Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Unidentified Twi'lek 1 (Ambush in Cloud City)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Unidentified Twi'lek 1 (Ambush in Cloud City)

  • Nominated by: Darth Morrt 09:32, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:Another SWM nom.

(3 ACs/2 Users/5 Total)

Support

  1. Kilson 23:08, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
  2. Nice work. ~SavageBOB sig 15:41, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 19:39, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
  4. ACvote 1358 (Talk) 20:31, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
  5. ACvote Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:42, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

Object

Return of the PIE
  • You should combine the last two sentences in the intro to make it read smoother.
    • Done.
  • The second sentence of the Bio is an run-on. You need to split it in two sentences and mention that Raynor had Lando attacked out of revenge or something along those lines.
    • Addressed.
  • Could you mention in the Bts who the player is in control of during the conflict. Is the player playing as Lando?
    • One plays Lando, one plays Bossk. There is no dedicated Gamemaster in Miniatures.
  • Other than those three, nice job Morrt. Kilson 05:46, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review. Darth Morrt 09:43, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
Prepare to be savaged…
  • Could you change the name to something a bit more descriptive? Certainly, there must be something in the character's biography or physical description that you could add as a descriptor instead of the numeral 1. Unidentified Twi'lek scoundrel (Bespin) maybe? ~SavageBOB sig 22:42, April 8, 2011 (UTC)
    • Number 1 is necessary, bacause there is another. Moved. Darth Morrt 01:41, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
    • *Is there nothing that distinguishes #1 from #2? I understand if there isn't. ~SavageBOB sig 02:30, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
        • Nothing. The source mentions "two Twi'lek scoundrels". Their articles are actually the same, but reworded. Darth Morrt 07:04, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
          • In a case like this, I see nothing gained by keeping the articles separate, so I'd lump them together as "Unidentified Twi'lek scoundrels (Cloud City)" or something. See, for instance, Unidentified Viidaav servers. I don't know if there's a policy on this, so this isn't an objection per se, just a suggestion. ~SavageBOB sig 15:56, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
            • Considering they are two separate individuals, no, lumping them together in one article is not a good idea at all. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 01:03, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
              • Different strokes for different folks. That's why I said it was a suggestion and not an objection. ;) ~SavageBOB sig 01:21, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
  • One other thing: is the scenario supposed to always go down in this way, or should the RPG and Gameend templates be used? ~SavageBOB sig 01:30, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
    • The actual play begins when the blast door is shut behind Lando's party. Both sides have different victory conditons: Boosk had to kill the guards and capture Lando, and Lando must call reinforcements and escape through the hangar. Boosk's ending contradicts the short story Lando Calrissian: Idiot's Array, so Lando's ending is the only possible canon ending of the scenario. Darth Morrt 13:25, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • Cool. Add this last bit about there only being one canonical ending to BTS, and we're good to go! ~SavageBOB sig 14:53, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
  • Switching back to oppose for the moment. Roleplaying adventures and miniatures scenarios include things that actually happened in-universe, events, and stories. Thus, they should be classified as appearances, not sources. I changed this, but it got changed back for some reason. ~SavageBOB sig 14:59, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
    • Actually... role-playing scenarios give a sourcebook-esque description of the events, their background, and what the player can do with them, but they're not IU narratives or anything resembling what normally goes into the "Appearances" section. There's tons of established precedent for them being in the sources section, so I think you'd have to go to the Senate Hall to challenge this. Menkooroo 15:21, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
      • It depends on what part of the supplement is being used, the "action/stuff that happens" or the background material. Why would the action be different from a video game, say, simply because it's played out in the player's mind or on a tabletop instead of a computer or TV screen? Just ask CavalierOne; he has to deal with this all the time with DarkStryder stuff. ~SavageBOB sig 15:38, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
        • If you look at any of Cav's Darkstryder articles, you'll see that the "Appearances" section is generally limited to short stories that are found in the sourcebooks. A player's interpretation of an RPG scenario isn't an "Appearance," for innumerable reasons, all of which I'd be happy to elaborate upon in an SH thread if you want. But I think it's best not to start a whole thing about it here. Menkooroo 15:46, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
          • It was GM Tranner, who changed it back to Sources. Two of my related GAs, Ambush in Cloud City and Unidentified Twi'lek bodyguard list this scenario as a Source, too. Darth Morrt 16:16, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
            • I reverted Bob's edit after consulting with Toprawa, who agreed that this particular scenario is a source. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 19:39, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
              • What's the reasoning? ~SavageBOB sig 21:00, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
                • Read the article and you'll see that it's describing the scenario entirely from an OOU perspective, rather than putting the reader into the story from an IU standpoint like many other roleplaying adventures do. This is therefore a Source, not an Appearance. Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:28, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
                  • Yeah, I read it trying to make that distinction, but the part that seems to fit the bill as an "adventure" is the last group of sections, where players take on the roles of the two sides. This makes this into an interactive narrative à la an RPG adventure or an MMORPG. Especially fitting this bill are the "victory conditions" parts. All in all, this reads as an original narrative (not a summary one, like an entry in the CSWE, say), which, as I understand it, is the distinguishing marker between an appearance and a source. ~SavageBOB sig 19:29, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
                    • No, you're making this more difficult than it needs to be. The distinction between an Appearance and a Source, generally speaking (because there are exceptions to the rule, extraneous to this instance), is whether something is an in-universe narrative. There is no IU narrative text in this article. It's explaining from an OOU perspective how to play the scenario. This is really pretty basic stuff. I'm not sure how else to explain it more clearly than that. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:38, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
                      • Making things difficult is my job! ;) Fair enough, though. I think even by that metric, this should be an appearance (since the article acts as "software" to make the in-universe battle happen on someone's tabletop, like a video game without the TV or console), but I can drop it for the moment; it's not worth hashing out here. Thanks for the explanation. ~SavageBOB sig 22:03, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
Moffship
  • In the intro, please briefly explain why Raynor was targeting Calrissian.
    • Done.
      • Please rephrase this somewhat, as it doesn't clearly explain why Raynor wanted to go after Calrissian. Additionally, try to remove the second "who..." Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 20:07, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
  • Does the source specifically call Calrissian an "extraordinary sabacc player"? Either way, I don't think "extraordinary" has any place in an article like this.
    • Yeh, the source calls him exactly this way. Removed.
  • That's all. Good work. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 01:03, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • If this character appears on one of the Miniatures: Rebel Storm cards, that should probably be added to the Sources list. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:49, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
    • The card and the corresponding figure does not represent any character. It is just a generic Twi'lek scoundrel. Another participant of the ambush and maybe a couple of other characters from other scenarios are also represented by this generic figure. Darth Morrt 22:44, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
  • "Calrissian's escorts decided to hold their enemies off while the Baron Administrator escaped through a nearby hangar. The Twi'lek engaged his opponents with a long dagger in the combat." These two sentences are somewhat choppy, can they be merged with each other or with previous/following sentences?
  • "Thanks to the distress call sent by a member of Calrissian's party, a quartet of Wing Guards arrived to assist the Baron Administrator, who fled the ambush through the hangar." You've already said he fled through the hangar; mentioning it twice seems redundant. Perhaps change this sentence to "…who successfully managed to flee from the ambush." 1358 (Talk) 20:16, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 20:42, April 15, 2011 (UTC)