- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Featured article that failed review. Please do not modify it.
RC-1013
- Requested By: Hanzo Hasashi (talk)
- Date Requested: 21:58, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- Date Archived: 02:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
Object
- Behind the scenes with only partial citations.
- Verify if 22 and 19 BBY are mentioned by name in "The Package," as his squad's article makes a separate note for year citations. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 21:58, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Comments
RC-1013 can't be the leader of the unidentified commando squad
I've explained the issue on the talk pages for RC-1013, RC-1013'S clone commando squad, and The Package, but in a nutshell this is the issue that I have: How do we know that the leader of the unidentified commando squad shown in the story "The Package" (CWA 3) is RC-1013 (Sarge)? Sarge does appear in "Orders" (CWA 4) as the leader of Aiwha Squad, but I am not sure how he is determined to have appeared in "The Package" (CWA 3). Perhaps there is another mention in a source other than the story that he is the unidentified squad's leader, but otherwise, I see no connection. It is possible that someone assumed these two clones are the same person based on armor markings, but if you look at the armor, then you'll see that they are not similar. The unnamed squad leader in "The Package" has two red pauldrons, each with what appears to be a GAR emblem. In "Orders", Sarge has one red pauldron and no emblems. I think that the commando squad in "The Package" should be disassociated with Sarge unless there is another source that says otherwise, and if so, then that source should be added to all of these articles. Red Heathen (talk) 01:48, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
"Order 66: Destroy All Jedi" — Star Wars Insider 87 doesn't mention anything about Sarge outside of the events where he killed Traavis, so no mention of "The Package" or if he's that clone. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. III, p. 127 ("Sarge") and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. III, p. 84 ("RC-") further don't mention anything that makes it clear he was the clone this article is treating him as from "The Package." Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 02:36, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Addendum:
What's In a Name? on Look, sir! Zombies! — Ryan Kaufman's StarWars.com Blog (original site is defunct) mentions Sarge as a "brave sergeant from Clone Wars Adventures Vol. 3." So, as I haven't directly checked the comic set, he's somewhere in there. Whether definitely the character in "The Package" that this article treats him as being, possibly another clone sergeant in the comic, or maybe even a clone sergeant in "One Battle" (only other comic that lists clone troopers appearing in its article, granted no sergeants however), I can't say without checking the comics directly. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 02:46, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Very nice finds! Big pat on your back! You did some serious searching, and I'd love to see your SW library. I'd like to say that not a single clone commando is in anyway identified in "The Package", including by rank. "One Battle" does have a clone wearing red marked armor, but he's a commander and is also wearing a red and grey pauldron, and besides that, Kaufman didn't write it. I think I used the word "pauldron" incorrectly in my previous comment when discussing the armor of Sarge in "Orders" and the armor of the commando in question in "The Package". By the way, I referred to the latter as the leader of the unidentified commando squad, but there isn't really anything in the comic that says he is the leader. He is the one who asks the ARC trooper a question in the beginning, but I don't know if this is truly indicative of leadership. Changing the topic now to Kaufman's statement on the old SW website. If what he posted on there ends up being a sufficient source to list Sarge as the leader of the unidentified commando squad in "The Package", then can we use what Karen Traviss said about the commando squads that were left unnamed in her novel Hard Contact? Like Kaufman and other VIP's, Traviss' account was official and verified so it seems possibly reliable. Twitter accounts are used for reference on Wookieepedia even though Matt Martin, Leland Chee, and someone else I cannot recall said that social media accounts are not canon source material. If Wook recognizes those, then why not the blog and forums considering the accounts were VIP? I think I've seen Leland Chee's old SW blogs and forum replies as references on Wook. If it is decided that we can use these, then can we use one of Traviss' posts in a forum thread titled "Ask Karen...(Karen Traviss approved)"? She replied to a user when asked about the unnamed republic commando squads in Hard Contact and named the squads, but Wookieepedia hasn't allowed those names to be used. Because of this decision, one is now "unidentified" (formerly Prudii Squad), and the other (formerly Lambda Squad) uses the sergeant's name. However, somehow Teroch Squad was overlooked when Wook admins decided that the old SW source wasn't official, and that article's title is still Teroch Squad instead of Unidentified commando squad (RC-8015), which is likely what it would have been titled if not missed. I hope this all makes sense. I appreciate your diligent helpfulness. =) Oh, one more thing. Kaufman mentions the "brave sergeant" in CWA 3. All the men were brave, and he isn't identified as a sergeant in that volume. Kind of conversely, in "Orders", Sarge is just as brave (as are the other commandos who were KIA). Do you think Kaufman could have made a mistake and meant to say CWA 4? I read the link you provided for his blog, and when he mentions RC-1013 (who is named in "Orders" CWA 4 - he is discussing naming the clone commando), he also brings up GGAR in the same paragraph. I've looked through the stories and can't find anything GGAR (not meaning they are not there). Do you know what he might be talking about? If this took place in the same story, then this might help identify whether or not he intended to say CWA 4. Then again, I'm sure this man knew exactly what he was talking about and most likely this wasn't a mix up. Red Heathen (talk) 05:25, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic is what's being referenced. I feel like there's a good chance he was talking about the right volume, even when licensed So, with all of the clones being clearly brave in "The Package," is more than one of them seen last alive? As for if you're thinking Ryan Kaufman was possibly talking about Volume 4 and "Orders," this is an example of where an author made an erroneous reference to something different than what they really meant. Granted, this was also Dan Wallace talking about media for which he wasn't involved with, but still. So if he definitely appears in "The Package" but maybe it's not obvious which clone he is, I can also add that as an objection. Also yes, I'm glad to help always. :) Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 20:06, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Can we please find out if we can change the Republic Commando squad names from unidentified to the names that Traviss posted on the official SW website if it is decided that we can use what Kaufman said on there? I think it would be great to have the actual names. Thanks again! Red Heathen (talk) 21:54, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Those shouldn't be canon, but definitely behind the scenes notes to be made. As comparison, Jason Fry's endnotes and forum posts for The Essential Guide to Warfare were treated not as anything canon, but notes were made in behind the scenes. Hopefully this helps, and I'm happy to help more as needed. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 01:08, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help, but I have one more question...I'm so sorry if you've answered it and I didn't understand. RC-1013 is in the title of this unidentified commando unit. If we can use information shared by VIPs in their SW blogs and posts in BTS but not use the information in the articles themselves, then why is RC-1013 in the title of the squad? Red Heathen (talk) 01:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm confused by this, sorry. RC-1013's clone commando squad (Ord Mantell) is a conjectural name, and it's not like Prudii or Lambda Squad, which aren't canon names. Is there something I'm not understanding? Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 01:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- I think it must be something I'm not understanding. I'm so sorry. I have a difficult time with the easiest things. I'll stop asking questions, but thank you for your patience. Red Heathen (talk) 01:37, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oh no, please don't feel like you have to stop asking any questions! As a community, it's a good thing to be open to all questions. If any individual members, which in this case could be possibly myself with these questions, can't help, then always feel free to seek help and hopefully someone will be able to. :) Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 02:18, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- I think it must be something I'm not understanding. I'm so sorry. I have a difficult time with the easiest things. I'll stop asking questions, but thank you for your patience. Red Heathen (talk) 01:37, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm confused by this, sorry. RC-1013's clone commando squad (Ord Mantell) is a conjectural name, and it's not like Prudii or Lambda Squad, which aren't canon names. Is there something I'm not understanding? Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 01:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help, but I have one more question...I'm so sorry if you've answered it and I didn't understand. RC-1013 is in the title of this unidentified commando unit. If we can use information shared by VIPs in their SW blogs and posts in BTS but not use the information in the articles themselves, then why is RC-1013 in the title of the squad? Red Heathen (talk) 01:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- Those shouldn't be canon, but definitely behind the scenes notes to be made. As comparison, Jason Fry's endnotes and forum posts for The Essential Guide to Warfare were treated not as anything canon, but notes were made in behind the scenes. Hopefully this helps, and I'm happy to help more as needed. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 01:08, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
- Can we please find out if we can change the Republic Commando squad names from unidentified to the names that Traviss posted on the official SW website if it is decided that we can use what Kaufman said on there? I think it would be great to have the actual names. Thanks again! Red Heathen (talk) 21:54, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic is what's being referenced. I feel like there's a good chance he was talking about the right volume, even when licensed So, with all of the clones being clearly brave in "The Package," is more than one of them seen last alive? As for if you're thinking Ryan Kaufman was possibly talking about Volume 4 and "Orders," this is an example of where an author made an erroneous reference to something different than what they really meant. Granted, this was also Dan Wallace talking about media for which he wasn't involved with, but still. So if he definitely appears in "The Package" but maybe it's not obvious which clone he is, I can also add that as an objection. Also yes, I'm glad to help always. :) Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 20:06, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Very nice finds! Big pat on your back! You did some serious searching, and I'd love to see your SW library. I'd like to say that not a single clone commando is in anyway identified in "The Package", including by rank. "One Battle" does have a clone wearing red marked armor, but he's a commander and is also wearing a red and grey pauldron, and besides that, Kaufman didn't write it. I think I used the word "pauldron" incorrectly in my previous comment when discussing the armor of Sarge in "Orders" and the armor of the commando in question in "The Package". By the way, I referred to the latter as the leader of the unidentified commando squad, but there isn't really anything in the comic that says he is the leader. He is the one who asks the ARC trooper a question in the beginning, but I don't know if this is truly indicative of leadership. Changing the topic now to Kaufman's statement on the old SW website. If what he posted on there ends up being a sufficient source to list Sarge as the leader of the unidentified commando squad in "The Package", then can we use what Karen Traviss said about the commando squads that were left unnamed in her novel Hard Contact? Like Kaufman and other VIP's, Traviss' account was official and verified so it seems possibly reliable. Twitter accounts are used for reference on Wookieepedia even though Matt Martin, Leland Chee, and someone else I cannot recall said that social media accounts are not canon source material. If Wook recognizes those, then why not the blog and forums considering the accounts were VIP? I think I've seen Leland Chee's old SW blogs and forum replies as references on Wook. If it is decided that we can use these, then can we use one of Traviss' posts in a forum thread titled "Ask Karen...(Karen Traviss approved)"? She replied to a user when asked about the unnamed republic commando squads in Hard Contact and named the squads, but Wookieepedia hasn't allowed those names to be used. Because of this decision, one is now "unidentified" (formerly Prudii Squad), and the other (formerly Lambda Squad) uses the sergeant's name. However, somehow Teroch Squad was overlooked when Wook admins decided that the old SW source wasn't official, and that article's title is still Teroch Squad instead of Unidentified commando squad (RC-8015), which is likely what it would have been titled if not missed. I hope this all makes sense. I appreciate your diligent helpfulness. =) Oh, one more thing. Kaufman mentions the "brave sergeant" in CWA 3. All the men were brave, and he isn't identified as a sergeant in that volume. Kind of conversely, in "Orders", Sarge is just as brave (as are the other commandos who were KIA). Do you think Kaufman could have made a mistake and meant to say CWA 4? I read the link you provided for his blog, and when he mentions RC-1013 (who is named in "Orders" CWA 4 - he is discussing naming the clone commando), he also brings up GGAR in the same paragraph. I've looked through the stories and can't find anything GGAR (not meaning they are not there). Do you know what he might be talking about? If this took place in the same story, then this might help identify whether or not he intended to say CWA 4. Then again, I'm sure this man knew exactly what he was talking about and most likely this wasn't a mix up. Red Heathen (talk) 05:25, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Marked for probation at 1 month unaddressed.—spookywillowwtalk 00:16, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- Addendum:
Vote to retain Featured status
Vote to strip Featured status
Month on probation.—spookywillowwtalk 00:09, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Braha'tok enthusiast Hello there 01:08, 4 July 2023 (UTC)- Supreme Emperor Holocomm 02:55, 5 July 2023 (UTC)