Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Zsinj (Redux review)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Reduxed Featured article. The result of the discussion was Featured article status lost. Please do not modify the page.

Zsinj (Redux review)

  • Redux comments: Article was Reduxed per INQ 102 due to large changes.
  • Date added: May 5, 2019

(+1)

Support

  1. Inqvote Impatiently waiting for Zsinj: A Star Wars Story. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:22, September 2, 2019 (UTC)

Object

Exiled Jedi
  • There are some fairly large paragraphs that should be broken up. The first paragraph in the intro and the second paragraph in Zsinj's rank and uniform especially stand out.
    • This is a purely subjective criticism, and I don't see a problem with the way it is now, so honestly, at this point I really wish people who want the paragraphs broken up would just break them up themselves. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 12:33, May 10, 2019 (UTC)
    • It has been brought to my attention that my effort to suppress my natural tendency toward assholery has been inadequate, but I wanted to take some time to think before I attempted to clarify this. First, you may note that at the same time I posted this, I also posted below noting that a redux review was a good idea. I appreciate the leniency I have been granted and the opportunity to improve my work. However, this objection has been the most frustrating one for me because I honestly see no issue with the layout of the article as it stands. As far as I can see, it looks fine in both the full version and in FANDOM's annoying little javascript preview window, and I feel that splitting up the paragraphs any further would just be an effort to cater to the short attentions spans of users who belong on one of FANDOM's other fine sites and not Wookieepedia. My previous message was literally an invitation to other users to collaborate on this objection, and I apologize if my tone caused it to be taken differently. I have no {{inuse}} tag on this article, and Inquisitors have advocated the {{sofixit}} rule in the past, so this seemed like a logical idea. However, if this is unacceptable, then I ask that you please list all the paragraphs with which you take issue so I may implement the mutilation of the article in one fell swoop and not prolong the agony. Thank you. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 13:33, May 12, 2019 (UTC)
  • You mention all of the equipment from Cracken's Threat Dossier, but there are other items listed in Rebellion Era Sourcebook that are not mentioned.
  • There appear to be some relevant skills in Zsinj's entry from Cracken's Threat Dossier that are not referenced in the article.
    • Added everything that seems relevant that hasn't already been touched on somehow. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 23:26, May 25, 2019 (UTC)
  • Cracken's Threat Dossier mentions that he cannot lie convincingly despite years of practice. This should be in the P&T.
    • I'm going to have to finesse this one a bit, since his appearances in the Wraith Squadron books are nothing but lying. 😐 -- Darth Culator (Talk) 12:33, May 10, 2019 (UTC)
  • Are there any quotes that can be added to the BTS? I see that there is an archived page where Allston discusses his novels.
  • Looking at Allston's FAQ, it looks like some information could probably be added to the BTS.--Exiled Jedi (talk) 03:16, May 6, 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm not entirely sure how to address these two. The FAQ is mostly about the books and the writing. I may have to wedge a whole nother section into my BTS. 😐 -- Darth Culator (Talk) 23:26, May 25, 2019 (UTC)
    • Actually, I'm going to have to request some clarification here. This objection is kind of vague, and I'm not sure exactly what you expect me to add. I don't really know how much of Allston's FAQ really applies directly to Zsinj's biography. BTS sections are very much not my forte, so I would appreciate some guidance as to what you think is appropriate. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 16:00, May 31, 2019 (UTC)
      • The section about Zsinj being defeated by Solo under Iron Fist has the author speaking about Zsinj's tactics and the inspiration for that battle. I think that is worthy of being included in the article BTS.--Exiled Jedi (talk) 23:42, June 1, 2019 (UTC)
        • Alright, well, as much as I hate BTS sections, I think I managed to squeeze a few good bits in. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 00:56, June 13, 2019 (UTC)
Imp
Tommy
  • Duplicate links.
    • The only duplicate link now remaining according to the standard dupe checker is a pipelink in the BTS that I think is needed to add some detail without excess verbosity. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 16:13, June 29, 2019 (UTC)
      • Honestly I would prefer a couple more words to give context than a duplicate link. WP:MOS#Linking is pretty abiding. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 15:33, June 30, 2019 (UTC)
        • Fair enough. Last dupe link nuked. Although I could get into a semantic argument about the use of the word "should" in the MOS, but it's just easier to make the change. 😁 -- Darth Culator (Talk) 00:34, July 1, 2019 (UTC)
  • If multiple references are used, they should be arranged in ascending order.
    • Refs are all now sorted in the order first used in the article. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 16:13, June 29, 2019 (UTC)
  • Images with spaces in their names should use underscores instead.
  • Some images are missing size specifiers.
  • I'm going to object to the use of "<!-- information -->" in the sources list. They detract from the formal nature of the article, even in the editing screen, and should only be used when necessary, like to draw attention to a common misconception. These notes on sources aren't necessary, and would be much more befitting on a personal workbench. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 19:23, June 27, 2019 (UTC)
    • That's fine, they'll be in the history if I need them. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 16:13, June 29, 2019 (UTC)
Anil
  • The audiobook adaptations of the novels in the Appearances should be checked and added to the list if necessary. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 05:29, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
    • Can you clarify this objection? Unless you know of a specific discrepancy, I think we should assume that the audiobooks are identical to the text. We don't even have separate articles for the audiobooks of the X-wing series, which is true for the VAST majority of books. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 23:11, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
      • I have taken care of the audiobooks myself, please feel free to change anything I have added. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:16, July 25, 2019 (UTC)
  • I think the article could use some more mentions of BBY/ABY dates for its events. The dates in the infobox, in particular, are kinda infobox-exclusive.
    • Added birth and death dates, working on adding other dates. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 20:49, August 4, 2019 (UTC)
    • Alright, I added a date reference for every unambiguous, verifiable year change during his life, plus a few more in the aftermath. Anything else would be gratuitous, I think. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 14:34, August 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm okay if you feel there is no proper room for it, but I think this image depicting the borders of Zsinj's Empire could be useful somewhere in the article body. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:47, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
    • I think it works. Slid it in right before his downfall, and put the Dathomir picture in a more logical place. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 21:01, August 4, 2019 (UTC)
  • The article is inconsistent about the use of dash in "nonhuman/non-human." Please revise.
  • Isn't Gamma-9104, the enhanced Gamorrean individual, notable enough to have its own article? TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 08:28, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
  • The article is inconsistent about the capitalization of Nightcloak. Please revise.
    • Sources are inconsistent on this. Courtship starts lowercase, then we go to uppercase in Fact Files, then back to lowercase in CSWE, then back to uppercase in the Imperial Handbook (I didn't check ALL the sources, but I assume there's a similar level of inconsistency throughout). So I'm just going to go with the latest word on it and capitalize. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 02:40, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
  • In the first and third paragraphs of BTS, can the release dates (months, to be specific) be sourced directly to the novels?
    • For the novels, yes. Each one has something along the lines of "A Bantam Spectra Book / February 1998" on the copyright page. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 02:40, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
  • Same question for Cracken's Threat Dossier and The Official Star Wars Fact File 83.
    • I actually can't figure out WHERE we got the dates for these, but I'm going to take some time to hunt them down before I rework my BTS for the umpteenth time. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 02:40, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
    • Mmkay, nailed down CTD to about the most official possible source, which was a pain since checking that source is like consulting a Ouija board, but I got it. Still working on the Fact File. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 12:05, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
    • Finally figured out where the date came from. 2015 Wookieepedia was a savage and lawless place. But I made it work. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 22:23, August 24, 2019 (UTC)
  • In the fourth BTS paragraph, I don't think Allston's death in 2014 can be sourced to that FAQ.
    • Sourced the death date to a source just one step removed from the coroner himself. 😁 -- Darth Culator (Talk) 12:05, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
      • Never thought we would use a funeral home page on the Wook. :D TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 14:11, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
  • Also about that FAQ, its {{WebCite}} suggests that it was released in 2013; however, there are 2012 captures of the page on Wayback Machine.
    • I was going by the "last updated" date at the bottom of the page on the final archived version. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 02:40, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
  • (Not an objection) Maybe that's just my personal opinion, but I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia links in in-universe sections of articles. If it was up to me, I'd just remove the Wikipedia link for handlebar moustache in that image caption, but I am leaving that up to you.
    • I know I don't often like to make concessions to user-friendliness, but since Wookieepedia is not a dictionary and I have no idea how prevalent this term is outside of North America, I feel this is justified, just this once. Though I did move the link into the article body, which I should have done long ago. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 02:40, August 16, 2019 (UTC)
  • "Project Funeral was an ambitious endeavor." "Zsinj's plan for recovery was fairly simple." "The Battle of Selaggis was not a long one." "In Solo's characteristic fashion, he resigned his commission, kidnapped Leia, and took her to his planet." There are several sentences in the article, such as these, that kinda feel like you are slightly presenting events from your own point of view. Of course, I can't be certain without reading at least large portions of the novels, so I'll just take your word for it. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:17, August 10, 2019 (UTC)
    • Before anyone thinks I've forgotten about this, I was only informed that this was actually an objection even though it wasn't really worded like one ("I'll just take your word for it") on the 24th. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to work on it yet due to being laid up with a rather unpleasant medical issue. I'll get to it as soon as I regain the mental capacity to edit my own writing and am physically able to reliably feel my fingers, and I humbly request the Inquisitorius grant a stay of execution in the interim. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 00:34, August 29, 2019 (UTC)
    • Okay, I'm going to address some of these with rebuttals, so I apologize in advance if I seem a bit ornery.
      1. "Project Funeral was an ambitious endeavor." Per CSWE, "Project Funeral One of Warlord Zsinj's most ambitious actions against the New Republic." Ref added.
      2. "Zsinj's plan for recovery was fairly simple." -- No argument here. This one was actually better off reworked anyway. 😛
      3. "The Battle of Selaggis was not a long one." Per The Essential Reader's Companion, "The Iron Fist’s hyperdrive is ruined by Gara, momentarily stranding the ship in the Selaggis system." (emphasis mine) -- Reference added.
      4. "In Solo's characteristic fashion, he resigned his commission, kidnapped Leia, and took her to his planet." The Essential Reader's Companion says "In true Corellian scoundrel fashion, he ventures into the seamy underworld of Coruscant and enters into a high-stakes sabacc game, emerging as the winner of an obscure planet, Dathomir. He then kidnaps Leia and takes her to this world, all in a desperate effort to impress upon her how important she is to him." Additionally, Cracken's Threat Dossier references "Solo's rather 'unorthodox' methods of problem-solving" shortly before describing the kidnapping, though it doesn't apply the descriptor as directly to the kidnapping itself as the ERC does. My point, though, is that it's hardly news that Han Solo is a swashbuckling pirate, so it shouldn't be considered a matter of opinion to describe him as such.
    • Please let me know if there are any other instances of excessively florid language that need adjustment. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 16:24, September 2, 2019 (UTC)
OOM
  • What's with all these "Mmes"? OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 10:37, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
    • You obviously figured out that I was just copying the source, though I would love to expand it to madame if there was a canonical basis. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:55, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The space between the final and penultimate images could use another image. OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 21:32, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
  • "the ancient tradition of his father's Fondorian caste," the words "ancient" and "caste" in particular, cannot be sourced to the blogpart1 ref. Same goes for "Naval Command" in paragraph three.
    • Hmm, didn't originally want to break up the ref, but fixed the caste bit. As for naval command, that seems to have been one deduction too far on my part. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Inconsistency between "the Iron Fist" and simply "Iron Fist."
    • Not just Iron Fist, actually. Added a crapload of "the"s to bring into compliance with MOS 7.1.1.4 as much as reasonably possible. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
  • "Galey, a support staffer aboard Mon Remonda, activated the Twi'leks Tal'dira and Nuro Tualin just before the Battle of Jussafet Four, and then tried to kill Edda Gast, but failed to do so." Not clear as to what this sentence is saying. Did Galey himself try to kill Gast? Perhaps Galey activated the agents to kill Gast, or either intentionally or unintentionally activate*d the agents, who then tried to kill Gast?
  • Sounds like Selaggis VI's moon could use an article of its own.
    • It has a name, actually. (Which, yes, is still referenced to Solo Command.) Not sure how I forgot to add that. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Per WP:MOS#Individual starships and space stations, individual starships should be referred to using "it/its" instead of "she/her," regardless of what the source uses.
  • Can a quote be added to the "Zsinj's rank and uniform" section? OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 00:24, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
  • One last thing: since CTD is a source written from an IU point of view, the article should talk about the mentions of Zsinj in New Republic reports featured in CTD (e.g. quotes by Baden Lathe in the article), like how Tzuhakk broadsword talks about Mace Windu's mention of the subject. OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 08:31, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
UberSoldat
  • For anyone that wishes to maintain the article:
    • There is a new precedent to combine the time and place of death into a single ref note.
    • Is the character mentioned in Dark Nest I's abridged audiobook?
    • BTS hosts some Appearances/Sources regurgitation. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 07:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Comments

  • So Redux is still a thing? Probably a good idea. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 12:33, May 10, 2019 (UTC)

Vote to remove nomination (Inq only)

  1. Inqvote Unaddressed objections from Shay over 2 weeks old. Tommy-Macaroni 12:44, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 15:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Imperators II(Talk) 15:42, 21 April 2021 (UTC)