Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Saul Karath (second nomination)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Saul Karath

  • Nominated by: Jedi Kasra (comlink) 05:42, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: The "legend in the Republic fleet" returns.

(0 Inqs/5 Users/5 Total)

Support

  1. After sofixit-ing a few typos, hope you don't mind. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 17:07, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Yay removal of FAN limit. Good work with the updates. NAYAYEN:TALK 16:21, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
  3. Great Job! --DarthRageLeave a message after the beep 00:47, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
  4. Nice. A Star Wars version of Buzz Lightyear.--Lord David 03:34, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
  5. I like it. Well done.--ID-21 Dolphin 18:21, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Object

Cylka
  • The last paragraph of the intro needs to be pared down. There is simply too much detail written there.
  • You need to mention that the war waged by Exar Kun, including the Mandalorians, was part of the Great Sith War.
  • At one point, when the Reciprocity was in an engagement with enemies, Karath recognized the Republic pilot Carth Onasi's skills. - Was Onasi a pilot on Reciprocity or another ship?
  • You need to somehow work into the article that the Mandalorian Wars were separate from the Great Sith War. Otherwise, all readers see is that the Mandalorians are attacking, but don't see a difference in the two conflicts.
  • As he had predicted, the attack on Vanquo - this needs a bit more context to it.
  • You need to talk mention that the Courageous was already in space with part of the fleet, otherwise the reader is confused about the attack on Serroco.
  • Karath filed a report with the Admiral of the Fleet concerning the disposition of his forces, which were under pursuit on the hyperspace lanes from Serroco to the banking world Telerath. - I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here.
  • Shortly after escaping the Legacy's destruction, Karath complimented Onasi on the quick escape from the Mandalorians. After Morvis managed to reach communications with Arkania Command, Karath told Carrick that while he could not turn the Padawan in to the custody of his former Jedi Master Lucien Draay, who ordered the Padawan Massacre, Karath would get another chance to do so. - This whole part makes very little sense. Furthermore, why did they make contact with Arkania and not some other place?
  • The second paragraph of the Adasca affair needs to be pared down, specifically in regards to Jareal and Carrick.
  • The third and fourth paragraphs of the Adasca Affair need to be pared down as well. There is a lot of information there that needs more context, so it would be better to remove it rather than add additional weight. Please look over the changes in Malak's article to get an idea of what I am looking for.
  • In the Covenant Affair section there are some sections that have too much information and others that don't have enough context.
  • I'm going to stop my review for now and ask you to look over the article in regards to context in the same way as Malak. The most important question to ask yourself is if the information is relevant to Karath. If it isn't, it needs to go. Cylka-talk- 08:03, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'll be having internet connection issues for the next week or so. I'll let you know once they are taken care of. Cylka-talk- 04:34, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
Punching
  • The bit about Zayne in the intro's first paragraph seems like a bit of a tangent, as he isn't mentioned anywhere else in the intro. Zayne played a pretty big role in Karath's life during that year; maybe he warrants a bit more of a role in the intro? I'd recommend replacing "Shortly after the Mandalorians razed Serroco's surface, Karath participated in the Adasca Affair," with something like "When the Mandalorians did raze Serocco's surface, Karath took Carrick into custody, and the two participated in the Adasca Affair..." Aaaand maybe extend the covenant sentence to mention that Saul helped Carrick take down the Crucible? Whaddya think?
  • Is there a quote from KOTOR 49 about Saul's father that could be used for "Early life and career"?
  • "After having a vision through the Force of the Mandalorians destroying Serroco's surface, Carrick told his partner and the head of the Little Bivoli, Marn Hierogryph, that he needed to warn Admiral Karath." It's really not relevant to Karath that Carrick spoke to Gryph. The bit about Carrick and Onasi on the Deadweight is getting into extraneous territory, too. In order to keep the focus on Karath, can you reword it to indicate that he returned to the Courageous but was followed by Carrick, who had experienced a vision of Serocco's destruction and had convinced Onasi to grant him an audience with the Admiral? It's short and sweet, it keeps the focus on Karath, and it says all that needs to be said.
  • The bit about the report to the Admiral to the Fleet has a bit too much in it. This is similar to a lot of my objections to Malak, where I wanted recounts of conversations slimmed down to remain salient without summarizing every line spoken --- in this case, everything that Karath included in the report doesn't have to be noted. "Also, Karath noted Onasi's and Morvis' performances during the battle in the report." stands out as extraneous and could probably be jettisoned entirely, and the bit about his hope to make it to Myrkr or the Ryyk Nebula would probably fit better before the mention of his report, as a general note on where he hoped to go next. Think of it like "Joe wanted to go to the store", which is better than "Joe told Fred that he wanted to go to the store."
  • I'll be back soon! Menkooroo 02:12, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • The Adasca Affair: Take a look at the first two sentences and ask yourself if they're necessary to include. This is a clutch example of my "Don't recount every line of every conversation" crusade. Actually, the fact that he wanted to turn Zayne over to Lucien is probably noteworthy, but there are probably better ways to state that those were his intentions without simply saying "He told Carrick that..." This is another example of "Joe wanted to go to the store."
  • Why are they going to Arkania and getting in contact with Arkanian command? Is it the closest available place that could help them? Also, this seems to be the first time Arkania is mentioned. Link it, baby!
    • Please try it; afaik, it's never explained why they went to Arkania as opposed to another system.—Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:19, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
  • Can you give context on the exogorths the first time they're mentioned? This could help eliminate the final paragraph's unnecessary play-by-play recounting of a line spoken by Karath. Sorry again to keep beating that point with a hammer, but imagine nominating a major character from a novel --- would you recount every line spoken by them? That would give the article a lot of dead weight. A quick note on how Karath had thought the giant slugs were myths might be in order, but going into detail of everything he told Carth and co. is way too extraneous.
  • The next paragraph is riddled with "Karath stated, Karath asked, Karath inquired, Karath told" --- there are always better ways to word things than outright stating lines that are spoken. Like Cylka, I'm going to stop the review here and ask you to re-read the entire article with a critical eye for play-by-play, recounts of lines and conversations, and extraneous information. Keep in mind Joe going to the store too --- things like "Karath attempted to inquire as to what Adasca meant." would come off as far less pbl'ish if they were trimmed down to something like "Karath was confused." It will take some work, but I know that you're creative and dedicated enough to do it. And you can always facebook me if you need any tips. Menkooroo 02:40, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, thanks, let me know if more is required!—Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:19, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
  • The Covenant affair: Xamar asked Karath about Carrick's state of mind, and Karath replied that the Padawan acted in what he considered typical for a Jedi, in that Carrick was indistinct, yet sure that he was correct in his beliefs. --- Keeping my above objections in mind... is this at all necessary?
  • Saying that Jarael is an Arkanian isn't technically correct, is it?
  • In Capturing Dace Golliard: The Admiral gave the former Padawan credit for his nerve, but Carrick interjected, could be jettisoned, I think, with "citing the Republic's coverups" going right after "Osadia." Say no to play-by-play recounts of conversations! For real. Menkooroo 14:01, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
  • Timeline 8: The Jedi Civil War isn't included in the appearances section, so I'm assuming it doesn't mention Karath --- as such, can "Karath was not among the Republic forces who followed Revan and Malak into the Unknown Regions." be sourced to Timeline 8 like it currently is?
  • Should "Karath brought the Interdictor-class cruiser Leviathan and several other ships with him into the Sith's service" maybe go before the stuff about the docking codes? That is, if he gave Revan the codes after defecting, wouldn't it be chronologically correct to first mention that he brought the Leviathan over?
  • Can you reword "Malak told Karath that while the penalty for failure was death, the failure was Nord's, not Karath's" to read less like a recount of the conversation and more like a recount of the events? That is, something like "Malak spared Karath's life because he believed the failure had been Nord's, not Karath's" or something?
  • "After being taken into custody, Karath had..." makes it sound like Karath was taken into custody.
  • Almost done! Menkooroo 05:45, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
  • "The Human male Saul Karath" at the beginning of p&t comes off as really weird. It seems like an attempt to clarify which Saul Karath you're talking about. As the infobox, intro, and bio already state Human male, is it necessary here?
  • How about an image of Saul himself in p & t? There are a few available already on the wook, such as nyah nyah and nyah. Images of the article's subject are always the best choice, and the p & t doesn't even mention anything about Telos IV's recovery.
  • In the bts: "The opening quote to this article..." isn't really sitting right with me. I'm not sure if it's violating Avoid self-references or not, but I feel like it could be worded to talk about the quote without mentioning the article. Am I crazy?
  • Finished! Good work. Menkooroo 03:35, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
    • A reminder to the nominator that this nomination is technically eligible for removal at this point for idle objections more than three weeks old. I would suggest getting on this immediately if you wish the nomination to continue. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:37, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
Cav
  • Karath vowed to deal with Carrick personally, provided that he survived the battle. - If who survived the battle? Karath or Carrick? I think you mean Karath since Carrick has supposedly left, but the wording makes it uncertain. Please revise.
  • Shortly after escaping the destruction of the Courageous, Karath informed Carrick that he would eventually receive another chance to turn the Padawan in to the custody of his former Jedi Master Lucien Draay after Morvis managed to reach communications with Arkania Command. - Choppy sentence, please consider revising/ rewriting.
  • Some context on Arkania Command is needed.
  • The first two paragraphs of "The Adasca Affair" seem to skirt into play-by-play territory at some points. I would consider revising to tighten up the prose.
  • Rohlan Dyre, a Mandalorian, suddenly begins helping the Republic officials with no explanation. Context is needed.
  • Xamar is mentioned as joining the starfighter assault, but is then back on the Swiftsure to stow away on the Deadweight. Did he return to the ship, or did he never leave in the first place?
  • Karath's entry in the Knights of the Old Republic Handbook mistakenly refers to him as a "Correllian". It took me a minute to figure out that this was a simple misspelling rather than an actual error. I think it should be clarified a little more to point out it is a simple spelling error. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 21:12, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

  • Here's the first time I nommed Karath for the FAs. Changes have been made since then. I doubt that there'll be any new sources affecting his article, but you never know. If there are, hey, I'm not going anywhere.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 05:42, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Vote to remove nomination (Inq only)

  1. Inqvote Starting removal vote per multiple idle, unaddressed objections more than three weeks old. Nominator was alerted on his talk page several days ago, and a notice was again left on the nomination page yesterday (see above) with no response. Nominator has not edited the article in almost a full month. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:45, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 00:47, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Grunny (talk) 04:13, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote 1358 (Talk) 13:44, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:32, January 27, 2011 (UTC)