lord (and it's being protected).

Interwiki

Since the page is shielded I can't add interwiki link for russian version. Please add [[ru:????]] to the list. --Darth Igel 05:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Complete Revision of Sub sub-section Encounter with the Exile

In as much as being a newly registered member, I decided that I would ask for opinions from others before doing a complete revision of this Sub sub-section - and before possibly stepping on a few toes. I have been thinking of doing this for a while now, long before I registered. It appears to me that there are several points stated that are incorrect or misleading.

• both strengthening each other in the knowledge that they had survived the void that had befallen them - I believe this references something that Kreia briefly mentions to the Exile about both of them being cut off from the Force in the past, but it doesn't seem to work here
• Bound by hands of death - The only sources I've found state that hands of death is a carnivorous plant
• Kreia had the only means of accessing the Ebon Hawk's navicomputer.[12] - I may be wrong, but in the pc version of the game that I played, this was speculation by Peragus employees, while only the utility droid T3-M4 truly had access

I also wanted to change the title to something like - First Encounter with the Exile - or some such, although this too isn't totally correct, since Kreia is the one who brings the Exile aboard the Ebon Hawk from the Harbinger. Lastly, I would like to add more information. I would very much like to hear what others have to say about my revision idea. Cylka 06:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I think someone might care about those little phrases, but go ahead all the same, it's not like they won't be able to change it again. It's true, however, that Kreia had the only means of accessing the navicomputer. As you leave the dorms on Peragus, Kreia meets you on the administration level, and if you tell her you don't want her to tag along, she says "and if you cannot see beyond yourself and your own needs, then you should know that I have the only means of accessing the Ebon Hawk's navicomputer. Without it, we both are trapped here." --Jinger 12:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for letting me know. I must have missed that one. I most definitely plan on spending some time on research before I edit anything. There's no sense in editing to make things worse instead of better. Cylka 20:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Kreia/Darth Traya Rnd. 2

Since the KotOR Campaign Guide says she died as Darth Traya, is there any reason why she shouldn't be moved to that name?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:31, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Some more food for thought. The TOR website also calls her Darth Traya, and says she was always a Sith when she was traveling with the Exile. It also says that after departing for the unknown reigons, neither Revan nor the Exile were ever heard from again. Jayce Carver 09:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

• For simplicity purposes, please post all future comments on the matter here. // ~mikah~ 22:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Fall to the dark side

this part kinda reports the small resure that was on LA page before kotor2 release (as lore) but what we see in game seem to point to a different story.

it seem that Kreia was present at malachor V at the time of the final battle, she describes pretty well the "cruelity" of malachor many time into the game (dialogue with bao dur about the mass generator, the dialgoues with the jedi enclave, even the opening dialogue with the exile on malachor when she ask if malachor is as she remembered it) the dialogue with the jedi enclave also heavily point to the fact that Kreia partecipated to the war herself and so was not "in search of clues following Revans steps", she describes how every battle in the manda wars where "crafted" to draw the jedi to the dark side.

She also knew that the exile cut himself from the force and... - Kreia always refers to the sith lords (herself included) as wounds in the force - Kreia also states (DS dialogues, jedi enclave) that the sith lords learnt to feed on the force from him, that of course imply that they where all present on malachor V at the time when the planet was destroyed and the exile cut himself from the force - Kreia also states that she instructed other sith lords (when she tells her story before Traya shortcut) - there is also the dialogue after the landing of the ebon hawk on Dxun moon that clearly shows how Kreia knew what happened there, she knows there was a base there and that a bloody battle (that the exile fought in) was fought nearby.

all of this heavily point to the fact the Kreia partecipated in the manda wars directly and had probably a part in the major battles as Dxun or Malachor V.

Honestly i'm for the theory for Kreia=Kae, but that is not strictly necessary, what is important is that in the game there are tons of hints about her direct involment in the war, so is not that likelly that she was cast out in the later stages of the war and started to follow Revan to see why her teaching failed... she was probably there at his side. Even when the jedi masters tells her that they tought she died on malachor point out that she partecipated to that battle, with the report shown in the article that sentence doesnt make much sense.

in some dialogues she also point out that to partecipate in the war was the right thing to do (i think one with canderous but not 100% sure :P) this also shows that she never questioned her teachings as Revan did the right thing, so it doesnt make much sense that she travel half the galaxy in search of answers about her possible failture if she think that to partecipate in war was right. Zilod 02:48, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The name of this article is officially "Kreia"

Forum:CT:Kreia...or Darth Traya?

Thank you for your attention. Graestan^(Talk) 04:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Where does "Kreia" come from?

Time to set the record stright. Arren Kae was a historian; she chronicled the history of the Jedi, as well as teaching padawans (among them, Revan). Then, once upon a time, Jedi Master Arren Kae fell in love with General Yusanis of the Echani (even though love is forbidden by the Jedi Code; she BETRAYS the Jedi). Yusanis, by the way, had already fathered 5 children (the handmaidens). Kae bears a child with Yusanis; the Jedi, angered, exile her, leaving her feeling BETRAYED herself (perhaps the whole Revan-teacher thing had something to do with it as well, but seeing as Kreia herself said that, I'm not so sure...). Kae and Yusanis leave for the Mandalorian Wars. Somewhere along the line, Kae "dies" at the last battle on Malachor V, leaving Yusanis with the baby. Yusanis then goes on to become a senator, he challenges Revan to a duel, he dies, yadda yadda yadda. Kae, on the other hand, isn't dead--she was merely broken, corrupted by the destruction wrought on Malachor and sought refuge with a little group called the Sith. She became a Sith Lord with the alias "Darth Traya" and allied herself with Sion and Nihilis. Like with the Jedi, she chronicled the history of the Sith in the Trayus Academy, learning the ancient Sith secrets, all that good stuff. But, as is the nature of the Sith, Sion and Nihilis clung to their power and exiled Traya (with Sion it was more of a traditional Star Wars master-apprentice thing; Nihilis, the Lord of Hunger, just wanted some more power), BETRAYING her. Traya believed that the constant struggle between good and evil was exploited by the Force to achieve a measure of balance; or worse, the good-evil struggle was a game to the Force (if it was a sentient entity) where all life were the puppets. Traya, disgusted by this revelation, sought a way to kill the Force. She finds the exile, and she had to think of a clever, non-revealing 2nd alias quick. "Kae...Traya...K-Traya...Kraya...Kreia!" See [1] for reference. 69.114.37.162 07:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)Scifidownbeat

• I read the first two sentences and then the last sentence. Keep speculation off the talk pages. Really. Do we really need to beat this dead horse? --Redemption^25px(Talk) 07:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't realize that wasn't what the talk pages were for. I'll keep further speculation to myself, then.

Prophecy about Mandalorians

"They will die a death that will last millennia, until all that remains is their code, their history, and, in the end, the shell of their armor upon the shell of a man, too easily slain by Jedi."

Surely the above would prophesy (with the same accuracy) the death of Boba Fett to Luke, instead of Jango Fett to Mace Windu? —Unsigned comment by 217.43.230.227 (talk • contribs)

• Considering Boba Fett's not dead, no. -- I need a name (Complain here) 01:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Isn't he dead, canonically, according to George Lucas? 76.71.154.137 22:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

• No, Boba Fett is NOT canonically dead. -- Fett 1138 20px ^{(HoloNet Transceiver)} 23:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Boba Fett was never technically killed by Luke Skywalker if u had read the starwars series u would see that Boba Fett is still there and he actually helps train Han Solo and Leia's daughter Jaina to kill Jaina's brother Jacen who turns into Darth Caedus, however I believe that it is still possible for Kreia's prediction to come true with some future mandalorian leader seeing as the mandalorians did not die off after Master Windu lobed off Jango Fetts head

Darth Traya

I'm sorry if I bother people by bringing this up again, I know it has already been debated. However, I really think that Darth Traya should be the name of this article. As wookiepedia is written from an in-universe perspective, and as she was publicly known as Darth Traya, it just makes sense. Please tell me what you think. Maxi6 21:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC)Maxi6

• I personally believe that Darth Traya is the more canonically correct name, but we've had discussions here and here before. The CT clearly indicates that a large majority of the users here likes 'Kreia' better, so if this was put to another vote, I highly doubt the outcome would be any different, even allowing for a number of swayed voters. SoresuMakashi^{(Everything I tell you is a lie)} 22:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I guess you may be right. But what about the infobox? I remember it used to say Darth Traya, even though the article was titled Kreia. When and why was it changed? Also, if it says Kreia, the image should be of her in her brown robes. Personally, though, I think that the infobox should say Darth Traya. Maxi6^{(Lightside Forever )}

• The infobox should be titled whatever the article name is, which in this case is Kreia. SoresuMakashi^{(Everything I tell you is a lie)} 22:55, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I know I'm late to the party and the decision was to keep the article as Kreia, but after reading her CG entry I am convinced that she should be known as Darth Traya. The guide states that she did not abandon her Sith identity after being cast out by Sion and Nihilius (as we presumed), therefore during her travel with Exile she war still Traya, using her old name to manipulate the Exile. I'm leaving this comment because I hope that in the future another poll could be made and the article could be moved to its prorer name. Mauser 13:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

• I think we should change the name to Darth Traya, since The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide specifically say she became Darth Traya, and during her adventures with the Exile, she was still Traya, and she was going under the guise of Kreia.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• another reason for is that the image is of Darth Traya and not Kreia, like others on this wiki, it should be how she was latest known and she died unreedeemed so she died as Traya and not Kreia. Alexsau1991 22:52, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
• Yes, I'm a tad late, too, but she did die unredeemed. Anakin is listed as "Anakin" and not "Vader" because he died as Anakin. Jacen is listed as "Darth Caedus" because he died Darth Caedus. Why should this be any different? Qui-Gon Reborn Enter the realm of the fifth dimension... 20px 00:00, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
• The trouble is that Kreia herself seems to see Darth Traya as a title of sorts, when she tells Atris, "Know that there was once a Darth Traya. And that she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. Who has been betrayed in their heart, and will betray in turn. You have bathed in the knowledge of the Sith. But there is not enough truth in such teachings... but it will be a step for you. " So Atris was also Darth Traya, and when the exile confronts her, she says she is no longer Atris and that Atris has not existed for some time. It makes the whole Darth Traya name very ambiguous, whereas there is no doubt who Kreia is. Jediphile 14:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Lightsaber

From the article:

"Kreia was a woman who owned few possessions, which included simple Jedi robes and a self built green lightsaber. (references: KOTOR Campaign Guide and Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia)"

Does this mean that it would be considered acceptable to use an in-game screenshot of Kreia with a single-bladed green lightsaber in an article here on Wookieepedia? -MPK 19:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

• I would need to check the CSWE, but the CG does not mention anything about a green lightsaber, only a lightsaber. This may be a bit of fanon. Cylka^-talk- 20:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
  • The article itself cites the CSWE as a source specifically for the "green" part. I personally doubt that if someone was to fake Kreia's lightsaber color, they wouldn't put a fake source tag on it. -MPK 22:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
• I actually used the green part from the CSWE, it states that she used a green double-bladed lightsaber.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

  Are you sure? She can't possibly use a double-bladed lightsaber in the game. -BaronGrackle 17:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

  • In the game Kreia has only whatever lightsaber we find and give her, as she has none when she meets and joins up with the exile. Any saber she made herself would thus have to be before the game begins, and probably before she turned to the dark side and became Darth Traya for the first time. And obviously before Sion chopped off her hand. Jediphile 14:20, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Species?

• Has Kreia's species been verified as Human? It can be argued that she has Arkanian Traits; mainly her arrogant attitude and white eyes. —Unsigned comment by Logan Felipe (talk • contribs)
  • The KotOR Campaign Guide identifies her as human. Trak Nar ^{Ramble on} 06:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Kreia is in fact Arkanian. I was looking at the page on Arkanians and it says that they do see infrared and if you play Knights of the Old Republic and control Kreia, press on the left or right joystick (i forgot which) you see that she sees everything in infrared. Her eyes are also single white color, just as the page on Arkanians states. she also conceals her eyes the whole game, except for the end when the room you battle her in is DARK which the Arkanian page also backs up. That Arkanians tend to wear blinders to protect blinding light when on other planets but don't when its dark, like their home planet! LE' kudi 10/10/10 —Unsigned comment by 204.194.169.4 (talk • contribs)

• Again, the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide identifies her as Human. It also states that her eyes basically atrophied from lack of use since she went on marathon meditation sessions. What you are talking about are game mechanics and game mechanics are very rarely a reliable source for canon information. Cylka^-talk- 12:19, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Kreia taught Nihilus to devour worlds? Surely not.

"After she taught Nihilus the ability to devour entire worlds" it says. I sincerely doubt it. Nihilus' ability is unique and cannot be taught... according to Kreia herself. In the game, she describes Nihilus' ability like this: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." I think that sentence should be rephrased. Jediphile 01:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I believe that information comes from the Campaign Guide.--Jinger 01:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

• Yep. Campaign Guide. He unconsciously knew (and did it) but Kreia is the one who taught him to harness that and to use it most effectively. I don't think she could have taught him how exactly to do it in the first place. --Redemption^25px(Talk) 02:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
  • At the risk of splitting hairs, I would take that to mean that she taught him how to effectively use a power he already possessed rather than actually teaching him an ability, as the text currently states. The latter seems to suggest it was an ability she had herself and then passed onto Nihilus, and that is not the case. That sort of ambiguity should be avoided, because a misunderstanding can make the plot of TSL seem to fall apart - it is precisely because Kreia does not have Nihilus' ability herself that she needs the exile to carry out her revenge on Nihilus. Jediphile 11:31, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Kreia's age

'Cause this says she was born around 4,001 BBY and she died 3,951 BBY does this mean she was around 50? 'Cause she looks like she's 5,000 years old. LordDeathRay 19:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't get it, she just looks like an old lady whose name is not Cher.--Jinger 20:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, he does have a point, she is old. Really old. She's an old faget who has dark wrinkles everywhere. Revengous 20:22, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

the cause of her wrinkles is the dark side aka when Palatine was hiding jis aperice her loook like a healthy man in his late 50s but when he showed his darkised his body was destroyed and twisted so to say if traya fell to the darkside her body aged drastic to that of a really really really old woman.Theresa The Seer 15:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)Theresa The Seer

According to Chris Avellone on the Obsidian Forum Community, "Kreia looks 50, but like Yoda, who knows." Check here: http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=25061&view=findpost&p=184142 - then scroll down and find the first post with Avellone's name. Jediphile 14:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Kreia didn't kill the Jedi Masters on Dantooine

Read the dialouge Kreia speaks to the Jedi Masters on Dantooine when they attempt to block the exile from using the force. She doesn't kill them, she does to them what they attempted to do to the exile. She cuts them off from the force. "There are techniques in the force for which there is no defense." Now, I understand that everything that you know about this era in time has to be taken by the litmus test of: But did I hear that from Kreia? But there are times when it is obvious Kreia is speaking openly, and the fact that she did NOT want the Jedi Masters killed is a major factor in everything she does. She cuts the Masters off from the force, and the shock of having the force suddenly stripped from them, when it was everything they had relied on their entire lives, THAT is what killed them. That is also why upon examining their bodies, the Exile noticed them as worse then dead, they were an absense in the force. --Darth Callidous 00:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

• I don't remember her saying that she was just removing the force form them. But her actions (intentional or not) still caused their deaths. In real life that would be felony homicide. But in other cases in EU when a jedi lost the force; Ulic after the Battle of Yavin (TOTJ) or Luke on Myrik (Heir to the Empire); that didn't cause their deaths. But Kreia's actions still lead to the deaths of the three masters because they were interfering with her plans. Deanscotsmen022 17:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

thumb If Kreia wanted to show the Masters what the Exile had withstood, that would not be the effect of the Sever Force ability, but rather the destruction of their connections with life around them, which is what Darth Nihilus does, and he mastered the technique under Kreia's tutelage. We do see her shoot Force Drain at the Masters, don't we? Had the Masters used their Sever Force ability on themselves, they would have survived Kreia's attack in the same way the Exile does when Nihilus tries to consume her. Anyway they're dead, and Kreia still killed them, so I don't think the article should be changed.--Jinger 23:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

• Kreia killed them, pure and simple. Whether they died from the shock of being cut off from the force is immaterial. It would be like pushing someone off a ship and then claim it's not your fault they couldn't swim when they drown. She may have perferred they didn't die, but she accepted that possibility when she cut them off. Kreia isn't squeamish when it comes to these things - she has no problem making the harsh choice where lives are sacrificed and standing by her choice. Jediphile 14:08, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Hood or no hood?

I've been meaning to do this for a long time but never got around (or just forgot) anyway. Per several other articles, we usually determine an infobox with frontal head with clear shot of facial details. Why should Kreia be any different? Oh yes. That damn hood that is just so much part of her mystique. Anyway, thoughts on change to infobox? --Redemption^25px(Talk) 07:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC) File:Kreiadarknessatcore.jpg File:Kreia Trayus Hoodless.jpg File:Kreiajedienclavenohood copy.jpg My vote's on hoodless, maybe a slightly wider shot though.--Jinger 08:26, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

• The hooded version was printed in TCSWE, so it should stay as the more official. Mauser^Comlink 08:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Without the hood is better. –Victor 25px|link=Special:Contributions/Squishy_Vic ^{(talk page)} 08:41, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
• I fail to see how the hooded one being more "official" has any relevance on it's place in the infobox. --Redemption^25px(Talk) 18:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
• Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain there hasn't actually been a shot of Kreia sans-hood in canon. That shot is through manipulation of sourcefiles, is it not? Thus, we've (technically) no idea what her face actually looks like hoodless. My vote is hooded. Din's Fire 997 06:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Kreia's Fall movie. Nihilus throws her against the wall and her hood falls down.--Redemption^25px(Talk) 08:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
• Hoodless looks much better in the infobox and should be used anyway. I disagree that it should be any wider. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 22:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm a bit torn, because while seeing her hooded is more representative of how she appears in the game, seeing her without the hood is more telling for how she actually looks. I like neither of these picture, though, because they're picture of Darth Traya rather than the Kreia persona. Whatever picture of Kreia is used, she should have white eyes, not black. Jediphile 14:12, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
    • She last appeared as Darth Traya, so that's how she should appear in the infobox. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 14:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
      • In that case the image of Darth Vader in his infobox should be either of the unmasked dying Vader (Sebastian Shaw) or his subsequent forceghost (either Shaw or Hayden Christensen, depending on which version of "Return of the Jedi" Lucas says is currently canon), and not simply an image of Christensen from Episode III. Anakin is the most central character in Star Wars, so if he doesn't follow the principle of how he appeared last, then I don't see why that would apply any more to Kreia. Jediphile 16:35, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
        • The Christensen ghost is the canon one because it is part of the latest version of the OT. The ROTS promotional image is fine because there's absolutely no difference between his appearance in ROTS and in ROTJ, except for the robes which were Shaw's. Even his scar's still there. Drewton 20px ^{(Drewton's Holocron)} 16:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
          • Being a bluish, translucent forceghost doesn't count as different?!? I stand corrected... Then again, the idea of infobox images having to conform to the latest version also falls apart if you look at some other characters. Like Luke Skywalker, for example. Yes, that's Luke in ROTJ, but Luke has aged a lot since then visibly just from art on the covers of various novels. Also, the image of Lucien Draay looks nothing like he looked at the end of KotOR comic #35 when he was last seen. Jediphile 14:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
• If it pleases the court, I've uploaded Kreia-non Sith hoodless. --Redemption^25px(Talk) 18:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Looks good, but isn't the dark side appearance more appropriate? She is a Sith Lord.--Jinger 19:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
    • I agree of course — not everyone will. --Redemption^25px(Talk) 00:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

If we use the one with white eyes, we'll have to switch back to the Jedi (or Dark Jedi) character infobox. Perhaps we're beating a dead horse, that's been discussed for years now, hasn't it?--Jinger 13:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Seriously guys, either of the two hoodless images are better than the current main image. It frankly sucks. We need one or the other. Since it seems consensus deemed Kreia to be remembered as a Sith Lord (per TSL, yet the article isn't titled "Darth Traya"), then we should be using Redemption's dark-sided Kreia upload. We may be 'beating a dead horse' (again), but this is an issue of quality, not who she is. If we just leave the issue of who she is and what her article's title should be alone, we can just change the image (to dark-sided hoodless), no? –Victor 25px|link=Special:Contributions/Squishy_Vic ^{(talk page)} 21:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
• I presume there aren't anymore objections to replacing the current one with the hoodless version?--Redemption^25px(Talk) 09:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I'd like to put forth the motion that Redemption is a genius! Jayden Matthews 11:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
    • I say we remove that unhooded picture. Kreia was rarely seen without her hood, and that's how she died anyway. ^{Darth Anxor}20pxSith Order 19:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
      • The purpose of the main image is to accurately depict the characters appearance. How can we do that if her face is covered by a hood? Jayden Matthews 08:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
        • So we should have a picture of Malak without his jaw gear, then? 75.57.65.144 18:59, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Double-bladed lightsaber

Hi guys. I was wondering if someone could help understand something? In this article, it says that Kreia wielded a double-bladed lightsaber during her travels with the Exile. I realize that the fact that the player can't equip Kreia with a twin-bladed weapon would be considered a gameplay mechanic, but the fact remains that Kreia couldn't physically wield a double-bladed lightsaber due to only having one hand, and all other occasions of her wielding a Lightsaber depict her with a single-blade. My question would be - is the statement in the The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia based on Kreia's miniture? And if so, is it reliable? Jayden Matthews 09:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• The CSWE is considered the latest canon, therefore, it is what we must go by. The miniature features her without her left hand, and she still wields the saberstaff.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 12:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
• I guess she could use it telekinetically, having displayed a high level of proficiency in telekinetic lightsaber combat. But otherwise that's completely ludicrous.Kai Ell 00:18, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Owner of the Ebon Hawk?

Why the fuck is Kreia listed as owner of the Ebon Hawk? It belonged to the Jedi Exile!

• You forgot to sign. Still, I agree with the point you're making, as there is no evidence to that effect that I've ever seen. Yes, she implies it to the Jedi Exile, but that's not evidence. Jediphile 00:59, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Freaky image

Could we please change the image to something else? When I viewed this article I was freaked out by the image and im sure im not the only one?--Patrick123 10:06, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Photo-gallery supporting the 'Kreia is Handmaiden's mother' theory

Is it okay to include a link to the 'Let's Play' archives? They have a photo gallery of screenshots there supporting this theory.

http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Update%2058/index.html

I'm asking because this page is protected and I don't know how to add a ref. JimmmyThePipe 22:34, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah...it has been said by many that Kreia=Arren Kae , this was probably Obsidian's intention , but since the KOTOR campaign guide has canonized her as kreia...I dont think that Kreia can be considered to be arren kae's alias anymore, unless some official source states so..

it is true that arren kae and Kreia have many similarities:both were former jedi masters who were exiled then "died" on malachor v , both of them trained revan and both of them are very misterious characters...tough.this is all that we know, but as I stated before, there is no canon source that identifies Arren Kae and kreia being the same person.--Loub 17:42, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

There does not need to be. I came here to post the same link- and looking carefully enough, Arren Kae is most certainly Kreia, and vice-versa. I believe that this should be noted, and added into this Wikipedia entry- if only to show how ridiculously well written the character is- how well written the game is, despite it's broken state. The observant eye is rewarded in KOTOR II. So, yes. I think that the Arren Kae and Kreia articles should be merged, and it should be re-organized to support this theory, mostly because it is not a theory, but Truth.

• Unless an official source states so, Kreia is not Arren Kae. Fan speculation will not be noted in either of the articles as well. NAYAYEN:TALK 22:05, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I have a question? could kreia ever have been redeemed in the first place. In the end of the game it kinda of has a scene where she talks about how the exile has already saved her (even though I do not believe that this means that she is redeemed) because even though she was a sith she was attempting to destroy the force itself, soooo doesen't that kind of show that she was neither fully sith nor jedi? --72.2.253.60 01:32, June 23, 2010 (UTC) darth vecticus

Trying to destroy the Force doesn't make you a non-Sith. And because she was a Sith, yes, she could have been redeemed. Maxi6^(Speaketh!) 16:31, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

• Please read the template at the top of this talk page, both of you, this is discussion best suited for some other forum, not Wookieepedia, thanks. NAYAYEN:TALK 19:20, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
• Normally I would agree with NAYAYEN regarding fan theories. They don't normally have a place in articles regardless of how solid they are. But in this case, the Kreia=Arren Kae theory should be mentioned in the Bts. Not only is it pretty fuckin solid, it was specifically commented on as a "Good catch," in an interview with KOTOR II's lead writer, Chris Avellone. Even if it was paper thin, that'd still give the theory notability.SinisterSamurai 04:12, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

The Exile was not a former student of Kreia

You state "The Exile, a former student of Traya's..." the Exile was not a former student of Kreia, the Exile becomes her student in their jounry together. —Unsigned comment by Darth Traynus (talk • contribs)