- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Orielle Kitai
- Nominated by: —Axinal Convocation Chamber 22:46, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: Not too lengthy, and the process for Battle of Gazzari has been slow, so I think I can handle this in addition.
(4 Inqs/2 Users/6 Total)
Support
Sith treachery knows no bounds.—Tommy 9281 Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 01:47 UTC- Beautifully written. Keep up the good work. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:45, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- 1358 (Talk) 15:45, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Imperators II(Talk) 16:44, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Excellent work, Axinal. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:47, March 30, 2011 (UTC)- MasterFred(Whatever) 18:51, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
Object
Because this Sith @#$% is all I know...
"Venn attempted to use the vessel to escape Kesh, but was killed when the ship's proton torpedoes detonated as a result of a booby-trap set by Marrian. Kitai and Marrian lived the remainder of their lives in secrecy in the Takara Mountains." Please add a smidge of context here to bridge the jump from Venn's death to their self-imposed mountain exile.You have a million and one emdashes. Please eliminate most of them.- Heh, looking it over again, I do have quite a few. Most of them work just as well as commas, so a pretty easy fix. Still a few left, but most are gone.
- Not bad.—Tommy 9281 Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 01:18 UTC
- Thanks for the copy-edit and the review, Tommy!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 01:34, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Jujiggum
I think it's enough to mention that she bragged about her knowledge of the aqueducts in the P&T; it's not really necessary in the bio.- Removed
"Kitai frequently visited Jelph of Marisota, a man she had discovered after following a Keshiri florist, whom she sensed was lying to her when she questioned him on the origin of his plants, to Jelph's farm." Grammar here; something about it just doesn't read right.- Yeah, there used to be a couple of emdashes there. I guess I didn't really look the sentence over after I removed them. Rewrote the sentence.
The bio is definitely large enough to be subsectioned. Maybe "Early life", "Slavery", and "Leaving the Tribe" subsections would be good.- I suspected as much. How's that?
- I moved the Leaving the Tribe section up one paragraph, because it's at the end of that paragraph that she actually decides to leave the planet. The only other thing I'm looking for here is a couple of quotes for each of the new sections. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:23, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Added—Axinal Convocation Chamber 14:38, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- I moved the Leaving the Tribe section up one paragraph, because it's at the end of that paragraph that she actually decides to leave the planet. The only other thing I'm looking for here is a couple of quotes for each of the new sections. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:23, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- I suspected as much. How's that?
Although we do typically require reference to the last name of an individual after the first mention, I would suggest calling her Orielle throughout. We've specifically allowed this in the past when an article centers heavily on a couple individuals with the same last name, and when it could very easily become confusing regarding to whom you're referring. There were a couple instances of "Kitai" where I wasn't sure whether you meant Ori or Candra right away, sso I think it would be fine to just refer to them as Orielle and Candra throughout.- I originally wrote The zoo the way you're suggesting; however, per the request of CC7567, I changed "Orielle" to "Kitai" throughout. It doesn't matter to me which way the article is written, I'm just concerned that if I change it, someone's going to ask me to change it back. What do you think?
- I'd definitely go with Orielle and Candra, and here's why: in a shorter article such as the zoo, it's much easier to distinguish between the two Kitais, or to otherwise word the article so that it isn't confusing to the reader. However, in a longer article such as this one, there were a few instances where I did a double-take and had to think for a second before I realized to which Kitai you were referring; and I've even read the material. To a reader who's never read the LTotS series, it would likely be even more confusing. So while we do always do our best to stick to last names, sometimes it's necessary to use first names simply to avoid confusion (we have intentionally done so in status articles before). If you want, you can try to reword some places where this becomes confusing in an attempt to avoid the issue, but that might mess up the flow of the prose. Up to you which one to try :P Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:23, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- All right, that makes sense. I just copied it into Word and did a search and replace. It actually kind of makes sense, since after becoming a slave her name technically wasn't even Kitai anymore. Thanks for your help!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 14:38, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- I'd definitely go with Orielle and Candra, and here's why: in a shorter article such as the zoo, it's much easier to distinguish between the two Kitais, or to otherwise word the article so that it isn't confusing to the reader. However, in a longer article such as this one, there were a few instances where I did a double-take and had to think for a second before I realized to which Kitai you were referring; and I've even read the material. To a reader who's never read the LTotS series, it would likely be even more confusing. So while we do always do our best to stick to last names, sometimes it's necessary to use first names simply to avoid confusion (we have intentionally done so in status articles before). If you want, you can try to reword some places where this becomes confusing in an attempt to avoid the issue, but that might mess up the flow of the prose. Up to you which one to try :P Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:23, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- I originally wrote The zoo the way you're suggesting; however, per the request of CC7567, I changed "Orielle" to "Kitai" throughout. It doesn't matter to me which way the article is written, I'm just concerned that if I change it, someone's going to ask me to change it back. What do you think?
"though the thought of slavery still made her sick to her stomach." This is another thing I think belongs more in the P&T. Maybe you can keep something like "although she was disgusted by the thought of slavery." But the more detailed wording should be saved for the P&T.- Fixed.
What's a Shadow in the Jedi Covenant? A bit more context would be useful here.- Added a bit.
Hmm, what would you say to making a small article about her brief duel with Jelph?- Will get right on it.
"Improved working conditions" is the exact phrase from the eBook, no? If so, you should say something more like, …in exchange for what Venn termed "improved working conditions." Or you could use some synonyms and get rid of the need for the quotation marks.- Fixed.
I temporarily redlinked their "new hut" as "Orielle Kitai and Jelph Marrian's home". If you can think of a better article name, definitely feel free to change it.- Sounds good to me. As with the duel, I'll get right on creating it.
In the P&T you suggest that she physically threw up when talking about her slavery with Jelph. Did she really? I don't seem to remember this…(my apologies if my memory is faltering here)- "Already feeling sick, she'd heaved as soon as the door to the vile place was opened. She did it again the second night, after relating the full tale of her tiny but important family's downfall."
I also think that several of the unidentified characters you mention (particularly the Keshiri florist, the zoo's Sith guard, and the Sith who held Kitai captive and were shot by Jelph during the skirmish at his farm) deserve their own articles, and thus deserve linking in this article.- See your objection about the duel with Jelph and their hut. :P
- I created the florist, the guard, the hut, and the duel; however, there were four guards at the farm, so I'm not sure it makes sense to create articles for all four of them and somehow squeeze links into the article (though there were only two that were shot by Jelph, I'm feeling the same way even for these two). Is that all right?—Axinal Convocation Chamber 03:57, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Absolutely; fair enough. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:23, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Great work. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 02:33, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot, Jon!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 03:12, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Imperators II
Since the Jedi Civil War started in 3959 BBY, the "eight weeks later" in the "Leaving the Tribe" section should be linked to this year, don't you think so?- Sure, makes sense to me. Added.
- Otherwise — wow. Imperators II(Talk) 16:09, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, Imperators!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 16:36, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Toprawa
I would recommend leaving at least a redlink for this caretaker character: "Candra's caretaker, an elderly Keshiri"- Redlinked. I'll also create the article.
I feel like the conclusion in the intro gives a better sense of closure to the character than the end of the biography itself does. Can we reiterate this clause at the end of the article in some form? "lived the remainder of their lives in secrecy in the Takara Mountains."Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:32, March 30, 2011 (UTC)- Certainly. It required a small rewrite, but it's added. Thanks for the copy edit, but I should tell you I reverted a small piece of it, as you linked Force vision twice. Thanks for the review!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 18:42, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Oops, sorry about that. Good catch. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:47, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Certainly. It required a small rewrite, but it's added. Thanks for the copy edit, but I should tell you I reverted a small piece of it, as you linked Force vision twice. Thanks for the review!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 18:42, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Comments
Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 21:09, April 5, 2011 (UTC)