Forum:CT:Non-commercial audiobook versions

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Non-commercial audiobook versions
This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Support proposal. Zed42 (talk) 02:05, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

So, after some group reviewing and research, we've come to the following conclusions about the audiobooks produced by Talking Book Publishers, the American Foundation for the Blind, and American Printing House for the Blind (and a few others). See Category:Audiobooks without ISBN for examples, aside from the German ones, which are an entirely separate case.

  • These are non-profit organizations that are re-releasing the commercial material for accessibility purposes, and are not releasing them commercially - in TBP's case, they're only accessible behind the Oregon library website that most of the audiobook articles cite.
  • In TBP's case in particular, the group doesn't even have an official website
  • None of these audiobooks have ISBNs, further cementing the fact that they're not official or commercial re-releases of the products. All other audiobooks that we document have ISBNs, with the exceptions of those that are digital-only releases, but they still have unique cover art and are found on their publisher's websites.
  • Listening to one of the audiobooks, they mention that they have the permission of the publisher (in that case Bantam Spectra) and made them while citing a law about the Library of Congress (which also lists the audiobooks in its catalog) - but do not state that they have permission by Lucasfilm or any other company.

Personally, given the above criteria, I don't believe that these audiobooks qualify for listing in our articles' Appearances sections, as they're not separate products, they're not commercial releases, and they have no official recognition.

So, my proposal is the following:

  1. Remove all audiobook versions from our Appearances sections that are non-commercial re-releases by non-profit organizations.
  2. Delete the articles for these audiobooks, but document them on the respective novel's page, whether in External Links or the Media section below the list of commercial releases with ISBNs.

Update: Per ecks's suggestion, I am also proposing the WP:LG#Audiobooks section be replaced with the following, as it will be rendered greatly out of date if this CT deletes most of the audiobooks linked there:

  1. Audiobooks should be listed in the Appearances section, after the book that they are adapting, and ordered by publication date in the case of multiple audiobooks.
    • Audiobook editions that are not commercial releases, such as the accessibility versions published by Talking Book Publishers, should not be listed in the Appearances.
  2. When multiple audiobook editions of a single story are listed, and they do not all share the same publisher, differentiate between editions by specifying the audiobook's publisher within {{C}}
  3. When multiple audiobook editions of a single story are listed, and they share the same publisher, differentiate between editions by whether or not they are abridged, and then differentiate by publication year:
  4. Audiobook editions need not differentiate if they do not compete for the same title (example: Heir to the Empire: The 20th Anniversary Edition audiobook)

Support

  1. As proposer. I'll also handle the bot-removal of the appearances, since I added them a few weeks back in the first place. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 18:27, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  2. LucaRoR CIS roundel (Talk) 18:29, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  3. Braha'tok enthusiast Hello there 18:32, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  4. — YakovChaimTzvi ChissAscendancyCanonSymbol (talk) 18:33, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  5. Yeah, I'm definitely for listing them on the books' articles, but I don't think they need separate listings in Appearances Minnabird Naboo (talk) 18:51, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  6. Stong support. VergenceScatter (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  7. 01miki10 Open comlink 19:04, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  8. Begone! MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 19:37, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  9. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 19:59, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  10. Imperators II(Talk) 20:09, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  11. Tommy-Macaroni 21:25, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  12. OOM 224 22:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  13. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 22:23, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  14. IFYLOFD (Talk) 22:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  15. Ayrehead02 (talk) 22:58, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  16. SilverSunbird (talk) 23:10, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
  17. Lewisr (talk) 00:28, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
  18. Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 00:56, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
  19. Commander Code-8 Hello There! 06:09, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
  20. 1358 (Talk) 10:08, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
  21. Green Tentacle (Talk) 23:50, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
  22. Fan26 (Talk) 19:51, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
  23. Zed42 (talk) 21:30, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
  24. Supreme Emperor Holocomm 23:09, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
  25. Wok142 (talk) 17:12, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

Comments

For clarification, it is not true that the TBP editions are only available through the Oregon library service; a cursory search of the Library of Congress's NLS catalog shows that Allegiance (Talking Book Publishers Inc. audiobook), for instance, is available through the National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled. However, these editions appear to be produced by production studios contracted by the NLS, rather than the original publishers (see NLS FAQs) and available through library services rather than commercially, so the point stands. Minnabird Naboo (talk) 19:57, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Given we have an audiobook subsection in the Appearances section of the Layout Guide, it would be good if this proposal included an LG amendment. 1358 (Talk) 19:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)