Forum:TC:Training on Dagobah

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Delete. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 16:17, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Training on Dagobah (talk - history - links - logs)

I really don't think this is notable. Calling it an "event" is a stretch. Thousands of characters have received Jedi training, and this would open the door to creating articles for each instance, eg Vima Sunrider's "Training on Rhen Var," Jacen and Jaina's "Training on Yavin IV," and hundreds and hundreds more. This isn't a precedent we should set. All of the information in this article would be at home in Luke's and/or Yoda's articles. Menkooroo (talk) 16:49, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Voting

Delete

  1. Menkooroo (talk) 16:49, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  2. This can easily be covered on Luke Skywalker and Yoda. -- SFH (talk) 17:25, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  3. Agreed. Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 17:38, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  4. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:46, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  5. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 18:57, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  6. Totally unnecessary. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:58, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  7. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 20:01, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  8. Per Menkooroo. —MJ— Jedi Council Chambers Tuesday, July 31, 2012, 21:42 UTC
  9. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 21:46, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  10. —Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 21:46, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  11. ...really? -- Darth Culator (Talk) 21:50, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  12. Yes, it is an important event in the life of Luke Skywalker but having it be counted amongst other events, such as battles, missions and wars, is not really needed. Matt Seay (talk) 21:54, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  13. Parts of the training belong in the articles of the involved characters, not in a separate article. It's not special.CC7567 (talk) 02:31, August 4, 2012 (UTC)
  14. When do we receive the Birth of Kyle Katarn article? JangFett (Talk) 02:34, August 4, 2012 (UTC)
  15. I'm in inclined to agree, as long as it's merged properly. Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 01:10, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
  16. DarthRevan1173 (talk) 01:20, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
  17. Meh. 1358 (Talk) 09:01, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
  18. Coruscantfan (Talk) 15:50, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
  19. It should go in the Luke Skywalker and Yoda articles. The disastrous state of both of those articles is not pertinent to this discussion. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 16:14, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
  20. Delete. This stuff belongs in the Luke and Yoda articles; putting it on its own like this is, frankly, kind of dumb. — DigiFluid(Whine here) 13:17, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
  21. Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:23, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
  22. Away with this demon Winterz (talk) 15:59, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Keep

  1. It's not like the other trials Jedis had to go under. This was a large part of The Empire Strikes Back. And besides which, it also appeared in other additions to the lexicon. For example, the Legend of the Dragonsnakes comic and Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike. You'd have a point if the article in question was Anakin's test at the Jedi Temple that was shown in The Phantom Menace, but since it was covered in multiple sources, this should be kept. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 16:53, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  2. I agree, and to be honest, I was thrilled when I saw this article was created. It has so much potential for editing. Stuff that Luke learned in the novelization, learning about the present moment and Short-term memory enhancement, the Battle of Ruusan the tale of Mortis and other stuff from Yoda Stories.Supershadow3 (talk) 17:38, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  3. The primary reason I'm actually voting to keep is that Luke's training was special to the degree that it was very concentrated into a short span of time, and because it was this training that spawned an entire New Jedi Order. It needs to be cleaned up, and I think it should be moved to Luke Skywalker's Dagobah Jedi training, or something similar, to be more specific. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 04:04, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
  4. Seems unique enough to keep.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 16:15, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
  5. Cumulonimbus Cloud (ℳeeting ℛoom) 15:43, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
  6. Let's keep this one. It's an important part to the movies. 501st dogma(talk) 15:57, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
  7. Keep. Everything that follows depends on this event. Rename to Luke's Training on Dagobah. Jartka'irn (talk) 13:13, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

I'm really unsure which way I should vote. On the one hand, I somewhat share Menkooroo's fear of multiple "Training on Planet X" articles. On the other hand, I'm a pĥilosopher and history geek by nature, and I cannot say outright: "This is not an event". Fundamentally, it raises one question: "What's a historic event?'" An event is a thing that happens or takes place (1) at a specific point in spacetime, (2) especially one of importance. (3) A historic event is distinct from everyday life, commonplace actions. (4) It is a fact, but one that is different from other facts of the same nature. (5)

Is the training of Luke a historic event, following this definition? Does it take place? Yes. Does it happens at a given point in spacetime? Yes (Dagobah, 3 ABY). Different from everyday life? Yes (Jedi trainers were supposed to have been wiped out by that time). Is it different from other facts of the same nature? Yes (becazuse it's Dagobah, not Ossus, it's Yoda, not Thon etc.) MY POINT: I don't know how to vote, so I'll probably abstain. But it seems clear that we are unsure of what an event truly is. --LelalMekha (talk) 17:44, July 31, 2012 (UTC)