Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Hurati

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Hurati

• Nominated by: –Alexander 14:49, August 22, 2015 (UTC)
• Nomination comments: I read Hard Contact recently, and since non-droid Separatist officers have always interested me, I decided to expand on this character's article.

(0 ACs/3 Users/3 Total)

Support

1. Trip391 (talk) 17:36, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
2. Good job! Imperators II^(Talk) 10:54, January 6, 2016 (UTC)
3. I like this guy. --Jinzler (talk) 21:27, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

Object

Toprawa

• Hello. Since I believe this is your first GA nomination, I find it's best to take things a little slower to help you learn the routine of nominating articles and how a status article should be structured. I first want to make sure that you're aware that this article needs to be comprehensive. If there's any bit of information pertaining to this character that you've skipped over or maybe summarized a bit too much, make sure you're writing in comprehensive detail.
• Articles may not have any infobox-exclusive information. Meaning that if there is information being presented in the infobox, it needs to be detailed somewhere in the article body, not counting the intro. Right now, I'm seeing the 22 BBY date mentioned in the infobox and nowhere else. Once you handle these objections, I'll proceed with my review. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:16, September 2, 2015 (UTC)
  • I added the date into the first paragraph. There is nothing I skipped over, but is there anything that you think may be in too much detail and should be shortened/removed? –Alexander 23:11, September 2, 2015 (UTC)
    • I will be able to tell you that once I finish my review, which I'm going to do section by section. I've corrected the P/T quote, so make sure you watch out for quote accuracy in the future. You'd be amazed how often people get that wrong. It's just a matter of transcribing it verbatim from the original source. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:09, September 3, 2015 (UTC)
• A few Biography preliminaries:
  • It's customary for Biography sections in character articles to introduce the character in a formal way similar to how the intro does it. The key to remember here is that the Biography is totally independent from the intro, meaning that just because you introduce some detail in the intro, you shouldn't rely on that to tell your story for you in the Biography. Case in point, the Bio never really introduces the fact that Hurati is an Umbaran. That detail is just sort of mentioned in passing at the end of the first Bio paragraph. Your Bio doesn't need to, and in fact shouldn't, be worded identical to the intro, but there should be some sort of introduction for the character.
  • One thing I'm really liking from an eye test of the article is the paragraph sizes. They're perfect. A lot of people struggle with writing massive walls of text while forgetting that this is the Internet and people like to read smaller paragraphs, not to mention they're better aesthetically, so very nice job there. Once an article starts to get to four paragraphs, I usually recommend seeing if you can subsection the Biography at all. Doing so would also allow you to use more quotes if they are available. See what you can do there. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:25, September 10, 2015 (UTC)
    • I've added the fact that he is an Umbaran into the first sentence of the first paragraph, and I split the biography into a couple of subsections. But unfortunately I no longer am in possession of the book, so I cannot look for more quotes at the moment. I'll get the book again, which will take a few days, and then I'll comment here again to let you know that I found another quote. –Alexander 00:44, September 18, 2015 (UTC)
    • I've added a quote to the section section. –Alexander 01:01, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
    • I'm just wondering if you could take a look at the modifications, since its been more than a month. –Alexander 20:22, November 22, 2015 (UTC)
• I'm concerned over what I'm perceiving as a fairly serious lack of detail in the article. Writing an article comprehensively doesn't mean giving a generalized synopsis or summary of a character's actions; it means comprehensively detailing all of his actions. When you asked in your previous comment whether I felt there was any part of the article going into too much detail, I think you need to consider the exact opposite. It's far better to go into too much detail and then work on trimming it down from there than it is to not be detailed enough. I've never read this book, so I'm not familiar with the material, and I'm relying totally on what I can scan through in a downloaded text version of the novel. But just from seeing how extensively Hurati appears throughout this story, it really seems like the four little paragraphs you're giving this character is woefully inadequate. To put it another way, the length of this article doesn't seem to pass the eye test. Again, I can only skim through this story and pull out tidbits, but these are just a few examples of things I'm seeing that aren't in this article, or are maybe glossed over too generally: a) Hokan considers Hurati to be a "good man." This is textbook material for the Personality and traits section. b) "Hurati didn't strike him as an officer that would waste his time." More textbook P/T material. c) There's a scene where Hurati and Hokan enter a farmhouse and find dead civilians, whom Hurati initially thinks the Republic killed. d) Hurati is using a comlink. Is he using any other equipment? Any type of technology he uses should be detailed in an "Equipment" section. Please check the Layout Guide for more information on this. e) I see you've got in the P/T the bit about Hurati's military posture, but that sentence also talks about how Hokan never saw him sneaking a drink or scratching himself. Additionally, you've got the bit about him being loyal, but there's more about him being eager to obey. f) The story mentions an excavator bomb in relation to Hurati. Why isn't this in the article? Give me more detail! Give me all the details! I think the best thing for you to do with this article is go back to the very beginning of the Biography, open the novel back up, and go through every place where Hurati appears and expand on details. Go to another level of detail in your writing. If Hurati sees droids, tell me what kinds of droids. If Hurati is traveling somewhere, tell me how he's traveling there; on a speeder, for example? It wouldn't surprise me at all if you doubled the length of the Biography. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:25, January 14, 2016 (UTC)
  • The majority of Hurati's appearances in the novel are him speaking with/getting orders from Hokan, so there isn't very much in regards to biography that I could add. I could, I suppose, try to add some more information on the individual conversations he had with Hokan, however, I already gave general summaries on them, and below another reviewer told me to do that rather than go into too much detail in the conversations to avoid it sounding like 'Hokan said this, Hurati said that'. I did emphasize that Hokan views Hurati to be a good man on several occasions, such as the quote at the top of the page, talking about the fact that he asked Hurati to look after Cuvin, promoted him after Cuvin's desertion, and then talked more about it in the personality section. I could add more on the subject in the personality section, however. Secondly, I can go through the novel again to see if there are any other details I can add to the biography that I haven't before, and I'll let you know here when I get finish with that. –Alexander 00:17, January 15, 2016 (UTC)
    • It's ok to go into detail on their conversations, but yes, you should avoid the "Hokan said this, Hurati said that" play-by-play. But it falls to you as the writer to come up with some creative methods for keeping your prose fresh while avoiding falling into that trap. As for the P/T content, never rely on quotes to do your writing for you. If there's something to say, then make sure you include it in the article. In this case, calling him a "good man" is rather specific praise from Hokan. That's something you should definitely make explicit note of rather than hinting at it with other details. This may be a good opportunity to tell you that it's ok to refrain from mentioning specific personality traits in the Biography as long as you're mentioning it in the P/T, which is really the more appropriate place for them. It's even ok to skip certain events or exchanges in the Bio as long as you're still including them in the P/T; this is ideal in some cases to avoid repetition between the two sections. Ok, I'll wait for your revisions. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:14, January 15, 2016 (UTC)
      • Just an update: I'm still working on it, but the copies of the book at my library are checked out, so I have to wait to get them again. –Alexander 01:32, January 27, 2016 (UTC)

Trip

• The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia mentions that Ghez Hokan escaped his facility with his chief lieutenant, and took Uthan's remaining research team hostage, so I added it as a source. It also refers to Ghez Hokan as a former Mandalorian, as he had enjoyed his work in the Death Squad too much, which the article should address as well.
• I've fixed a couple redirects, but the article could use a lot more links. Remember, something can be linked to once in the infobox, once in the intro, once as a caption, and once in the general body, including personality and traits and behind the scenes.
• The second sentence in the body states that the CIS was protecting Lik Ankkit, the local Neimoidian boss. Can you describe what he is the boss of, the Separatist scientists or is he a crime lord? Trip391 (talk) 04:44, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
  • I added more links, and made the line with Ankkit more specific. But what do you mean by Death Squad? Death Watch? –Alexander 16:29, October 24, 2015 (UTC)
    • TCSWE says Hokan was a former Mandalorian who was asked to leave because he enjoyed his work in the Death Squad too much. The article for Hard Contact links "Death Squad" to Death Watch, but Hokan should be referred to as a former Mandalorian throughout the article, not as a Mandalorian. Trip391 (talk) 09:37, October 27, 2015 (UTC)
      • Oh, alright. I added former to it. –Alexander 13:59, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

Imperators II

• Per WP:MOS, "a subject should be linked once upon its first mention in the article's infobox, once upon its first mention in the article's intro, and once upon its first mention in the article's main body." — In the very first Biography sentence, I'm seeing "species" and "Ghez Hokan" that should be linked to. Please correct that and check for other such instances, as well. Imperators II^(Talk) 02:28, January 1, 2016 (UTC)
  • Done. –Alexander 00:32, January 3, 2016 (UTC)
• Make sure that all the information that you present in the intro is also present in the article's body, for instance, the bit about the Verpine shatter gun is currently only in the info.
  • I added the Verpine shatter gun info to the body. I also added information on the Jedi Padawan, who was mentioned in the intro. Everything else appears to be in the body as well. –Alexander 00:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
    • In the intro, you mention a "hundred battle droids". That should be added to the body, as well.
      • Done. –Alexander 05:01, January 6, 2016 (UTC)
• Provide some context on RC-1136 both in intro and the body.
  • I mentioned that he was clone who became separated from the rest of Omega Squad, and that he ran into a Jedi Padawan later on, before reuniting with the squad. –Alexander 00:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
    • Context for RC-1136 still needed in intro. Imperators II^(Talk) 01:12, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
      • Done. –Alexander 05:01, January 6, 2016 (UTC)
• Please see what you can do about simplifying and streamlining this bit: "The two Umbaran lieutenants searched the site. Hurati located the remains of several droids positioned in a formation by the commandos, which they left as a sign to one of their own who became separated from them that they had been there. Hokan saw it as an attempt by the commandos to taunt them." The second sentence is particularly confusing.
  • I rewrote this part of the paragraph. –Alexander 00:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
• The whole second paragraph of the "Separatist officer" subsection needs some careful rewording to avoid potential confusion. For example, "He explained it to Cuvin when the lieutenant did not understand their actions." — who explained it to Cuvin? Remember, when personal pronouns alone can be unclear and confusing, you can always also refer to individuals by their species or rank, or both, for example, the Umbaran lieutenant.
  • I rewrote the last couple of sentences of the paragraph. –Alexander 00:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
• In the Personality & traits section, the fragment "to which the former Mandalorian responded by telling him that they had handcarts they could use" is unnecessary, since it does not provide any info on Hurati's personality.
  • I removed that part. –Alexander 00:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)
• I believe that no harm could come from identifying the team of clone commandos as the Omega Squad here and there throughout the article. Imperators II^(Talk) 01:30, January 3, 2016 (UTC)
  • I added Omega Squad at several points throughout the article. –Alexander 00:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)

Jinzler

• In the introduction it is stated Hurati nearly killed clone commando RC-3222 after shooting him from behind with a Verpine shatter gun, but later died himself when RC-1136, another Omega Squad commando, turned around and shot him in the head. I feel that this would read better if some context was given to the circumstances under which Hurati nearly killed RC-3222, for example by stating that this took place during an attack by the commandos on the Separatist nanovirus facility (if this is the case?) or something similar.
  • I added when it took place. –Alexander 21:13, January 10, 2016 (UTC)
• The Umbaran asked his superior how the local farmers would be able to transport their crops to the town of Teklet for shipping, to which the former Mandalorian mercenary responded by telling him that they possessed handcarts. This sentence is a bit play-by-play, ie the sentence feels like it is saying that "Hokan said this, then Hokan said that." This should be streamlined down a bit to just summarise the key details of their discussion, eg to say something along the lines of that Hokan ordered Hurati to delcare a curfew on repulsorlifts depsite concerns that Hurati had about the problems that this would have for farmers transporting their crops
  • I rephrased this sentence. –Alexander 21:13, January 10, 2016 (UTC)
• The pair were able to catch up with Omega Squad and the Jedi would it be possible to provide some indication how long after escaping the facility (eg shortly afterward?) Hurati and Hokan caught up with the clones and where this encounter took place, to add some extra context.
  • I added that it took place not long after their attack on the facility. –Alexander 21:13, January 10, 2016 (UTC)
• It would be beneficial to add a final sentence to the last paragraph of the "Biography" section to provide some detail in brief about what happened in the aftermath of Hurati's death, eg the clones then defeats Hokan or were victorious in their mission or something.
  • I added a couple of sentences on what happened afterwards. –Alexander 21:13, January 10, 2016 (UTC)
• He also took note of the fact that Hurati always stood with a military posture, even when not being under scrutiny. This sentence is not very objective, ie it is stating details re Hurati's personality from Hokan's perspective. It would be more impartial to state that Hurati always stood with a militart posture even when not under scrutiny and that this caught the attention of Hokan during Hurati's deployment on Qiilura.
  • I rephrased this sentence. –Alexander 21:13, January 10, 2016 (UTC)
• In the "Behind the scenes" section you could also add an additional sentence to state that he was later mentioned in The Complete Star Wars Enclopedia--Jinzler (talk) 22:27, January 8, 2016 (UTC)
  • I added that bit of information originally, but it seems someone removed it. At any rate, I added it again to that section. –Alexander 21:13, January 10, 2016 (UTC)

Comments

Vote to remove nomination (AC only)

1. Unaddressed objections from January, user absent since February. - Sir Cavalier of One^{(Squadron channel)} 22:49, June 2, 2016 (UTC)
2. IFYLOFD ^(Talk) 22:55, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
3. Exiled Jedi (talk) 20:31, June 4, 2016 (UTC)