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Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH:External links update
Today, I'd like to introduce my attempt at setting in policy a part of articles that even confuse our dear consensus reviewers: the External links section. As veterans editors might have noticed, this –often overlooked– part of our articles don't follow strict rules, except on a few specific points. And with OOU articles flourishing, it became evident that it's resulting in some mild chaos. As I wrote this, several recent status page are conflicting on this matters, and those who don't... most likely were the result of my tempering ^^.
You'll find under a rewritten version (changes) of the current policy, including the following changes:
- A comprehensive hierarchy between links, with inclusion of several links to either categories of internet citation templates, or citation templates themselves
- A rewritte of the WP preferred formatting, with the addition of Imdb preferred formatting
- The rule on restricting content as been extended beyond Star Wars Blog, to include a notion of relevancy to any articles
- The removal of the rule mentionning the Databank and the Encyclopedia, redundant with other sections of the policy
- A rule regarding the inclusion or not of archival links with some type of links
What's missing: a more granular/detailed approach to modern StarWars.com content that are concerned by External links rather than Sources. I disregarded that because I still don't fell that I could provide a proper wording/framing on the matters at the moment, and it was not my current priority. The policy at the moment seems sufficient on that regard, but it's possible we might want to go back to it, as this is something Uber, myself and others have discussed in the past. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 16:29, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Proposal
The External links section is a bulleted list of links from websites outside of Wookieepedia. These links are commonly unlicensed and/or unofficial sources of information, such as social media profiles, commercial pages, news articles, fan websites, Wikipedia articles, databases, and more.
- The section is called "External links," even if the article only has one external link
- The list must be ordered following a specific hierarchy, with items listed in alphabetic order (primarily following the name of the websites, and secondly the name of individual pages) within each level, and formatted using available citation templates:
1 - Official pages 1.1 - Official website, formatted as [url Official website] 1.2 - Other, such as StarWars.com profile pages 2 - Social media profiles, including the use of Social media citation templates, as well as {{YouTube}} 3 - Commercial pages, including, but not limited to, the use of Commercial and product listing internet citation templates, as well as other, such as {{Disney}} and {{Marvel}} 4 - Databases 4.1 - Wikipedia 4.2 - Other, including, but not limited to: {{IMDb}}, {{MobyGames}}, other wikis 5 - Other relevant pages 5.1 - Star Wars Blogs and StarWars.com Message Boards, using respectively {{SW}}, {{Blog}} and {{SWBoards}} 5.2 - Articles, interviews, discussion topics (including, but not limited to: {{JCFcite}}, {{Reddit}}), etc.
- For Wikipedia articles and IMDb pages, if the Wookieepedia's article title and Wikipedia's article or IMDb's page title are the same, simply format it with
{{WP}}for Wikipedia, and{{Imdb|url=name/xxxxx}}for IMDb. Only specify the article title if they are not the same. For example, on John Glover, because the Wikipedia link is under a different name (John Glover (actor)), it should be formatted like this:{{WP|John Glover (actor)|John Glover}}. - Restrict "other relevant pages" listings only to the most critically relevant pages with respect to an article's coverage. Furthermore, those pages should be listed in chronological order of publication, instead of alphabetic order.
- Star Wars Blog posts from the Pop Culture; Quizzes and Polls; and Films categories are typically prime examples of those that are not appropriate for the External links. However, any Blog post (featuring the article's subject) that is cited in the course of the article must be listed in the External links.
- Other pages (from non-official websites) cited in the course of the article that cover only a fraction of the article's subject should not be included in the External links. For example, an article only covering the announcement of the participation of a creator to a new work should not be included, unlike an article that would cover a large segment of their career. Interviews are considered particularly relevant, and should be systematically listed, as long as they focus on Star Wars.
- Official websites, social media profiles, and databases are considered a convenience, and as such, do not require the inclusion of an archive link, and should be delisted if no longer available. This does not applies to official websites associated with Lucasfilm and Star Wars products, nor to websites providing insights into an individual's creative process, such as personal blogs. If an official website responding to one of those criteria goes offline, then it should be formatted as
[url Official website] {{C|content now obsolete; [archiveurl backup link]}}.
05/06/202: Updated!
Discuss
- Looking good to me. Imperators II(Talk) 08:25, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Consistency definitely is key, and better to start now before we do a ton more articles, especially OOU status articles. Nice work!—spookywillowwtalk 14:47, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
- This looks good! Rsand 30 (talk) 21:55, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
- So, I was thinking about two points that I was not totally satisfied with. First, the last point of the policy proscribe from leaving an archival link to some types of websites. However, in some case, those sites can be treasure troves of information. alexanderfreed.com is a good example of that, has it's full of blog posts. Blogspot and Wordpress also seems worthwhile to keep around, even if they happen to be shutdown. I'm thinking about modifying the last rule like so: "Official website, social media profiles, and databases are considered a convenience, and as such, do not require the inclusion of an archive link, and should be delisted if no longer available. This does not applies to websites providing insights into an individual's creative process, such as personnal blogs. If an official page responding to that criteria goes offline, then it should be formatted as
[url Official website] {{C|content now obsolete; [archiveurl backup link]}}." NanoLuukeCloning Facility 18:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC) - In the same spirit, I'd like to add a provision regarding interviews to the relevancy rule ("Restrict "other relevant pages" listings [...]"), as they also provide a window to an individual's creative process. I'm proposing to add this subrule: "Interviews are considered particularly relevant, and should be systematically listed, as long as they focus on Star Wars." NanoLuukeCloning Facility 18:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- Looks good, including your two suggestions above. Agree that it makes total sense to archive blog pages, as those pages are very useful.ThrawnChiss7
Assembly Cupola 18:18, 20 May 2023 (UTC) - This looks well thought out, nice work! And as Spooky said, it'd be great to achieve some consistency in External links. I have no objections really, just two suggestions/personal preferences:
- Since StarWars.com's new Blog-ish entries use {{SW}}, that template should perhaps also be mentioned along with {{Blog}} and {{SWBoards}} in item #5.1.
- Done. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 07:31, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- I believe listing the links in alphabetic order (except for "Other relevant pages" of course) is indeed the logical choice. But purely for aesthetic reasons, I'd prefer to list uses of the same template back to back in a particular level of the proposed hierarchy. For example, if there are two uses of {{Disney}} and one use of {{Marvel}}, grouping the Disney links together despite the alphabetic order would visually look better, in my opinion.
Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 02:55, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- I tried to tweak the proposal a little, because that's already what's intended: to order things based on the name website of origins (and thus the citation templates). I added this parenthetical adjustment: "primarily following the name of the websites, and secondly the name of individual pages". What do you think? NanoLuukeCloning Facility 07:31, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think that works. Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 02:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think that works.
- I tried to tweak the proposal a little, because that's already what's intended: to order things based on the name website of origins (and thus the citation templates). I added this parenthetical adjustment: "primarily following the name of the websites, and secondly the name of individual pages". What do you think? NanoLuukeCloning Facility 07:31, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Since StarWars.com's new Blog-ish entries use {{SW}}, that template should perhaps also be mentioned along with {{Blog}} and {{SWBoards}} in item #5.1.
- Nice work on out-of-universe stuff as always, Nano! I myself am thinking about starting a thread and bringing to light the issue of the type and volume of SW.com blog posts and social media posts under External links, as well as blogs that go under Sources vs. External links. The latter especially is a topic that's long been discussed but with nothing concrete as of yet, and it's something I wish to see resolved in the near future. UberSoldat93
(talk) 08:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- I really much look forward to this! If I may suggest, you probably would want to approach this by selecting a sample of pages added to SW.com, let say in a single month (maybe one recent and one from SWArchive stock?), create a table, identifies the criteria that would help sort the pages between Sources/Ext Links, as to provides a pratical example for editors to wrap their heads around the issues during the SH. It won't solve everything, but it sure would help ground the discussion, as debating abstract about an issue with such granularity would only goes so far. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 07:31, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- One more little addition: I modified the last point to account for literal official webpages: "official websites associated with Lucasfilm and Star Wars products" (like video games official websites), as those should absolutely kept around no matter what. If I receive no further comment, I will move it to the CT during the second-half of the week. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 15:10, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
