Forum:TC:Marshal of the New Republic

Forums > Trash compactor archive > TC:Marshal of the New Republic

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was redirect to marshal. Tommy-Macaroni 12:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Marshal of the New Republic (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect)

There is no discernable difference between this position and a normal marshal, besides the fact that this one serves the New Republic, which isn't particularly notable. RattsT (talk) 01:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

  • In accordance with the discussion below, option 1 has been changed from "Delete" to "Redirect to marshal." RattsT (talk) 16:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Redirect to marshal

  1. RattsT (talk) 01:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  2. Lewisr (talk) 01:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  3. JediMasterMacaroniAdmiral Ackbar RH(Conversation) 01:17, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  4. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  5. Tomotron Revanchist Sith (Star Forge) 03:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  6. Zed42 (talk) 03:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  7. CIS roundel Erebus Chronus (talk) 03:25, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  8. This is no different to Imperial Captain or Admiral of the Galactic Republic. I don't think its necessary to have both of them--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 04:42, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  9. VergenceScatter (talk) 04:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  10. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 06:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  11. Tommy-Macaroni 09:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  12. For reasons above. Liverpool92 (talk) 11:08, 7 December 2020
  13. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 18:13, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  14. Any information on the peculiarities of this rank could simply be covered on the marshal article. An admiral's work in the Rebellion could be drastically different from that of an admiral of the Empire, or an admiral of some independent smugglers' fleet, but there still shouldn't be separate articles for the rank. And whatever the intention of the creators regarding the rank, this TC should not be affected by our interpretations of it. - - -OOM 224 ༼༽{talk}༼༽ 18:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  15. Per DarthRuiz and OOM 224. I do not believe there is a distinguishable difference between "Marshal of the New Republic" and simply holding the rank of marshal while serving in the New Republic. Wok142 (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  16. For now this is the best option. Supreme Emperor (talk) 00:04, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  17. I have removed my vote to keep. I had a strong opinion of the topic at hand, but I never intended to incite discord, especially if I can't be 100% (or even 90%) sure about it. For now, I think it's reasonable to have it as a redirect and see how it ages, and what developments we get. I'm not abandoning the issue, but there's no need to make such a light and recent topic any more controversial than this is becoming. We are a community open to debate and reason and I appeal to others that we stay that way and proceed with the less conflicting path. As a redirect, it's not gone; it's simply pending more information and stronger arguments. Winterz (talk) 00:06, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  18. Per Winterz. And I'll trust that if this is redirected to marshal, then Clone Commander and Clone Captain and Clone Lieutenant will all be merged and redirected into their respective Commander, Captain and Lieutenant pages. There is no difference other than they are clones. It's just a rank. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 00:30, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
    • Purely for the record so that nobody gets any ideas: no, they won't be. Imperators II(Talk) 13:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  19. Imperators II(Talk) 13:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  20. Braha'tok enthusiast (Hello there) 17:00, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  21. Corellian PremierJedi symbolThe Force will be with you always 17:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  22. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 19:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  23. Infectedzombieguy (talk) 20:55, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  24. Fan26 (Talk) 16:50, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep

  • I hate to go against the majority here and I am usually a deletionist, but this doesn't seem right. Please, notice that there are spoilers ahead. In Episode 12, Carson Teva requests Cara Dune to join the New Republic and provides her with a shiny New Republic badge. In Episode 14, we find that she accepted Teva's offer and the instance referring to it is Din Djarin staring at this badge and reading "Cara Dune, Marshal of the New Republic". This seems notably different from the position of Marshal, which defines a lawman such as the independent Cobb Vanth. Honestly, the badge is really the biggest turning point and there are some rules to Cara Dune's Marshal of the New Republic status involving the Empire, as she herself states. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 03:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • Another detail to add like Editor said below: Cara was already a marshall before being named "Marshal of the New Republic" and she refers to this as her new job. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 06:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm going to agree with Winterz. The Marshal of the NR position clearly is different from her old role, she's not just a regular marshal anymore. Din would not have given that reaction if it was the same--Editoronthewiki (talk) 05:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • Due to something right now I cannot review the updated TC. My vote has to be striked, as I can't spare the time to review, maybe later I can give an updated opinion--Editoronthewiki (talk) 17:19, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
      • Have reviewed, opinion remains the same, though I am open to it being redirected.--Editoronthewiki (talk) 23:55, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm going with keep. Vanth was the self-appointed marshal of Mos Pelgo. Dune was self-appointed, or appointed as marshal by Karga, who was himself a self-appointed mayor or magistrate or whatever. Neither were official positions. Marshal of the New Republic is an official rank/position in the New Republic. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 07:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  1. I agree with the above. Mr Star Wars AminoRepublic (talk) 08:07, 7 December, 2020 (UTC)
  2. I agree with Winterz and others who stated that this is a new role compared to her previous one. JediVahGilns (talk) 14:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  3. Also per Winterz. CanePlayz (talk) 14:21, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  4. JRT2010 (talk) 16:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Comments

  • I don't really get why the first vote option isn't "Redirect" rather than "Delete" in this case. Imperators II(Talk) 10:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • I actually do agree with this instead of outright deleting the page. Since there's no information regarding whether or not "Marshal of the NR" is different from an actual marshal at this point, we should just redirect it instead because if we do get more information, we can just add everything back rather than recreating the page. CIS roundel Erebus Chronus (talk) 15:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
      • This is a fair notion, and I agree with this. In regards to the keep arguements above and below, the issue is not whether Dune is a "Marshal of the New Republic," it's whether there's any notable reason why we need a page at that specific title. It doesn't matter if she's a marshal for Karga, the NR, or anyone else: the position is the same, and any operational differences should be noted on the marshal page. This is in-line with how we treat other title articles as well; if a role is shared between groups, we only have one article for that role. To borrow a topic from Discord, what separates a "General of the Grand Army of the Republic" from any other general, besides what faction they belong to? Not much, or at least not enough to make a separate page, and the same should apply here. RattsT (talk) 16:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
        • What separates a Jedi General from a standard general aside from the fact they are Jedi? A few distinctions, such as with the Marshal of the NR. The general concept of marshal is a self or popular-elected lawman of a settlement. Everything points to Marshal of the NR being more than that. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 16:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
          • Jedi General is a unique rank that no other group has. We don't even know that Marshal of the NR is an official title, besides the often inaccurate Disney+ subtitles' capitalization and the speculation behind Din's statement. RattsT (talk) 16:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
            • "Everything points to Marshal of the NR being more than that" such as? Also, is this "general concept" from Star Wars or the real world? CIS roundel Erebus Chronus (talk) 16:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  • To reinforce: Cara Dune refers to the badge as her "stripes" which makes this an official rank. Marshals don't have stripes and aren't a rank of the New Republic. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • Where is it stated that the New Republic doesn't have marshals? VergenceScatter (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
      • That is not what I meant. Marshal is an independent title without any affilitation. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 16:46, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I could be mistaken but it seems the intention for this TC was that Din Djarin meant "Marshal of the New Republic" as in a marshal for the New Republic. By changing it to redirect, those in favor of deletion are accepting "Marshal of the New Republic" as a real thing, but not notable enough for more. The arguments from the keepers support why it should merit its own article. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 16:57, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • I support a redirect not because I think that Marshal of the New Republic is a separate title, but because I think others might. VergenceScatter (talk) 16:59, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • To quote Tope in the Discord: "As far as I can tell, right now at this moment, we have no indication "Marshal of the New Republic" is any different than saying Ackbar was an "Admiral of the New Republic" in ROTJ or Luke Skywalker was a "Commander of the Rebel Alliance" in ESB. It's interpretive at best to say this is some kind of special title unto itself, which isn't a very good basis for devoting an entire article to it. The safe route to take right now is redirect it and then turn it into a full article later when we actually get confirmation that it's something unique." —Unsigned comment by RattsT (talk • contribs)
      • If all we had was Din saying "Cara Dune, Marshal of the Republic" I would strike my vote right now and support the redirect but alas, this is not the case. Cara was a marshal and then she joined the NR, she got a new job, she got a badge, she got stripes, she got new equipment and she got new responsibilities. This much is stated in the episode. We could all be overthinking it of course, but I don't think they'd focus on this much detail, if it wasn't their intention to differentiate the titles. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 18:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  • If this is no different than regular marshal, then Clone Commander and Clone Captain and Clone Lieutenant should all be merged and redirected into their respective Commander, Captain and Lieutenant pages. There is no difference other than they are clones. It's just a rank. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 19:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
    • You're right, those probably should be redirected. VergenceScatter (talk) 19:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
      • I see your point, there is not a ton of information on those pages and what is there could probably be slotted into a section detailing what the rank means in the Grand Army of the Republic for the main articles. However, I do not know it this would be appropriate because these are explicitly confirmed ranks that are distinguishable from the normal. Wok142 (talk) 20:37, 7 December 2020 (UTC)