Forum:CT:Moving /Legends and /Canon pages

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Moving /Legends and /Canon pages
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The result of the debate was Oppose. Ayrehead02 (talk) 11:47, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Usually I post a Senate Hall thread before a CT, but this one is a pretty clear cut one. I believe that the restriction behind moving /Legends and /Canon pages between one another's namespace has served its purpose and is now more of a hindrance in the long-term. Back when /Canon pages were being created on an extremely common basis and vast swathes of /Canon pages would need to be swapped into the namespace of their Legends counterparts, leaving the ability to move them up to the bots and admins made sense. It would have been rather tedious to manually move numerous of these pages, one, by one, by one, by one…

Now, however, /Canon pages are no longer created as commonly. Not a rarity, mind, but they are no longer created frequently enough for the batch moving to be a necessity—the massive batches of them are a thing of the past. Nowadays it's typically a few pages at most. As mentioned, being unable to swap /Canon pages with their respective Legends namespaces has become more of a hindrance as a result.

As such, this CT is a simple vote: to remove the restriction for non-bots and non-admins (with the exception of anonymous editors) on moving Legends pages to /Legends namespace and /Canon pages to the non-/Canon namespace. A "Support" vote is in favor of removing this restriction, while an "Oppose" vote is against removing this restriction.

Support

  1. As proposer. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 10:00, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
    TomotronSith Quad-SunSith Council 10:08, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
    Sanathestarr (talk) 10:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. Rsand 30 (talk) 10:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
    Thanks Bonzane10 Sabine Starbird (holonet) 10:57, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  3. Anything a bot can do, a user should be able to do as well. Page moves always require redirect fixing, and broken links are the fact of any website that is dynamic or acts as a living document. Not all users are on discord, and while it may be easier to use the bot, that shouldn't necessitate or restrict its use. Bots aren't always online, can have their issues and not work, it would be good to not have policy that requires their use. If those concerns are genuine and valid, then all page moves should be restricted. ℳÅℕ☉❂Ⅎ he/him/his 05:49, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
  4. In the minority, but gotta agree with Manoof on this. I thought bots were created to assist editors, not replace them. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 17:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
  5. Per Manoof and JMAS. ThrawnChiss7 Mitth symbol Assembly Cupola 14:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. *rises from his coffin and shuffles to find caffiene* Alright, so this is actually something us admins have been talking about behind the scenes, but I have been working on installing RoboCade within C4-DE Bot to a) make RoboCade scripts callable via Discord and b) set up scheduled RoboCade scripts. This will include the Canon/Legends switcher (which is running as I type this, btw) that I plan on setting up as a weekly script, with a single-article command available for administrators when a /Canon article is nominated. I'm wary of letting any user move these pages because it is probably the most complex script I have, it's not just fixing redirects, it's full-on replacing pages and any missed links will end up pointing to dead pages or the wrong pages. I fully accept the blame on the process being a hindrance, as I know I've not always been the easiest to reach in the past, but I will work on that and also hope to make this process smoother with the above C4-DE improvements. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 14:52, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  2. Per Cade. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 14:55, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  3. The revered tech-priest as spoken. NanoLuukeCloning Facility 15:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  4. Tommy-Macaroni (he/they) 15:12, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  5. Changing per Cade. Completely forgot ab the mess tied to the redirect links. Bonzane10 Sabine Starbird (holonet) 15:13, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  6. In Cade We Trust Fan26 (Talk) 15:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  7. Heh. But yeah, was in the works as of the last calendar week, so the timing of this is purely coincidental, but may as well leave to bot especially if we'll be able to kick it off via command.—spookywillowwtalk 15:43, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  8. A totally valid idea, but Cade's solution leaves less risk of people missing redirects and makes sure non-mainspace pages get fixed as well. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:50, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  9. Heh, there was a discussion? Busy days indeed. OOM 224 (he/him) 16:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  10. Per the coding guru, sorry Thannus. —TomotronSith Quad-SunSith Council 00:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
  11. Per Cade. Supreme Emperor Holocomm 05:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
  12. Changing vote as Cade makes a good point Sanathestarr (talk) 16:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
  13. Braha'tok enthusiast Hello there 15:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  14. Because it's very easy to break things without knowing exactly what you're doing, and because we have a reliable way to automate the process that anyone can access with reasonably low effort, I see now reason not to just rely on the bot. Master FredceriqueCommerce Guild(talk) (he/him) 17:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  15. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 18:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

  • If possible, I think at least keeping it restricted from anon is a good idea. Bonzane10 Sabine Starbird (holonet) 10:28, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
    • I agree. I'll modify the vote now while it still has two votes. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 10:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Sounds good, but I'll wait for Cade to chip in before I vote. I do think it's a good idea to limit such page moves to autoconfirmed users (which means Fandom accounts that have been registered for at least four days), with an additional edit count requirement of 50 edits or more. Those are the current requirements for users wishing to upload a file. These can be easily implemented via Special:AbuseFilter. OOM 224 (he/him) 13:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
    • (It's a process that takes a few steps: changing Legends links, moving the Legends page, changing the canon links, and moving the canon page. It would be ideal to minimise the period in which there are broken redlinks and incorrectly titled pages.) OOM 224 (he/him) 13:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I fully acknowledge that it's far easier and more efficient to let the bots do it, especially given the redirect fixing. However, I still maintain that restricting registered users from manually moving the /Canon and /Legends pages just seems like a redundancy at this point. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 02:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
  • To speak to some of the points that Manoof makes, in an ideal world all moves would be handled by bots to ensure that all redirects were always handled correctly and in a timely fashion; however, to my understanding there'd be no easy way to automate a general page move process and certainly not one that happened on a recurring basis. This is a specific subset of page moves that can and has been automated to ensure no errors take place given its consistent nature and so we might as well benefit from the automation and reduced risk where we can. While not all users have access to Discord, this shouldn't matter if a swap happens on a weekly basis anyway since they won't need to use any command for the change to happen within a reasonably short timeframe. If a page does for some reason need to happen more rapidly or the bots do temporarily go down, someone from the admin team is almost always avaliable at fairly quick notice both onsite and on Discord to make moves manually and with the experience to know everything that entails. Overall this greatly reduces risk of incorrect linking and deadlinks and at most results in a user having to wait a week for a page move to happen. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)