- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Shadows of the Empire (soundtrack)
(7 Inq/6 Users/13 Total)
Support
- My... first... (finished) FA attempt. -- Ozzel 03:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Almost too far outside the box...but the Inqs won't complain. Jediknight19bby (Jedi High Council Chambers!) 18:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Huh? You know in advance what every inq is going to say? That is extraordinary. AdmirableAckbar 23:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Nice. Joker1138(Mandalore)
02:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC) 
Superlative. We need to see more of this stuff. Thefourdotelipsis 06:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)- Chack Jadson Talk 22:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Adamwankenobi 05:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- Lord Hydronium 06:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Greyman(Paratus) 02:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)- Cull Tremayne 18:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Enjoyable writing, Oz. --Eyrezer 12:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
- Green Tentacle (Talk) 17:42, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- We really do need more FA noms to be as far out of the box as this one is. Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 22:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Jaina Solo(Talk) 21:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- Outside the box? Hell, BURN the box! -- Darth Culator (Talk) 01:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Oppose
- From the desk of Atarumaster88
Second paragraph of "Origin": First sentence reads a bit awkwardly. Reword please.- More context on "The Southern Underground" please.
Is it just me, or is "bombastic use" a bit POVish?More context on "Into the Sewers" A reader clicking this link may not be familiar with SoTE, so who the heroes are should be expounded upon.Reference the orchestra credits please. Referencing everyone individually shouldn't be necessary, but it should list where the information came from. Was it from the CD packaging?Adjust categorization as it does not appear to be a spoken article."Tracks" section- Williams "Main Theme" should either be italicized or de-capitalized. I didn't adjust it because I was unsure of which was appropriate. Ditto with all the other tracks, but I don't think the headers need adjusted.I'm a bit confused- CD artwork pic at the bottom says the artwork was by Struzan while the infobox states it was McQuarrie. Please clarify or just explain. ;-)Reference the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of release. As you've already set precedent by refing the liner notes, please carry it all the way through if that is where the information is from.- I'll let the 2nd paragraph slide, but does the video game manual give credit to this particular album? If so, it should be referenced. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 04:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. -- Ozzel 03:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, Ataru, just to clarify: myself and others seem to disagree about your intentions here. Am I wrong in assuming that you will settle for nothing less than a little number at the end of that sentence (or, perhaps, clarified rules for ref'ing OOU info)? -- Ozzel 02:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hm, yes...some others, but not all. Like I explained, from where I stand all I feel that Ataru was trying to get at was this: is the musical score in the game credited to be this soundtrack? Yes, we've heard it be said that "All you have to do is listen, and you'll know it's the same." Well, that's fine, but for these types of situations if it is the same soundtrack, attribution should be shown -- we can't take anyones word in the place of actual fact. Like I said on IRC, I understand where Ataru is coming from, but I also understand where you, Ozzel, are coming from. I don't think this is just about settling "for nothing less than a little number at the end of that sentence". However, Ataru's reply to Ozzel's above statement should clear up this ongoing debate so we can queue this FAN! :D Hopefully Ozzel's hardwork here will become our template for such future articles ;) Greyman(Paratus) 02:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry Grey, I worded that funny. I meant myself disagreed with others, not myself and others disagreed with Ataru (although that is also true). My bad. ;-) -- Ozzel 06:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Heh, no worries whatsoever :) Like I said, I hope this thing can be resolved soon so we can queue another FA :) Greyman(Paratus) 13:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- To clarify, I would like to see a reference that will clarify whether the soundtrack is credited in the game manual or just "statement of the obvious." In an age where advertisers often make similar tracks to popular songs to gain recognition in a commerical, I think it's important to know if we're talking about the credited soundtrack or a possibly altered version, etc. I would also resolve the issue if new OOU sourcing rules were implemented, but there is clear precedent that the current rules apply and work just fine. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 04:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
- To clarify, I would like to see a reference that will clarify whether the soundtrack is credited in the game manual or just "statement of the obvious." In an age where advertisers often make similar tracks to popular songs to gain recognition in a commerical, I think it's important to know if we're talking about the credited soundtrack or a possibly altered version, etc. I would also resolve the issue if new OOU sourcing rules were implemented, but there is clear precedent that the current rules apply and work just fine. Atarumaster88
- Heh, no worries whatsoever :) Like I said, I hope this thing can be resolved soon so we can queue another FA :) Greyman(Paratus) 13:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry Grey, I worded that funny. I meant myself disagreed with others, not myself and others disagreed with Ataru (although that is also true). My bad. ;-) -- Ozzel 06:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hm, yes...some others, but not all. Like I explained, from where I stand all I feel that Ataru was trying to get at was this: is the musical score in the game credited to be this soundtrack? Yes, we've heard it be said that "All you have to do is listen, and you'll know it's the same." Well, that's fine, but for these types of situations if it is the same soundtrack, attribution should be shown -- we can't take anyones word in the place of actual fact. Like I said on IRC, I understand where Ataru is coming from, but I also understand where you, Ozzel, are coming from. I don't think this is just about settling "for nothing less than a little number at the end of that sentence". However, Ataru's reply to Ozzel's above statement should clear up this ongoing debate so we can queue this FAN! :D Hopefully Ozzel's hardwork here will become our template for such future articles ;) Greyman(Paratus) 02:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, Ataru, just to clarify: myself and others seem to disagree about your intentions here. Am I wrong in assuming that you will settle for nothing less than a little number at the end of that sentence (or, perhaps, clarified rules for ref'ing OOU info)? -- Ozzel 02:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. -- Ozzel 03:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'll let the 2nd paragraph slide, but does the video game manual give credit to this particular album? If so, it should be referenced. Atarumaster88
Reference 2nd paragraph of "Xizor's Theme" please.- Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 18:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- I think I've addressed everything except for expanding the story info on those two tracks (which are the shortest two after all, but I'll still try to add a little) and sourcing irrefutable, obvious facts. As you say, this is setting a precedent, so I think it's important not to go overboard. I don't think we should necessarily apply the same exact standards for sourcing OOU as with IU. For example, by saying the music appears in the SOTE video game, there is no need for a source. If I said it's used in a video game, or just somewhere else in general, then yes, sourcing with the video game would be appropriate. But the statement as it is already sources itself. Also, saying what is in the liner notes: that's just a fact. The liner notes don't say what's in the liner notes; they are the liner notes. Look, I'm all for being thorough, but we gotta draw the line somewhere, as the good captain says... well, you know. -- Ozzel 08:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
You may have a point, but I'm still going to add the end of the first paragraph in The Destruction of Xizor's Palace to the sourcing list. :P Green Tentacle (Talk) 17:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC)- Addressed GT's, and fixed all of Ataru's that I feel are worth fixing. The rest I'll have to leave up to the Inqs. -- Ozzel 03:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- I've added a reference for the "Xizor's Theme" one. It's not exactly hard for people to Google it to check, but if we can provide a link we might as well.
And I just noticed that Main Theme from Star Wars and Leia's Nightmare needs a source too.Green Tentacle (Talk) 09:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)- But it's not information from a source, it's simply stating the obvious. -- Ozzel 22:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- No, it's stating your interpretation of what the music represents. Unless you have a source that that was what the composer intended, you shouldn't say it. Green Tentacle (Talk) 09:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, it's kinda in the liner notes. Ref'd. :-) -- Ozzel 17:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- No, it's stating your interpretation of what the music represents. Unless you have a source that that was what the composer intended, you shouldn't say it. Green Tentacle (Talk) 09:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- But it's not information from a source, it's simply stating the obvious. -- Ozzel 22:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- I've added a reference for the "Xizor's Theme" one. It's not exactly hard for people to Google it to check, but if we can provide a link we might as well.
- Addressed GT's, and fixed all of Ataru's that I feel are worth fixing. The rest I'll have to leave up to the Inqs. -- Ozzel 03:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- I think I've addressed everything except for expanding the story info on those two tracks (which are the shortest two after all, but I'll still try to add a little) and sourcing irrefutable, obvious facts. As you say, this is setting a precedent, so I think it's important not to go overboard. I don't think we should necessarily apply the same exact standards for sourcing OOU as with IU. For example, by saying the music appears in the SOTE video game, there is no need for a source. If I said it's used in a video game, or just somewhere else in general, then yes, sourcing with the video game would be appropriate. But the statement as it is already sources itself. Also, saying what is in the liner notes: that's just a fact. The liner notes don't say what's in the liner notes; they are the liner notes. Look, I'm all for being thorough, but we gotta draw the line somewhere, as the good captain says... well, you know. -- Ozzel 08:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
- Just a couple of objections on this
I think I get where Ozzel's coming from on the liner notes, but the three sentences before that need to be sourced, even if that doesn't, in my opinion..Make that just the first sentence.
- Suggestion: For expansion on The Southern Underground, a little more information on who Spero is would be nice.
Those are my only problems with this nom.Intriguing type of article, Ozzel ;). Hobbes15(Tiger Headquarters) 03:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)- Addressed. -- Ozzel 03:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Comments
- Definitely open for suggestions here. Considering we don't have many other real world FAs to compare it to, I tried to use some album FAs at Wikipedia as models. -- Ozzel 03:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Great to see this here. A truly one-of-a-kind article :) ...Just a couple of requests. One, can it include a brief MP3 or OGG clip from one of the songs? "Xizor's Theme" would seem to be the best choice. (I'd be happy to rip and edit just such a clip, though I can only encode MP3s.) Two, the Misconceptions section could use clarification/expansion; it doesn't clearly indicate, in some cases, whether these "rumors" are true or not. The last two bullets in particular puzzle me; if neither is true, we need to cite how we know that, and if they may be true/maybe not, the header for that section shouldn't be Misconceptions. Gonk (Gonk!) 20:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- 1) I'd like to include sound clips too; in fact, I already prepared some a while back. However, I very much dislike the template we currently use for sounds. If we could maybe bring in the one from Wikipedia, I'd be happy to put them in. 2) I figured this section might give me trouble, but I'd hate to lose it. It's just hard to prove something is not true without someone flat out denying it. I think most of the things I put are okay, because they are already contradicted by facts earlier in the article (from valid sources). The refs I provided for those were just to show that they are in fact real rumors that are out there. (And, I have to disagree with Jorrel: I think Wikipedia is a perfectly valid source when being used as a source for misinformation.) Still, I'm open to suggestions on how to improve this. -- Ozzel 20:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- I made improvised a template and added 3 sound clips. -- Ozzel 07:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- Great to see this here. A truly one-of-a-kind article :) ...Just a couple of requests. One, can it include a brief MP3 or OGG clip from one of the songs? "Xizor's Theme" would seem to be the best choice. (I'd be happy to rip and edit just such a clip, though I can only encode MP3s.) Two, the Misconceptions section could use clarification/expansion; it doesn't clearly indicate, in some cases, whether these "rumors" are true or not. The last two bullets in particular puzzle me; if neither is true, we need to cite how we know that, and if they may be true/maybe not, the header for that section shouldn't be Misconceptions. Gonk (Gonk!) 20:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- I'm undecided on this, but perhaps the Dha Werda Verda section should be moved to later in the article, but that's not really an objection. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 18:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps the last two paragraphs of "Reception" could be changed to "Criticism" and given their own section. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 18:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- I somewhat give the Misconceptions section an askance look. It just feels off, both in formatting and content, but it's not in the rules. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 18:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- This is a new type of FA nom, so I want it to be really good, and it's also precedent, which is another reason to insist on high quality stuff. Overall impressive and the objections I have are mostly minor. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 18:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)