Talk: Empire's Wrath

First significant plot/bio addition + to do

I've written up the first draft here, at least for as far as I am into TOR (Tatooine). It's not bad, but as it is a first draft, it will need both expansion and revision. My immediate thoughts on improvement:

• Needs to be completed. I can only write the story as far as I know it, which is currently Tatooine.
• Needs to be rechecked for both grammar and flow. I consider myself a pretty proud Grammar Nazi, but things always slip through the cracks and it would be better if someone else was revising as well--call it peer review
• Needs to be made gender-neutral. I knew this when I was writing, but for both brevity and the sake of trying to write sentences that actually made sense, I have frequently referred to this character as male. This should be addressed sooner rather than later--I have no intention of trying to dictate canon, and would like to see this fixed asap, but I'll need help.

-- DigiFluid 16:40, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

It also needs to be decided as to which alignment to write the article; you can play a light side Sith Warrior or a Dark Side one. I'd suggest trying to keep the article itself neutral as possible (IE, instead of 'choked the older couple to death' in reference to Jaesa's parents, say 'confronted the older couple and the lone Jedi') until Bioware gives us a little more to go on as far as the 'canon' path of the Sith Warrior, if there is one. A second section should detail the other path. IE, if the main article covers darkside, we need a section covering the light side alternatives in the main story. Just my two cents. LukeDanger 20:09, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

You may want to weigh in here, where that very issue is being discussed (specifically, the second vote). I'll admit I've been a bit premature in parts of this article with choosing dark side as the way to go with writing, as the vote is still open, but it's currently completely one-sided; that's the direction I've been writing in. Check it out and weigh in. You don't have enough edits to cast a vote, but there's discussion space at the bottom, and as many opinions as possible are a great thing in establishing consensus! -- DigiFluid 20:14, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Updated to-do list: Jan 20/2012

Been a couple weeks since I wrote the first to-do list, so I figure it's time for a revision on priorities:

• Completion! I have been writing this as I work my way through the storyline in-game, and due to this the article remains incomplete. This is likely to continue in this fashion until and unless someone who has finished this class quest steps in and polishes off the Warrior's story.
• PICTURES! More and more I'm noticing that there seems to be a severe shortage of TOR-related pictures on Wookieepedia. I'm a firm believer that a wall of text is a major deterrent when it comes to Wikis/Wikias, and so the article as it is now is not as good as it should be IMO. If anyone else out there is playing the Sith Warrior quest, some help with screenshots would be really fantastic. Obviously we can't have pictures of the Warrior him/herself, as the appearance is user-defined, but for places and people that the character interacts with, there's a wealth of things that could be screenshotted and added in here.
• Copy-editing and revisions are needed. There don't seem to be many of us working on this page, and in the spirit of Wiki/a, I don't like how that translates into this page largely reflecting the mindsets of a small few (and largely at this point, me). Let's democratize this page, shall we? If something in the article is mis-typed, grammatically goofy, or just in sore need of re-write, step in and do so!
• Vigilance on gender neutrality. Writing an entire article to be gender-neutral is a challenge, even moreso than I was expecting. We all need to keep each other in line on this. If someone edits in a he/him/his/she/her/hers (etc), fix it! Whether fortunately or unfortunately, this character does not have a canon sex and it isn't up to us to choose one.

-- DigiFluid 20:40, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Name Change

Should we rename it too Emperor's Wrath since its the canon name (I don't have the game)?--JacktheBlack 15:46, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

My personal inclination would be no. Emperor's Wrath is a title, not a proper name (and no, the irony of using a non-name as this article title is not lost on me ;)). Besides--the Emperor's Wrath page already exists for said rank, so moving an individual's story into an article dedicated to a title would be....wrong. At least IMO. -- DigiFluid 15:51, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

So Unidentified Emperor's Wrath (Cold War) would be a more canon name then?--JacktheBlack 18:45, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

That kind of runs into two problems though. The first being--that isn't a canon name either, so what's the point? The second is less serious IMO, but still worth mentioning: wouldn't such a move be unnecessarily spoilery for a fairly recently released product?

This is not to say that I think that idea is without merit, either. If we had a random human Imperial captain, we'd likely go by "unidentified Imperial captain" (recognizing the association/rank) because it's more specific than "unidentified human". So there's also definitely some sense to that idea.

Consider me wishy-washy on it. Maybe someone else with more experience/better understanding of naming policies could weigh in. -- DigiFluid 19:02, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with JacktheBlack, whilst Emperor's Wrath is a title not a name, we don't currently know this individuals name, and specific title is far more preferable than the vague title it has at the moment. But my suggestion would be to move this article to 'Tempest' which is the callsign the Sith Warrior's given for space combat. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 20:21, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Now that is not a bad idea at all. I hesitate a bit on using it as the individual's name (since it's his ship callsign), but it's a heck of a lot more specific than what we're using now. -- DigiFluid 20:31, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Can we get a Admin's opinion on the matter?--JacktheBlack 18:09, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think he should have a name change too. I kinda liked the Wrath idea, but that won't work well, I know. Maybe we could find someone who has finished the story line for the Warrior and see if he gats any titles we can use other then Tempest and Wrath.--Jet Twilights 05:49, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

The way this page is being written, I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only Wookieepedian playing this class (lol). I'll confirm as soon as I can, but I'm quite a ways from the end yet. -- DigiFluid 06:11, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

What about: The Second Emperor's Wrath, it would be accurate at least.--Gboy4 12:55, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Eh. That's just another conjectural name/title for the article. I think it might be slightly more accurate if we called it "Unidentified Emperor's Wrath (Cold War)", but that's not really all that far-removed from where we are now. – DigiFluid 13:34, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

But look at the Hero of Tython and the Barsen'thor - those are titles too, aren't they? And the character is the second, because Scourge was the first - plus, he's immortal and he was the Wrath until he defected. --Cade1 16:32, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree fully with Cade1. I suggest we move this article forthwith to either Emperor's Wrath (Cold War era) or Emperor's Wrath (second). To name the article by it's title is preferable to the current conjectural name it has. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 19:39, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

In this Cutscene [1] and in others, he is called Lord Wrath. Maybe it could be changed to Lord Wrath? Nostro01 (talk) 14:39, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

Homeworld

I'm playing through the Warrior right now, and over the course of several conversations the Warrior is established to have come from a noble Sith family from Dromund Kaas. I could find the clips that prove this, though it might take quite a while. But I'll leave the infobox as is, for now. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 00:54, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Er....SW was the first class I played, I don't remember any such references... — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 01:11, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Alex, isn't the Warrior supposed to be a slave? I've heard that somewhere. Cade Calrayn 01:21, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

No, the Inquisitor's the (former) slave. One example of a reference is on Korriban, some Sith Lord can task you with scanning the Overseer's purity, in conversation you can mention your noble Sith linage and background, when he implies your blood is not pure. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 01:42, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

On a side note, the image I added for the infobox is of a story based reward that every Sith Warrior receives, I've tightly cropped it so's that the body type isn't visable. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 20:36, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

• Hmmm... Alex, I'm not sure we can do that. What if the Wrath is a Twi'lek? Their lekku would show. (I'm pretty sure Twi'leks can be Warriors now, what with Legacy - every class can be any race.) Cade Calrayn 20:39, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

The Warrior can't be a Twi'lek, the only possible way is directly connected to game mechanics - ie the Legacy system, which is not canon. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 20:54, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm... I don't know. I think the project needs to discuss that—I wouldn't mind if that was true, but we can't eliminate any of the possibilities. Cade Calrayn 20:59, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

The legacy system has no story based connection, and what it provides is only connected to the game mechanics - it allows species and abilities for example to be shared out across multiple classes. Putting that to one side, as I've mentioned above the Warrior is a Sith with a pure bloodline, the story doesn't allow for the Legacy species. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 21:25, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Canon Image?

Is the page's image canon? I don't think so. But I could be wrong. I've been playing TOR, so i've edited a lot of articles (and created two) about TOR characters and events. But a mask that one does not necessarily wear is not canon, right? (I'm pretty immersed in star wars lore, have a half a dozen shelves' worth of mags, comics, novels, games etc., but if the devs have made it canon that the Wrath wears this mask or something, let me know. I don't know yet and i don't think its canon but i'm not sure. I cant find anything like this on the forums though. --Mattto123 09:38, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

• Matt, many of us (in fact most of us) have a lot of SW books. But regardless, that mask is one that all Sith Warrior players receive, regardless of their species/gender/alignment/game choices. Cade Calrayn |
• Yes, but still, it's not canon that you "Have" to wear that mask. Also, by that logic, every Consular should have a Consular robe thing, but it's not a necessity to wear it, nor for Kallig, Jedi Knight, etc. Also, if that's the case, you should change/crop the pic a bit cuz we see the armor a bit, which is definitely not canon. (Mattto123 12:00, May 14, 2012 (UTC))
  • That's actually kind of a good point. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 12:41, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
• Also, by that logic, every consular sage thing gets that random headgear that almost nobody likes. Except you don't have to wear it. In the trailer and dev vs clips nobody is forced to wear anything. (Mattto123 22:06, May 14, 2012 (UTC))
  • Furthermore, if your logic is:If everyone gets that regardless of x,y,z, then it is canon, that does not make sense if you do the consular class quests (every class quest) and your companion (qyzen fess in this case) *always* gets three new, moddable, outfits, and you always get them regardless of x,y,z. By your logic, Michael, all three are canon. But they're not. You can only choose one. I'm not against the image (it looks cool), just clarifying. (Mattto123 22:18, May 14, 2012 (UTC))
    • Just to add: I'm not sure the image is truly representative either, since it doesn't seem to apply to Body Type 3 and 4 in the game, male and female. ~Savage 22:19, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
    • I second that, Savage Bob. (Mattto123 22:22, May 14, 2012 (UTC))
• So is the page's image canon or not? I'll remove it if it isn't.(Mattto123 09:42, May 16, 2012 (UTC))
  • I disagree with the above points. I never got that helmet when while playing the Warrior.--Jet Twilights (talk) 17:51, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
    • Same here, having played through the Sith Warrior class story i've never seen that mask until now, i say leave the photo slot blank because there is no cannon name, gender or photo of this character.--CC-6616 (talk) 09:54, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
• I'll be removing the image mainly for the abovementioned reasons. Consult me with any further discrepancies.—Tommy 9281 Friday, October 12, 2012, 11:31 UTC

Name

• So should this name be Emperor's Wrath (Cold War)? I feel that Second Emperor's Wrath or Emperor's Wrath (second) might be a tad bit better, given how the warrior is already in the Second Great Galactic War when he/she receives it, also the wrath certainly was a more prominent member in the SGGW than the CW. (Mattto123 06:44, May 15, 2012 (UTC))

Romances

You guys think we should add the player romances on these pages?--Mike Gilbert 01:42, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

• They aren't key to the game's plot, so no. They'd fall under game mechanics, which are not included in the definition of canonical material. Romance options, however, can be listed in the BTS section provided it mentioned that they're player-choice. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 01:51, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Thats what I meant BTS.--Mike Gilbert 21:42, June 13, 2012 (UTC)
    • With the exception of requiring 'approval' to pursue, romances are not game mechanics. As each romance arc is fully contained story, that in some cases is referenced to in the main story arc, each Romance can be written in a similar way to those on the Revan article, in addition future updates will make female only romances available for male characters, and vice versa. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 23:23, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Dark lord?

He technically did beat Darth Baras in fair single combat (in front of the dark council) much like how Darth Nox (formerly Kallig) beat Darth Thanaton.

• ... and? Cade Calrayn 23:33, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
• technically he should have been made a dark council member for the sphere of military offense, assuming you can be the emperor's wrath and a council member at the same time.
  • The Sith received the title of Emperor's Wrath which is independent from the Council but has as much authority as the latter. Scourge was an Emperor's Wrath and though he held as much power (in both aspects) as the Council members, he was never given the title of Dark Lord. Winterz (talk) 21:16, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
  • The circumstances of Darth Baras' and Darth Thanaton's deaths were very different, the former was indirectly executed by a servant of the Emperor; the latter killed in a power struggle by a rival Sith Lord. It's incorrect (based on the facts) to assume that the Emperor's Wrath held as much power as a member of the Dark Council, Darth Marr stated that the Wrath had 'free reign' do do as s/he wished, so long as s/he didn't go against the will of the Dark Council. While the members of the Dark Council wield their own power, the Wrath wields the Emperor's. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 21:59, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
    • And isn't the Emperor's power superior to the council's? Winterz (talk) 00:42, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

Darth?

This is what codex entry for the Darth title under Sith Warrior says: "The Dark Council officially recognized your authority as a Darth after you defeated Darth Baras." 75.80.67.207 23:21, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, but we don't know what the title was. Cade Calrayn 23:25, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Empire's Wrath

If you haven't played through Shadow of Revan, minor spoilers ahead. So after the whole kerfuffle in the lastest expansion, Sith Warrior characters are pretty much renamed "Empire's Wrath" since the Emperor is now your enemy. Should the page be renamed, or should it just be mentioned in "Continued Travels"? {{SUBST:Template: Signature/Draevan13}} 17:11, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

== Update this article?

==

Out of Date

Could someone update the article? -Biography lacks everything post-main story ending (that means there's no reference to Makeb, the Dread War, and the Shadow of Revan). -Personality and Traits section can be expanded. Recommend a sub-category regarding the Wrath's relationship with their comps. - Powers and Abilities can be expanded as well to include some of the Wrath's powers, not just possible lightsaber stances. Furthermore, the Wrath was supposed to be proficient in unarmed combat as well, not to mention the Wrath's leadership qualities. 213.249.12.137 05:19, February 3, 2015 (UTC)

Empire's Wrath

Don't want to do it without permission, but the title "Emperor's Wrath" is somewhat dated, as, along with the lack of information regarding the Wrath's involvement in Shadow of Revan content, we remember that Darth Marr reinstated him/her to the previous position, referring to him/her as the "Empire's Wrath". I'd be willing to update the information, as well as rename the article, although, since this is an important character in the greater scheme of things, I would not want to do it without the proper clearance.

137.155.238.7 16:37, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. 85.64.147.6 06:34, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

The Wrath's canonical appearance

Under "Persons of Note" in the codex when playing as a sith warrior, you'll find an entry named "The Sith Warrior". The image shows a bald male Sith Pureblood with red-orangeish skin and orange eyes. It stays the same no matter what your own character looks like, so can this be taken to mean that canonically, the Empire's Wrath is a male Sith? --Potsk (talk) 10:30, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

• That's a tough one, as developers intent is to not canonize anything about players classes (don't have any document at hand to support this, but with a bit of research, I'm sure it will come up), so that players don't feels forced in some customization choices. For example, in SWTOR encyclopedia, player classes screenshots nearly always hide their features behind armor, and body size change from screenshot to screenshot. Counter-argument: marketing material tend to represent class in the exact same fashion, especially the "Jedi Knight", who always look the same across every ingame trailer. In conclusion I don't have a definitive answer to this line of questioning. However, if a consensus was to be discussed, I would vote to respect the intent behind a MMO by not defining as canon any customization option for player classes. NanoLuuke^{Cloning facility} 13:20, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
• This has been discussed before due to the Jedi Knight's portrayal in the trailers but it's been said that portrayals are not to be taken as canon, and so we shouldn't. There is no face to these characters and let's just accept it; it's not necessary. Winterz (talk) 14:07, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • This is a codex entry though, specifically for lore, not a trailer. --Potsk (talk) 15:40, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
    • It portrays a Sith Warrior, not your Sith Warrior. The game developers have said that the character is what the players wants it to be. We only assume gameplay choices for literary purposes. Because characterization, faction, game choices are all out there and nothing is the official or canon version of it. Winterz (talk) 18:27, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

"Heir to a great Sith bloodline"

During the side-quest "Allegiance" on Korriban, when Inquisitor Arzanon questions if the player is truly loyal to the Sith, the Sith Warrior can optionally respond with "I am heir to a great Sith bloodline. How dare you even ask such a question of me?" From experience with the mission and after looking through several playthroughs on YouTube, I can confirm that this option is given to the Warrior regardless of gender or species. So my question is would this be enough to consider the Empire's Wrath being "heir to a great Sith bloodline" canon? I personally think it does, but I don't wanna make any new articles or edits if nobody else agrees it's canon. LatinoGamer123 (talk) 12:43, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

• Non-conflicting background info given in optional dialogue is generally still taken as fact, so you should be good. Also, since "Sith" can refer to either the species or the culture, the species of the character shouldn't even be relevant here. :) Imperators II^(Talk) 12:55, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
  • I agree on that last point! That's why I had to go through so many scenarios to make sure that even Zabrak males and Mirialan females etc all had the exact same dialogue option as a Sith Pureblood or Human, haha. Thank you! I will make the edits. LatinoGamer123 (talk) 13:05, 19 January 2024 (UTC)