Forum:CT:Re-re-evaluating the S apostrophe issue

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Re-re-evaluating the S apostrophe issue
This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was No consensus. Imperators II(Talk) 09:01, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Per recent (half-joking) discussion on Discord, the topic of possessive nouns/Proper nouns ending in "s" came up again. More specifically, the consistency of use for either "s's" or "s'". To be even more specific, this refers to the singular possessive nouns which end in "s", not plural possessives (which should always use "s'").

Current policy reads as follows: "While plural nouns ending in "s" should be made possessive by adding only an apostrophe, singular nouns ending in "s" can be made possessive by adding either an apostrophe followed by another "s" or simply an apostrophe, providing each article is consistent throughout. Users are encouraged, but not required, to use only an s' for possessive nouns ending in a Z-sound. For example, while discussing the armor of multiple Mandalorians, one would write "Mandalorians' armor"; but while discussing the armor of Darth Nihilus, one could write "Nihilus's armor" or "Nihilus' armor.""

While we currently allow either form to be utilized, though still require that it be consistent on a page-by-page basis, there seems to be some sentiment that it should be consistent on a wiki-wide basis, regardless of page.

This CT comes in two parts. The first dictates whether or not a specific form (either "s's" or "s'") should be codified into being required for wiki-wide use. The second vote is contingent on the first, and will dictate which should be codified in the case that the first vote passes.

Addendum per discussion: If codified, the CT will not affect the titles of articles based on which of the two an official source utilizes, if the article's name is based on the official source. How to treat these usages will be addressed in a future SH should the CT pass.

Vote 1: Codify only one possessive "s" form wiki-wide

Support

  1. DFaceG (talk) 21:51, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  2. SilverSunbird (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  3. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-ColliderYeager's Repairs 22:15, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  4. consistency! BloodOfIrizi Sabine Starbird (talk) 22:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  5. Borderline vote; I view this as unnecessary but I also like consistency. SorcererSupreme21 (talk) 23:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  6. Consistency. Samonic Signatureicon (Talk) 09:57, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. 01miki10 Open comlink 22:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  2. Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 22:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  3. —spookywillowwtalk 23:34, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  4. RogueWhistler (talk) 23:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  5. Both are grammatically correct and as this is an entirely subjective thing, no reason to change it. It also should have gone to SH first. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 23:46, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
    1358 (Talk) 06:11, 26 October 2022 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Banned user -- OOM 224 18:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC))
  6. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 06:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  7. Imperators II(Talk) 09:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  8. OOM 224 16:02, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  9. Supreme Emperor Holocomm 17:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  10. Jarhead002 (talk) 21:11, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
  11. Corellian PremierRogue SquadronMTFBWY 23:53, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
  12. Per JediMasterMac. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 23:56, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
  13. ThrawnChiss7 (talk) 15:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
  14. LucaRoR Sigil of House Serenno (Talk) 11:40, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Vote 2: Which possessive "s" form should be codified into wiki-wide use?

DISCLAIMER: VOTE 2 CONTINGENT ON VOTE 1 PASSING.

"s's"

  1. Consistency between every other word is imperative here. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-ColliderYeager's Repairs 22:15, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  2. —spookywillowwtalk 23:34, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  3. Preference o' mine. SorcererSupreme21 (talk) 23:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  4. Imperators II(Talk) 09:55, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  5. Samonic Signatureicon (Talk) 09:57, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
  6. SaintSirNicholas (talk) 19:54, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
  7. ThrawnChiss7 (talk) 15:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

"s'"

  1. DFaceG (talk) 21:51, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  2. SilverSunbird (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  3. american bias aside, this just looks cleaner BloodOfIrizi Sabine Starbird (talk) 22:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  4. RogueWhistler (talk) 23:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  5. I agree that this looks cleaner; I always use this form, and if we do end up standardizing, I like this version better. Jarhead002 (talk) 21:12, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
  6. Corellian PremierRogue SquadronMTFBWY 23:53, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
  7. LucaRoR Sigil of House Serenno (Talk) 11:40, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Discuss

  • As brought up on Discord, should this CT pass, further discussion of how to treat sources that officially use one or the other will be in a separate SH. This CT is essentially just for general usage of either. - DFaceG (talk) 22:10, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Both are grammatically correct and we shouldn't waste time checking sources for this, which I'm guessing may itself be inconsistent depending on authorial/editorial preference Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 22:40, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
    • This CT only addresses general use; as mentioned in my comment above, articles whose names are impacted by which one an official sources uses would be addressed in a future SH. IE, this CT does not affect articles named with either if it's based on what an official source uses. —Unsigned comment by DFaceG (talk • contribs)
      • That just reinforces my position as we'll have articles named one way using the other way for other plural possessives, meaning it will be enforced to be inconsistent within the same article Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 02:09, 26 October 2022 (UTC)