- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.
Zare Leonis
- Nominated by: ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:39, December 18, 2017 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: I've been working on improving and needling at this article for a long time and at this point, I think it's finally time to nominate it. Zare Leonis, lead character of the Servants of the Empire quartet and sure to be a crowning jewel of Wookieeproject Rebels if we can get it passed. If it does pass, I'd also like to state that Andykatib is welcome to share the banner for helping to promote it to featured status, as he did a lot of work on this article as well. In working on this article, I've tried to take what I've learned from my nominations of Holshef and Voorpee (both of which haven't yet passed, but are stable at the moment) and apply it, though I don't doubt there'll still be stuff I've missed, so have at it.
- P.S.: I realize there is a small chance that Zare may still appear in the second half of the final season of Star Wars Rebels. I am subscribed for the show and if this does happen, I will make sure to update the page with all due speed. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:41, December 18, 2017 (UTC)
(0 Inqs/0 Users/0 Total)
(Votes required: 3 Inq vote(s) required to reach minimum. Additional 4 user or 2 Inq votes required to pass.)
Support
Object
Ecks Dee
Large swaths of the bio are devoid of any imagery. Please find images of something related to the prose if there are none of Leonis.- Alright, I've added a good seven or eight. Let me know if you think I need more. I want it to have good images for illustration, but I don't want to put stuff in just for the sake of having images. This is particularly true towards the final section, where it depicts a large swath of stuff never really covered anywhere book in the book The Secret Academy. Still, I tried to add in a few relevant images. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:43, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
Missing backup links. Page is currently in Category:Pages with missing permanent archival links- Okay, I've swept through everything in both the Sources and the Notes and references, but it's still showing it as being in that category. So I don't know if maybe it takes time for that category to repopulate, but as far as I can tell, I've added archive links for everything that can be. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:47, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- Fixed. The culprit was the last databank template using
archiveinstead ofarchivedate. To clarify, when it comes to citation templates other than {{cite web}}, you should pass eitherarchivedateorarchiveurl. If there's a working archived version on IA, then just pass the IA timestamp asarchivedate=. If you need to use another archive website such as webcitation, pass the full URL of the archive copy asarchiveurl=. Some citation templates don't supportarchivedateat the moment but that should be fixed eventually. Check out my edit and let me know if you need further elaboration. 1358(Talk) 22:28, March 21, 2018 (UTC)- I think it's all clear now. Thank you for your edits regarding that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:43, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Fixed. The culprit was the last databank template using
- Okay, I've swept through everything in both the Sources and the Notes and references, but it's still showing it as being in that category. So I don't know if maybe it takes time for that category to repopulate, but as far as I can tell, I've added archive links for everything that can be. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:47, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
Missing Equipment section.- The layout guide states that this section is for any "notable ships, weapons, or other equipment" associated with the character. He doesn't have a ship associated with him, his use of weapons is limited to generic blasters issued by the Empire (already described in his skills and abilities) and I don't think there's any other notable equipment unless you count the diplopod, but that's really more of a living mount. I'm just not sure I see a purpose for having this section in this article, but I would appreciate direction if you do think it would serve a purpose.
- By no means do you need a gigantic section detailing every item he's ever used or worn, but at least the armor he uses seems to be featured quite extensively and you could also mention if there are any gadgets he uses frequently. 1358 (Talk) 22:28, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- Alright, I've gone ahead and added the equipment section. The stormtrooper armor was a good point, and I've also hit a few other highlights. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:04, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- By no means do you need a gigantic section detailing every item he's ever used or worn, but at least the armor he uses seems to be featured quite extensively and you could also mention if there are any gadgets he uses frequently. 1358 (Talk) 22:28, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- The layout guide states that this section is for any "notable ships, weapons, or other equipment" associated with the character. He doesn't have a ship associated with him, his use of weapons is limited to generic blasters issued by the Empire (already described in his skills and abilities) and I don't think there's any other notable equipment unless you count the diplopod, but that's really more of a living mount. I'm just not sure I see a purpose for having this section in this article, but I would appreciate direction if you do think it would serve a purpose.
Following the recent Mofference, infobox fields with multiple items are restricted to one sub-bullet (*Foo **Bar is allowed).1358 (Talk) 20:42, March 8, 2018 (UTC)- Alright, I went ahead and removed that, based on my read of that, though really specific seems more pertinent to me than general. Would it be better to include the details about his specific unit information instead? ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:47, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- It was agreed at the Mofference to not force editors' hands when choosing which affiliations to put in the infobox, but in this case I'd actually recommend going with *Galactic Empire **Unit Aurek. As a general rule, the "top level" and the "bottom level" affiliations are probably those that you'll want to use. 1358 (Talk) 22:28, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- That makes sense to me. Done. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:43, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- It was agreed at the Mofference to not force editors' hands when choosing which affiliations to put in the infobox, but in this case I'd actually recommend going with *Galactic Empire **Unit Aurek. As a general rule, the "top level" and the "bottom level" affiliations are probably those that you'll want to use. 1358 (Talk) 22:28, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- Alright, I went ahead and removed that, based on my read of that, though really specific seems more pertinent to me than general. Would it be better to include the details about his specific unit information instead? ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:47, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
Subjects in references should be linked as if each reference was an article on its own.- Do you mean even if it's been linked earlier in the article, it should still be linked within the reference? And, if so, this is new to me. Where does it say that we're supposed to do that? I couldn't find it in the Manual of style or any of that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:24, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
- No, this isn't anything new, Tofty. Look at how the references are formatted on Holshef. It may not be covered by policy, but there is a clear precedent for this, and it's common sense, too, given that it helps the reader with quick navigation while reading the article. Imperators II(Talk) 21:45, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
- WP:S, rule 7. 1358 (Talk) 22:14, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks! That's what I was looking for. It does make sense, but it was new to me. Anyway, I went ahead and got that all linked up. I didn't link "world" within "real-world" or "universe" within "in-universe" because of the context. If anyone disagrees, though, feel free to link it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:38, March 30, 2018 (UTC)
- WP:S, rule 7. 1358 (Talk) 22:14, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
- No, this isn't anything new, Tofty. Look at how the references are formatted on Holshef. It may not be covered by policy, but there is a clear precedent for this, and it's common sense, too, given that it helps the reader with quick navigation while reading the article. Imperators II(Talk) 21:45, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
- Do you mean even if it's been linked earlier in the article, it should still be linked within the reference? And, if so, this is new to me. Where does it say that we're supposed to do that? I couldn't find it in the Manual of style or any of that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:24, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
You have a plethora of duplicate links in the body. There's a gadget for finding those; it can be activated in the Gadgets tab in your preferences.Got it. Didn't think to check for that when proofreading those earlier sections that I didn't write. As far as I can tell, they're all gone now. That gadget's a useful tool. Thanks.ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:00, March 28, 2018 (UTC)
The Bts would be better off starting with a mention of where he first appeared and a rough date for that medium.- How's that now? ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:43, March 30, 2018 (UTC)
Please check the Bts image caption; there's a redlink there right now.- I think that had to do with the trading card, but it's already corrected by the time I read this objection. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:17, March 27, 2018 (UTC)
I don't suppose there's any available quote for the Early life section? No quote where he talks about his childhood or something?- Of course. Not sure why I didn't think to put one there before, but there is now. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:52, March 30, 2018 (UTC)
Missing {{imagecat}}.1358 (Talk) 01:45, March 24, 2018 (UTC)- Imagecat now added. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:17, March 27, 2018 (UTC)
You have some infobox-exclusive information; I can't find any information about his weight and length in the body, for one.- Added both to the personality and traits section. As far as I can tell, everything else there can be found elsewhere in the article. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:59, April 4, 2018 (UTC)
Would it be possible to do some further subdivision within the Biopgrahy sections? For instance, if you look at L'ulo L'ampar, a recently passed FA, you'll see it has three "main" biography subsections: "Empire's end", "Black Squadron", and "Legacy". How you decide to execute the subdivision is up to you, but I think it would be good for navigation purposes if you split the current biography subsections into "main biography subsections".1358 (Talk) 19:58, March 30, 2018 (UTC)- Good idea. I felt the best way for it was to leave the Early life section on its own and divide everything else based on the academies that he attended. It's not quite an even split, given how much less time is spent on the Junior Academy of Applied Sciences, but I think it makes the most sense logically as a way of splitting it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:12, April 5, 2018 (UTC)
- I have yet to read the prose, but what exactly is the significance of the "future" in heading 1.4? Everything happened a long time ago, so saying "future" is a bit wrong. 1358 (Talk) 20:25, April 5, 2018 (UTC)
- Well, "future" as in reference to his own future activities following his escape from the academy on Arkanis. Still, I can see how that would be confusing, yeah. I changed it to "Arkanis Academy and Garel." ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:58, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
- I have yet to read the prose, but what exactly is the significance of the "future" in heading 1.4? Everything happened a long time ago, so saying "future" is a bit wrong. 1358 (Talk) 20:25, April 5, 2018 (UTC)
- Good idea. I felt the best way for it was to leave the Early life section on its own and divide everything else based on the academies that he attended. It's not quite an even split, given how much less time is spent on the Junior Academy of Applied Sciences, but I think it makes the most sense logically as a way of splitting it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:12, April 5, 2018 (UTC)
Reference 12 is throwing a citation error.- Which will happen if you foolishly name the reference, but don't actually include the reference within it. Whoopsie. Fixed. Thanks. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:58, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
Reference 18 should utilize the appropriate citation template (like you do in the Sources section). Also make sure the formatting of the reference/Sources entry is correct. {{Topps}} has more parameters, including sformat and link, that you should be using.1358 (Talk) 20:25, April 5, 2018 (UTC)- Done on Reference 18. As for those extra parameters, though, I don't even understand exactly what they're for. I checked a random sampling of a good half a dozen or so other pages that template is transcluded on, such as Chewbacca/Legends, and none of them use those parameters, both of which are listed in the template's usage description as "optional." Oh, I think you may have missed my response to your objection about the start of the Bts section. If you're still considering that no one, no worries, but you hadn't struck the objection. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:58, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
- I was so kind as to format one of the instances correctly in this edit. The parameters are optional in the sense that the template doesn't throw an error if they're not provided, but they should be used when appropriate, nonetheless, as is the case here. Seeing as it's possible to provide a direct link to the card in the citation template itself, like I've done, the "see this image" text in reference 18 should no longer be necessary. 1358 (Talk) 21:42, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
- Ah, okay, so that's how it works. Alright, that's all taken care of. And thanks for showing me that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:47, April 12, 2018 (UTC)
- I was so kind as to format one of the instances correctly in this edit. The parameters are optional in the sense that the template doesn't throw an error if they're not provided, but they should be used when appropriate, nonetheless, as is the case here. Seeing as it's possible to provide a direct link to the card in the citation template itself, like I've done, the "see this image" text in reference 18 should no longer be necessary. 1358 (Talk) 21:42, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
- Done on Reference 18. As for those extra parameters, though, I don't even understand exactly what they're for. I checked a random sampling of a good half a dozen or so other pages that template is transcluded on, such as Chewbacca/Legends, and none of them use those parameters, both of which are listed in the template's usage description as "optional." Oh, I think you may have missed my response to your objection about the start of the Bts section. If you're still considering that no one, no worries, but you hadn't struck the objection. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:58, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
You're missing some sw.com entries in your Sources section. For instance, Leonis is featured in the episode gallery for Breaking Ranks but you only list the trivia gallery right now. In this case, you can simply list the episode guide as a whole instead of the individual sub-features of the guide. Please make sure to check this for other applicable material as well.1358 (Talk) 21:42, April 8, 2018 (UTC)- That's done, and as per your suggestion, I did also find some other entries to add. I also rearranged some entries which I noticed were out of order by date. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:25, April 18, 2018 (UTC)
Ezra Bridger in the Databank (backup link) mentions him in the biography gallery so make sure to check that in case there's any new information before adding it to the list. 1358 (Talk) 19:33, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
- No new information to add to the article (just the usual recap stuff), but that did clue me in to two more to add which I wasn't able to find using the search on starwars.com. Now I know not to rely just on that. Anyway, Zare Leonis is added (actually, Lewisr added it), as well as the other two I found. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:34, April 21, 2018 (UTC)
- That's done, and as per your suggestion, I did also find some other entries to add. I also rearranged some entries which I noticed were out of order by date. ProfessorTofty (talk) 21:25, April 18, 2018 (UTC)
- Does Star Wars Rebels: The Visual Guide explicitly date his birth to 19 BBY and 3258 LY? The current infobox reference feels a bit extraneous—if SWR:VG places his birth in 19 BBY, there's no need for further elaboration in that reference.
- Mind if we hold on this just a bit longer? I've been trying to get a hold of a copy of this book to double-check that again, but I hit a bit of a snag and won't have it until Saturday evening or Sunday. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, May 4, 2018 (UTC)
- So, yeah, I checked, and no, it does not. As I suspected, this reference guide was released before they had started using "BBY" or "ABY" in canon material. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:37, May 7, 2018 (UTC)
- Mind if we hold on this just a bit longer? I've been trying to get a hold of a copy of this book to double-check that again, but I hit a bit of a snag and won't have it until Saturday evening or Sunday. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, May 4, 2018 (UTC)
Expanding on this, "19 BBY" is currently infobox-exclusive as you only use the LY date in the body.- Alright, 19 BBY is now also in the body. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, May 4, 2018 (UTC)
I feel like it would be helpful for the reader to establish a timeline for his birth and/or his enrollment in the academy in the first intro paragraph.- How's that now? I added information about his birth, then in the next paragraph I explain about the Junior Academy before transitioning back into the Imperial Academy. ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, May 4, 2018 (UTC)
- "The Empire claimed that Dhara ran away, but Leonis did not believe their claims." This sentence feels a bit disconnected from the rest and since you already establish his reason for joining the academy (her disappearance), I recommend you remove it. Instead, I'd like to see some material from subheading 1.2 featured in the intro as well. Right now you jump straight to his academy life.
- Good idea. Removed that bit and added in info about those early activities. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:14, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
- OK, I feel the intro is now a bit too long for the article; you didn't need to add an entire paragraph. When I said "timeline" in the objection above, I was referring to a year. There's no need to go into depth about his parents and his early life and the Junior academy thingy feels way too detailed. You also talk about his sister's disappearance twice. You can integrate everything about his pre-Imperial Academy life into the first paragraph. If I may suggest: after the first intro sentence, go with something roughly like this: "Born in 19 BBY, Leonis joined the Junior academy where he led the school's grav-ball team to a winning season. During his time at the school, however, he learned of his sister's disappearance from the Imperial Academy. Determined to find out what happened to his sister, Leonis joined the Imperial Academy." If we know an exact year or age for when he joined the Imperial Academy, that could be added here. If the first paragraph feels small compared to the others, you can include some more detail about the Junior academy life. 1358 (Talk) 21:10, May 8, 2018 (UTC)
- Good idea. Removed that bit and added in info about those early activities. ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:14, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
"but a last meal offered to him by Chiron offered a chance to escape." The double "offered" feels a bit repetitive here.1358 (Talk) 18:53, April 23, 2018 (UTC)- Reworded as "provided him with." ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:14, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
AV
I'd like to see an article created for this Topps Rebels set, and the card listed in the sources section.- AV-6R7Crew Pit 23:07, March 8, 2018 (UTC)- You sure we should? I'd excluded the idea under the Merchandise section of Wookieepedia:Notability policy based on the criterion for general merchandise that "has no canonical value with respect to the franchise's in-universe continuities." There's a lot of Star Wars trading cards out there and I don't think this one provides anything that would really merit its own article. Thoughts? ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:43, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- I know we cite this set on Maketh Tua, and I believe it was the first source to establish her homeworld as Lothal. Even if it's not being cited in this article directly, we have articles for other sets. Besides, this set still provides IU info. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 04:29, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Alright, I created the page for the set. Is there a standard format for citing this? I'm not really too familiar with these trading cards. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:57, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Never mind - located a standard citation format and added it as a source. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:17, March 27, 2018 (UTC)
- Alright, I created the page for the set. Is there a standard format for citing this? I'm not really too familiar with these trading cards. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:57, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- I know we cite this set on Maketh Tua, and I believe it was the first source to establish her homeworld as Lothal. Even if it's not being cited in this article directly, we have articles for other sets. Besides, this set still provides IU info. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 04:29, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- You sure we should? I'd excluded the idea under the Merchandise section of Wookieepedia:Notability policy based on the criterion for general merchandise that "has no canonical value with respect to the franchise's in-universe continuities." There's a lot of Star Wars trading cards out there and I don't think this one provides anything that would really merit its own article. Thoughts? ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:43, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
Dawn of Rebellion reveals what the Leonis family was up to after the series: "The increased crackdown on suspected resistance activity birthed a more formal resistance on Garel. Members of the Leonis, Spanjaf, and Statura families have helped to organize and lead the new Garel City cell and continue the resistance." Note that this is said to take place after Pheonix Squadron is driven from Garel by the Empire in "Legacy".- AV-6R7Crew Pit 16:23, March 22, 2018 (UTC)- Really! This is exactly the sort of information I was hoping they would release. Unfortunately, this is another type of product I don't really follow at all. Is that all it has to say regarding them? ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:57, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- All that I know of; that's from its blurb on Garel. I don't actually own the book, but a buddy of mine does. I can ask if there's any more info. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 17:18, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Zare has a blurb; I'll write it up here later today. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 20:11, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- "An Imperial cadet and a resistance sympathizer, Zare Leonis came into contact with Phoenix Cell while a student at the Academy for Young Imperials on Lothal. He had enrolled at the academy to try and find his sister Dhara., who had disappeared from the same school previously. Following leads, Leonis feigned Force-sensitivy and accepted a transfer to Arkanis Academy. Throughout his search, he has remained willing to work against the Empire and aid Phoenix Cell. He has readily accepted the personal risks accosiated with working against the Imperial Academy system from within it." Jai Kell's blurb also menitons him: "Jai becames disenchanted with the Galactic Empire after discussions with fellow students Dev Morgan (actually Ezra Bridger, who was undercover at the academy) and Zare Leonis." That should be everything. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 22:52, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Hmm, that doesn't really add anything not already in the article, but I've added the stuff about the family involvement in the Garel rebellion at the end of the biography section. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:17, March 27, 2018 (UTC)
- "An Imperial cadet and a resistance sympathizer, Zare Leonis came into contact with Phoenix Cell while a student at the Academy for Young Imperials on Lothal. He had enrolled at the academy to try and find his sister Dhara., who had disappeared from the same school previously. Following leads, Leonis feigned Force-sensitivy and accepted a transfer to Arkanis Academy. Throughout his search, he has remained willing to work against the Empire and aid Phoenix Cell. He has readily accepted the personal risks accosiated with working against the Imperial Academy system from within it." Jai Kell's blurb also menitons him: "Jai becames disenchanted with the Galactic Empire after discussions with fellow students Dev Morgan (actually Ezra Bridger, who was undercover at the academy) and Zare Leonis." That should be everything. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 22:52, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Zare has a blurb; I'll write it up here later today. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 20:11, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- All that I know of; that's from its blurb on Garel. I don't actually own the book, but a buddy of mine does. I can ask if there's any more info. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 17:18, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
- Really! This is exactly the sort of information I was hoping they would release. Unfortunately, this is another type of product I don't really follow at all. Is that all it has to say regarding them? ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:57, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
Could we get articles for the Garel City cell and the Statura family? The former will need to be added to the infobox, and U.O. Statura's invlolvement cannot be sourced to Dawn of Rebellion.- AV-6R7Crew Pit 01:47, March 27, 2018 (UTC)- Garel City cell was created earlier today. I just created and linked Statura family. Also took care of the bit about U.O. Statura by just removing it - since we don't have anything saying they worked directly with him, I figured it couldn't hurt to just not mention him directly. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:59, April 4, 2018 (UTC)
Tommy
Some of the BTS is unsourced.- Sourced now. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:00, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
Could we get some release dates into the BTS? Years should be fine.—Tommy-Macaroni
(TAKE A SEAT) 21:18, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
- Taken care of as part of the above objection. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:00, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
Comments
Closure
With regrets, I'm asking that this be closed at this time. I've been putting off responding to the objections for too long and I've just gotten too busy to give it the proper attention it deserves. I'll keep Voorpee for now, since theoretically there's very little left to do on that, but I just don't feel it would be right to keep this one open. Perhaps sometime in the future, but for now, please close it. And thanks to those who did take the time to review it - it's become a better article for it, and that's perhaps the most important thing. ProfessorTofty (talk) 02:36, May 22, 2018 (UTC)