Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:WP:Civility addition
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The result of the debate was Support proposal. Imperators II(Talk) 06:57, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the debate was Support proposal. Imperators II(Talk) 06:57, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
A small tweak proposal for Wookieepedia:Civility. It's quite small, thus opted to go for a CT instead of a SH. Essentially, I'm suggesting adding a bullet point under ..."Some more serious examples include:" in the "Examples of incivility" section to mirror WP:Discord's language of banning sexual humor.
I feel as if this is particularly relevant due to incidents both past and present era here on the Wook, especially since we often have many editors who are not over 18, and there's no real purpose behind allowing such derogatory comments—putting it as a listed example of incivility will make it easier for admins to issue sanctions when necessary, as current Discord policy only covers the server, not here on-site. It's something that the Wook of the past was rife with—but is not something we tolerate today, in any fashion, so it's more codifying precedent if anything.
The new proposed "Examples of incivility" bullet point under the "serious examples" would read:
Sexual humor, particularly when pertaining to minors or directed at another contributor
—spookywillowwtalk 23:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Support
- —spookywillowwtalk 23:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
- Braha'tok enthusiast Hello there 23:59, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
- —SnowedLightning (they/them) 00:01, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- NanoLuukeCloning Facility 00:01, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Sexual humour and comments directed at anyone aren't necessary to cataloging Star Wars... Manoof (he/him/his)
00:02, 5 March 2023 (UTC) - Absolutely necessary. HeadSpikesWalls (she/they) (talk!) 00:03, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Immi Thrax (she/her) 00:05, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
SorcererSupreme21 (talk) 00:06, 5 March 2023 (UTC)(Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Blocked user -- OOM 224 (he/him) 21:30, 5 March 2023 (UTC))
Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:09, 5 March 2023 (UTC)- - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 00:11, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Kirajynjedi (talk 00:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- CT-1742 (talk) 00:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Rsand 30 (talk) 00:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Dropbearemma (she/her) 01:14, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 03:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Imperators II(Talk) 07:36, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- 01miki10 Open comlink 11:49, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- LucaRoR (Talk) 14:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Bonzane10 (talk) 15:29, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Fan26 (Talk) 19:50, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Supreme Emperor Holocomm 20:05, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- OOM 224 (he/him) 21:14, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Rakhsh (talk) 23:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Dentface (talk) 23:55, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:33, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- Jarhead002 (talk) 22:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
Why stop at humor? The Discord should be safe for a 13-year-old to enter freely. Any conversation at all that delves into sexual topics should be frowned upon, not just jokes. Can we make an amendment? I welcome discussion here, I'm just curious is all. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 00:36, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- I agree, this should apply to more than just humor. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 00:41, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Would likely require a different CT per Jade: this is for WP:Civility, not for WP:Discord. Admittedly, it's somewhat worth noting that quite a few (even recent) Star Wars releases either allude to or include sex scenes. A ban on all sexual topics would technically restrict convos about the SW novels & etc. that are geared/rated for adults, as a few of the novels released by Disney/Lucasfilm either do or heavily depict explicit scenes. Those novels are properly tagged & marketed toward adults, but ultimately, they're licensed content and people do tend to discuss the plot of those works. I'd argue derogatory humor is much different than most sexual topics—WP:PRIDE, for instance, focuses entirely on including and better documenting queer sexualities. Those sources have been and (probably) will continue to be published with those scenes in them.—spookywillowwtalk 00:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Obviously, we are here to discuss and chronicle Star Wars primarily, so if an entry were to mention sexual topics, it wouldn't be out of the question to see discussion pertaining to it. And shouldn't anything within WP:Civility cover WP:Discord? Jade Moonstroller (talk) 00:56, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- I more meant that this CT specifically is to amend WP:Civility; the Discord would be affected by it, but to specifically amend the list of Discord rules, a different CT aimed at WP:Discord would be necessary (as WP:Discord only bans sexual humor, at the moment). But yes: we do sometimes see discussion about characters who've engaged in acts that might be rated explicit in SW works geared toward adults: but if this were amended to ban any delving into sexual topics, it would prevent that, and somewhat hinder WP:Pride's scope of, documenting sexuality & the like.—spookywillowwtalk 01:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Very well, I will amend my amendment: any conversation at all that delves into sexual topics should be frowned upon, save for topics that directly relate to Star Wars. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 01:03, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- I think that's a bad idea because even if admins and mods recognise that talk about queerness shouldn't be covered by a sexual topics ban, it may well have a chilling effect, particularly on new people, and trying to officially carve out an exception for queer people would be...it would be really hard to phrase. Particularly on wook, there's a really awful history of suppressing any discussion of queerness. Obviously there's absolutely a limit to what is allowed even outside of humour, but that's not what your proposed ban communicates. Dropbearemma (she/her) 02:17, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Once again, I am open to discussion. I am continuing with trying to hear other perspectives and such, and thought that perhaps a good discussion might come out of this. Of course, I want to make this place as safe as it can be for anyone to come in. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 03:02, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- We're having a discussion, and we're saying it's a bad idea. I understand why it might appear like a good idea at first, but it's not. Dropbearemma (she/her) 03:35, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- It's not much of a discussion if people are not willing to discuss. Like I said, there's room for improving it. The line is somewhere here, it's just finding it is the point. Clearly jokes are a no-go, but what is? Topics when they directly pertain to Star Wars, sure, and to the creators as well, absolutely. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 03:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Echoing the sentiments on Forum:SH:The way I see things—every individual's right to openly discuss and be accepted for their sexuality and gender is something that falls under the ToU, and is not something we can or should censor because it may be deemed "sexual", as those are, by virtue of what they are, often sexual topics. The line is simply: we allow people to discuss this, and we don't discriminate for it—per the ToU, but also I would hope, because it's decency.—spookywillowwtalk 03:44, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- I am concerned, and I hope this gets across clearly. No, I am not looking for censorship here. People need to have the freedoms to express themselves and their lives without fear. Anyways, I suppose we are done here. I am just looking for security, that's all. Jokes are it then. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 03:51, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Echoing the sentiments on Forum:SH:The way I see things—every individual's right to openly discuss and be accepted for their sexuality and gender is something that falls under the ToU, and is not something we can or should censor because it may be deemed "sexual", as those are, by virtue of what they are, often sexual topics. The line is simply: we allow people to discuss this, and we don't discriminate for it—per the ToU, but also I would hope, because it's decency.—spookywillowwtalk 03:44, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- It's not much of a discussion if people are not willing to discuss. Like I said, there's room for improving it. The line is somewhere here, it's just finding it is the point. Clearly jokes are a no-go, but what is? Topics when they directly pertain to Star Wars, sure, and to the creators as well, absolutely. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 03:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- We're having a discussion, and we're saying it's a bad idea. I understand why it might appear like a good idea at first, but it's not. Dropbearemma
- Once again, I am open to discussion. I am continuing with trying to hear other perspectives and such, and thought that perhaps a good discussion might come out of this. Of course, I want to make this place as safe as it can be for anyone to come in. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 03:02, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- I think that's a bad idea because even if admins and mods recognise that talk about queerness shouldn't be covered by a sexual topics ban, it may well have a chilling effect, particularly on new people, and trying to officially carve out an exception for queer people would be...it would be really hard to phrase. Particularly on wook, there's a really awful history of suppressing any discussion of queerness. Obviously there's absolutely a limit to what is allowed even outside of humour, but that's not what your proposed ban communicates. Dropbearemma
- Very well, I will amend my amendment: any conversation at all that delves into sexual topics should be frowned upon, save for topics that directly relate to Star Wars. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 01:03, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- I more meant that this CT specifically is to amend WP:Civility; the Discord would be affected by it, but to specifically amend the list of Discord rules, a different CT aimed at WP:Discord would be necessary (as WP:Discord only bans sexual humor, at the moment). But yes: we do sometimes see discussion about characters who've engaged in acts that might be rated explicit in SW works geared toward adults: but if this were amended to ban any delving into sexual topics, it would prevent that, and somewhat hinder WP:Pride's scope of, documenting sexuality & the like.—spookywillowwtalk 01:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Obviously, we are here to discuss and chronicle Star Wars primarily, so if an entry were to mention sexual topics, it wouldn't be out of the question to see discussion pertaining to it. And shouldn't anything within WP:Civility cover WP:Discord? Jade Moonstroller (talk) 00:56, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Would likely require a different CT per Jade: this is for WP:Civility, not for WP:Discord. Admittedly, it's somewhat worth noting that quite a few (even recent) Star Wars releases either allude to or include sex scenes. A ban on all sexual topics would technically restrict convos about the SW novels & etc. that are geared/rated for adults, as a few of the novels released by Disney/Lucasfilm either do or heavily depict explicit scenes. Those novels are properly tagged & marketed toward adults, but ultimately, they're licensed content and people do tend to discuss the plot of those works. I'd argue derogatory humor is much different than most sexual topics—WP:PRIDE, for instance, focuses entirely on including and better documenting queer sexualities. Those sources have been and (probably) will continue to be published with those scenes in them.—spookywillowwtalk 00:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)