Talk: Abeloth

Speculation

how much of this page is speculation? MetVet

• I'd say very little at the moment—it's a difficult subject to write about so there has to be some guesswork. Maybe this sentence "It was also suggested that the Celestials built the Maw and Centerpoint Station to contain Abeloth and her power, but once Centerpoint was destroyed, Abeloth was freed" but I'm not sure I read Abyss that thoroughly. It'll probably be sourced soon by a resident expert; if not, you could try yourself. -- —Harrar ^{(Cut the comm chatter)} 21:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I think Ben only mentions the idea that Sinkhole was built to contain Abeloth and Centerpoint being destroyed let her out to Luke, it wasn't verified or anything, but I don't have a problem with it being up here, it's a good theory and the best we got. I would love if there was a picture of her. I just checked the Atlas, hoping they would have put something in there, but to no avail :-( Lukeiamyourfather 16:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it pure speculation at this point that the lady in the mist is the same lady as Abeloth? Not once in the novel do they draw a direct connection and the lady in the mist is only vaguely seen by Luke. Unless I missed some key element while reading the novel. --Danik Kreldin 17:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

In reading the book a second time, I think that any speculations concerning Abeloth should not be listed here. Ben specifically says that Abeloth COULD be a Celestial, but it's only speculation.

On another note, I was reading the Atlas and saw the mention of the Rakata getting "Force Sick" and forgetting how to use their technology. Do you think that could be a reference to maybe Abeloth and the Force Psychosis that we're seeing now? Just a thought...

forgot to sign, sorry Lukeiamyourfather 17:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Clarifications

Danik Kreldin, here's your direct connection:

• Abyss, p. 168, Luke's perspective - "It appeared to be female, with a large, full-lipped mouth so broad it reached from ear to ear. Her stubby arms protruded no more than ten centimeters from her shoulders, and in place of fingers, her hands had writhing tentacles so long that they hung down past the rim of the basin…"
• Abyss, p. 268, Vestara's perspective - "Her eyes were tiny and deep-sunken, like two stars shining out of a pair of black wells, and she had a large, full-lipped mouth so broad that it reached from ear to ear. Her stubby arms protruded no more than ten centimeters from her shoulders, but in place of fingers, her hands had writhing tentacles so long that they hung down past her knees…"

If you want to go further, it's highly unlikely that they would create two identical villains. Secondly, the synopses refers to one dark side nexus. Thirdly, there are more direct connections. Abeloth learns of the Skywalkers and dispatches the Sith to deal with them. The planet is also located in the Maw. There are better uses for our time.

Lukeiamyourfather, that's Ben's speculation, not ours, and so it's In-Universe. Just because Ben thinks it doesn't mean it's true; it can be used on the article. If it was only inferred from the text, then it wouldn't. On your "other note", that doesn't pertain to this article and shouldn't be discussed here — these pages are for discussing the article, not the subject -- —Harrar ^{(Cut the comm chatter)} 17:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Under powers and abilities, should we mention that Ship refers to Abeloth as 'allmighty'? Or are character opinions not worth mentioning, even with the caveat that it IS an opinion? Dewback rancher 01:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Isn't that more Abeloth speaking through ship to terrorize? If it was actually Almighty,whoever built the prison it's in couldn't have trapped it.On the Behind the scenes front:The name seems like a reference to Aboleths,a race of monsters from dungeons and dragons that live in deep waters(ie. an Abyss),who predate recorded history.66.32.97.247 04:25, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Tempest

it's a thought but the shape the cloud's on hapes seem to form in jacen's vision in tempest where it also mentions that the voice was not jacen's saying "mine" sounds a lot like the description of abeloth in abyss should we mention this as both acounts were written by troy denning and i seem to recall something about a nightmare or vision leia had in tatooine ghost similar to this as well again by troy denning can anyone verify that last part and should we mention that if true as well? or at least add a possible appearence or appars in vision to the appearences list if true?--Mando'ade1138 20:47, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

I just read Tempest again for the second time and read this part on pp 144-145 and they say the eyes are "blazing white suns" which screams Abeloth to me. I see no other explanation. Jacen immediately has a conversation with Lumiya regarding his concerns with a Sith Dynasty, but it is clear this has nothing to do with the smiling face as it appears he is merely changing the conversation. Can anybody conform or deny this? If it is not Abeloth - what is the face he sees arriving on Hapes? - Jason W. Bantle jasonwbantle@gmail.com

Backlash

In the Internal Flap of Backlash it talks about Abeloth. Would that count as a appearance? KingDonfin ^{I am not Dumb I'll have you know I have an IQ of 19!!!!!}

• No, because it's not in the actual story itself. Jonjedigrandmaster ^{(We seed the stars)} 17:53, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Death

• Did Abeloth actually die? or are we meant to believe she did? I know it's wavering on the line of speculation but it seems unlikely that someone- something- that was powerful enough to project visions across the galaxy, destroy entire space stations, cause a psychosis in certain Jedi from across the galaxy as well as completely dominating the Sith Meditation Sphere, could be so easily defeated by Luke. When she died it was one-on-one, so surely even Luke would have been unable to defeat it? Seems odd that the main villain of the series is dead before the series has come close to finishing. Darth Tyranitar 12:26, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • Firstly, as to the question of Luke being able to defeat her one-on-one: if you'll recall from the scene, she attempted to trick him, producing an image of Callista that was not her, and producing an image of Dyon over herself. Abeloth thought Luke would attack the image of Callista, as she thought that he would assume that was the form she had taken, since he had seen her take it before. However, she failed to trick him, and he stabbed the image of Dyon, who was actually Abeloth. Now, as to whether or not she's actually dead, I'll quote from page 320 (Luke's perspective): "She died halfway through it. He felt it. Felt her wink out of existence…" Sounds pretty dead to me. Now, whether or not she stays dead is another matter, but for now, it would be speculation to wonder if she still lives, because the source stated quite clearly that she didn't. So until/unless another source brings her back, she's dead. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 20:22, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

• Hmm, makes sense. Seems odd that someone so powerful was defeated so...poorly. The scene was only a tense scene because of the Callista revelation and as you quoted, the main baddie 'winked' out of existence. Jacen could hide his presence in the Force and Jacen's powers were being used by Abeloth's victims, so she could have hidden her presence on a grander scale using the technique. Still, it's speculation (and not allowed :/), just seems strange that they would kill of something that was on par with the Emperor in terms of power so prematurely. Darth Tyranitar 20:44, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I definitely wasn't expecting her to die so soon, but that tells me one of three things: either the Lost Tribe is going to turn into the main antagonists here, and we're gonna see some epic battles between them and the Jedi (I don't find this very likely, it's already so overdone in Star Wars), or Abeloth isn't as dead as we think she is, or else Abeloth was part of something far bigger, which we'll learn more about in Vortex. Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 20:48, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

• Wait, now she isn't dead? Darth Tyranitar 17:28, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • With the synopsis of Conviction, we can say no.Maxattac 17:37, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
• Ha! just read it! I love it when my theories are right. This is good news. Darth Tyranitar 17:38, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Speculation on Her Species

To my knowledge, there is only 2, maybe 3 species that could be her species. The 3 species that I think could be them are the Celestials, Force Demons, and Destructors from the Keshiri legends. Unless the Destructors were either Celestials or Force Demons.

The reason I think the Force Demons were, as the article described them as being evil. Well, that fits Abeloth perfectly. I could be that the Celestials either captured or killed off the Force Demons, that's why Aboleth was in the Maw. That would go with the same for the Destructors. With the Celestials, Aboleth could have been a rogue Celestial that the rest wanted to inprision for her crimes.

Like I said, these are speculations, there could be another unknown species we haven't heard of. What do you people think? -Master CJ 05:33, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

• Talk pages are not for speculation. But since I'm not an admi I can't resist throwing some more speculation: she could be the result of Sith alchemy? She sounds like some kind of mutant Human from the books description. Darth Tyranitar 14:06, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
  • You are correct: talk pages—and this wiki as a whole—are not for any speculation. And since you seem to know this, please refrain from doing so. Anyway, the fact is that, until a valid source tells us what species Abeloth is, we can't put anything in the article, so such speculation here is pointless. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 18:36, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Fallanassi

In Vortex, Akanah said that Abeloth was originaly a member of the Order of the White Current. I know it is only a statement of the in-universe person but i really do not see why would Akanah lie about it. So shouldn´t this thing be mentioned? ScorpiO 20:27, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

• No, Akanah was under Abeloth's control. What she said could have been a lie. We don't know for sure. —Unsigned comment by 72.241.107.143 (talk • contribs)
  • Sounds like speculation to me. A character directly says that she was (x) and then you disagree based on it possibly being a lie. Could is the keyword in your message, because unless it's a confirmed lie, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be accepted as canon. Anything else would be speculation. Also, remember to sign your posts, even if you're not registered. Holocron ^(Complain) 12:59, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

Abeloth's Power

Quick question: How do we know Abeloth is a dozen times more powerful than Luke? It just sounds a bit like speculation to me. I don't remember anything like this from the books. Thanks!--173.173.11.78 01:52, May 18, 2011 (UTC)MandoJedi, May 17, 2011

• In Fate of the Jedi: Vortex, during the Battle in the Fallanassi village, narration explicitely states that Abeloth is a dozen times more powerful in the Force than Luke.—Tommy 9281 Thursday, May 26, 2011, 16:26 UTC

Update

Can someone please update Abeloth's page to reflect what occurred in Conviction. —Unsigned comment by Senjuto (talk • contribs)

• Thx for waiting so long, everyone. Now you need to update to Conviction AND Ascension. —Unsigned comment by Jet Twilights (talk • contribs)
  • … It has been updated, and for quite a while now—and the update is all the way through the excerpts that we have for Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse. Also, please remember to sign all of your posts with four tildes. (~~~~) Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 02:38, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

New sub-category?

Given the seemingly vast amount of people absorbed by Abeloth, would it be an idea worth considering to make a sub-category based on it (given that it's still unknown whether this absorption constitutes death or not), or am I just looking too much into it? User: Barren167 ^{Darth Caedus: Childhood fan-character ruined.} 01:37, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

• I don't think that's necessary. Any information regarding who she consumed and when she consumed them is just plain bio information, and anything more about the power itself just belongs in the Powers and abilities section. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 16:14, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Picture

Is there a better main picture we can use for this? The current one looks completely [Redacted by administration], doesn't match the physical description of Abeloth in the books, and looks fan-made. —Unsigned comment by 173.16.252.42 (talk • contribs)

• The image comes from Star Wars Galaxy Series 6, a set of trading cards officially licensed by Lucas, so it's a legitimate and official image. Remember to sign your comments with the four tildes (~), like so --Cade Calrayn 18:48, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
• Also, it is literally the only picture there is.--The Great and Grand Count Mall!^{(Bow down before me!)} 22:30, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, yeah. That's true, too. —Cade Calrayn 23:02, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
    • I agree with the first guy. I KNOW its the only picture we have, but that is an will never be what I imagine Abeloth to be. No coarse yellow hair, not very tall...the tentacles are not coming from her arms so much as her entire body. To me, Abeloth looks like an extremely skinny woman with a huge grin and long hair hat flows to her feet. I mean, even fan made, this is a way better picture than the one we have now: http://todd-the-fox.deviantart.com/art/Abeloth-Sketch-Card-200553976

I KNOW we can't use it, but really!--Jet Twilights 03:36, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

I feel like having no picture would be better than keeping the current one.McJediProbie 15:54, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

• Can we have a vote to remove the current pic and just have none? I would prefer that than having to deal with..THAT picture...--Jet Twilights 19:01, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong with the one from The Essential Guide to Warfare? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Abeloth_EGTW.jpg --Lordchafington 04:31, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

• That one actually looks a thousand times better than the current one of the evil space amoebaMcJediProbie 13:57, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
• I'm perfectly okay with cropping that one down and making it the main image. I'd have done it myself already, but I'm not sure what WP policy is on editing already-uploaded pictures for re-upload even when I have the book myself. — DigiFluid 14:03, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
  • Isn't the one form the essential Guide Abeloth in the form of Callista? So...its technically not her either. I DO agree that would be better than the current one too...--Jet Twilights 20:48, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
    • We can't disregard a canon image because some people don't like it. The current image is the only image of her not in disguise, whether it exactly matches a description or not is irrelevant, as the image is canon. Also, it is common for people to imagine a character to look different when reading their description than the authors intended them to look. So we will use it until there is a better image of Abeloth not in disguise. Cheers, grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 08:09, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
• No not "Cheers". That is NOT what the author had in mind for her, that artist was a fool, and we can't just play this off like a friendly, "Oh well". We can keep the image, but I won't sit here and let the idea that THAT THING is Abeloth go on. Its a bad picture, you know it, I know it, we ALL know it. But, it will stay. It is the only picture we have, but I am still not satisfied. So, I will just go brood until we find a better one. lol--174.62.183.126 16:23, May 5, 2012 (UTC)
  • The funniest thing about this argument is how in line with the description given by Wynn Dorvan the image is. From Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse: "a face of pure radiance, the size of a bantha and as wispy as a cloud, floating out in the darkness of the computer core." Isn't that what we've got depicted? I think so. Now one other administrator besides myself has said quite straightforward that the image is canon and won't be changed. Any further attempts to get around that will be considered disruption and the appropriate actions will be taken. Cheers,—Tommy 9281 Monday, May 7, 2012, 21:44 UTC

OMG, just freakin get rid of this picture —Unsigned comment by 84.19.36.178 (talk • contribs)

"Get over it, we will take action against anyone who attempts to continue the discussion"... way to be so completely unnecessarily self-righteous about preserving fantasy fiction as if it were historical fact. Great form, per usual, Wookieepedia. Darth Adonis 15:54, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the feedback. 1358 ^(Talk) 16:04, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
• That's pretty much our entire purpose. I'm not sure how you could have managed not to have figured that out by now, but if you don't like it, you're always welcome to leave. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 16:06, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Dark Side or something else?

Wait a minute, if Son got dark side power from the font of power, and Daughter got light side power from the pool of knowledge, then wouldn't Abeloth have something else since she drank from both? I mean, the son and daughter are opposites, light and dark, and the father is balance, so what's the opposite of balance? Chaos and insanity. She and those she infected are pretty insane. Also, The Ones already have a darksider, and she is labled as the bringer of chaos. Also I happen to notice that none of the darksiders team up with her. In fact they actually team up with lightsiders to stop her. Even Son(paragon of the dark side) and Daughter(paragon of the light side) team up. The Jedi Grand Master and the Dark Lord of the Sith even teamed up to stop her. If any of you agree or disagree, I would like to know why. --Emperordmb 14:02, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

• Per the note at the top of this talk page: This space is used for discussion relating to changes to the article, not for a discussion about the topic in question. DD97^{Which bear is best?} 14:26, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
  • I KNOW we arn't supposed to carry this one on, but I just want to clarify that she is the anti-balance because she brings the Light and Dark side together. Notice very time she is beaten, it is when a lightsider and darksider are fighting as one. THAT is what makes her the balance.--174.62.183.126 16:27, May 5, 2012 (UTC)
    • Acknowledging you're breaking the rules doesn't give you a pass on doing so. DD97^{Which bear is best?} 21:21, May 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • It is about changing the article if the information it has is incorrect. All I'm trying to do is get the correct information and have it put in the article. Where in a star wars book does it say that she is a darksider? And anything the Jedi say shouldn't count because they are biased to think that all evil comes from the dark side. --Emperordmb 23:24, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
    • Luke frequently says throughout the series that Abeloth's power is of the dark side. One that I can remember is when she infused her "dark side energy" in Fala in Fate of the Jedi: Conviction. Also, Abeloth was a mortal when she drank from the Font and bathed in the Pool—all that did was give her Force powers and twist her mind and form, transforming her into a Force entity. The Font and Pool magnified the powers of the Son and Daughter, and exponentially increased their personality traits—just like the Font and Pool magnified Abeloth's desperation and fear of abandonment. Abeloth is not light side or neutral. She is a dark sider, plain and simple. Cade Calrayn 04:32, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
      • Like I said, Luke is a Jedi. He thinks all enemies are of the dark side. What he says doesn't count. --Emperordmb 12:16, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
        • I'm pretty sure one of the Sith, Vol, actually expressed horror and revulsion at Abeloth when he actually began to see her for what she was, and despite his initial plans to either ally with her or else simply use her, he afterwards vowed to not have anything to do with her and also attempted to kill her, so I'm pretty sure she's Dark Side enough for even the Sith, a high-ranking one, not to mention, to be repulsed by her. Weedle McHairybug 12:28, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
          • Just because Luke is a Jedi, doesn't mean that "what he says doesn't count". Jedi are clearly able to tell the difference between the light side and the dark side, and their affiliation with the light side doesn't prevent them from seeing whether something is dark side. And if you had read my actual post, you would have understood that Abeloth became a dark side entity because of her feelings and desires when she entered the Pool and drank from the Font—the Font magnified the darkness in the Son's personality, and the Pool magnified the light in the Daughter's, transforming them into the representations of the light and dark side. Abeloth's greed and desperation were twisted by the Font and the Pool, playing off of her fear—an emotion lon associated with the dark side&dmash;and transforming her into a creature of dark side Force energy. The Font and the Pool were both incredibly powerful Force wellsprings, they were just tainted by the Son's and Abeoth's darkness. Cade Calrayn 15:31, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
            • I am not saying she is light side or neutral. I am saying she is chaos, insanity, imbalance, whatever the opposite of balance is, because the father is not a lightsider, but seems to have a good personality, so Abeloth can be really screwed up, and not be a darksider. Imbalance can be just as bad as the dark side. --Emperordmb 12:04, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
• According to Lucas, imbalance IS the Dark Side, and vice versa. DD97^{Which bear is best?} 14:55, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
  • the father said too much dark OR LIGHT could tear the very fabric of the universe. --Emperordmb 21:10, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
• In reference to the argument at the beginning here, did it not occur to any of you that if something is figured out about the character, it should be put in the article?74.215.113.92 16:34, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

1.1 Cleanup

Explanation of multiple weird edits. I messed up and accidentally wiped out a reference tag while doing some grammar cleanup, so had to undo a couple things and revert the section back to its original content, so that I could then redo things the right way. Sorry.ShannarythVenhallyn 17:24, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

Aboleth of Dungeons & Dragons Influence

Clearly there are similarities between the descriptions of the aquatic monster called the "Aboleth" of Dungeons & Dragons fame and the Star Wars Abeloth being in this article. The names are a simple swapping of the vowels "e" and "o". It should also be noted, the name of this entity was first mentioned in "Fate of the Jedi: Abyss" penned by none other than Troy Denning a former TSR employee and TSR is the publisher of "Dwellers of the Forbidden City" (c. 1981) the first product to introduce the monster known as the Aboleth. I can't imagine this being a coincidence. I think this should be mentioned in the Behind the Scenes Section. -- Frank V Bonura 13:50, January 18, 2017 (UTC)

Canon?

I think that was Abeloth we saw at the Maw in Solo. Is it confirmed? --ValarrMonterys (talk) 10:18, May 30, 2018 (UTC)

• No, that is a summa-verminoth.--Vitus Infinitus^Talk 14:56, May 30, 2018 (UTC)

Infobox

Should we include a specific type of Infobox for Abeloth? While calling her a Dark Jedi would be a massive understatement at best, I’m wondering if that would be the best option. Alternatively, given the other non-affiliated Force-users, should there be an Infobox for them?IJosh64 (talk) 02:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)