Forum:CT:Sourcing pronouns and gender

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The result of the debate was Support. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:14, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello! Based on the feedback from Forum:SH:Pronoun amendments for MOS and Sourcing policy, I want to put forward the following pronoun– and gender–related amendments for our Sourcing policy. The Manual of Style parts of the wider proposal will be put to a separate vote at a later point.

The policy additions would codify current practice that pronouns must be cited to sources that explicitly provide them; otherwise, they should not be assumed. It would be the same for gender, which may also be drawn from source's use of definitively gendered terms like "princess" or "boy." Additionally, the proposal would codify current practice that the same information, such as pronouns and ranks, need not be cited repeatedly throughout an article.

The full proposal: 

In the "When to use references" section, remove:
  • If an entire paragraph can be sourced to one and only one source, add the reference at the end of the paragraph. However, if there is more than one source, then reference specific sentences as necessary. Finally, if that is not enough, tag individual words as necessary, as a last resort. At a minimum, each paragraph and table row must be referenced. A cell that spans multiple rows references the information in the preceding cells of those rows.
Replace with:
  • If an entire paragraph can be sourced to only one source, add the reference at the end of the paragraph. However, if there is more than one source, then reference specific sentences as necessary. Finally, if that is not enough, tag individual words as a last resort.
    • Avoid repeatedly making separate references for the same information in an article body. For example, if a person's pronouns or rank can only be sourced to [1], then that reference must be made upon the first mention of the information in the article body, but it can be spared in subsequent mentions where the rest of the sentence uses other references.
    • For tables, at a minimum, each table row must be referenced. A cell that spans multiple rows references the information in the preceding cells of those rows.
In the "Formatting" subsection of the "Reference rules" section, add:
  • An individual's gender must be cited to a source that explicitly mentions it or refers to the individual by gendered terms (e.g. "princess" or "boy"). Pronouns do not indicate an individual's gender, and if no source specifies the individual's gender, then it should not be assumed.
  • An individual's pronouns must likewise be cited to a source that explicitly mentions those pronouns. If no source specifies the individual's pronouns, the article may use non-assumptive singular "they/them" pronouns.

Support

  1. OOM 224 (he/him) 20:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  2. Imperators II(Talk) 20:06, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  3. Fan26 (Talk) 20:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  4. Nice work TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:15, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  5. —spookywillowwtalk 20:22, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  6. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 20:44, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  7. VergenceScatter (talk) 20:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  8. Lewisr (talk) 20:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  9. 01miki10 Open comlink 21:13, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  10. Ayrehead02 (talk) 21:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  11. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 21:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  12. Jarhead002 (talk) (he/him) 22:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  13. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 22:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  14. Rsand 30 (talk) 23:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
  15. Bonzane10 Sabine Starbird (holonet) 00:20, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
  16. It doth make sense. Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 09:11, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
  17. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 15:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
  18. Asithol (talk) 21:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

  • "Princess" and "boy" are pretty clearly gendered terms from which we can assume the person's gender, and of course there are fringe cases like "Yes sir!" in military contexts that could apply to non-males as well. However, these cases can be sorted out on a case-by-case basis, which is the current practice. OOM 224 (he/him) 20:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)