- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Morodin
- Nominated by: Cavalier One
(Squadron channel) 16:56, July 16, 2012 (UTC) - Nomination comments: A species!
(4 Inqs/3 Users/7 Total)
Support
- Plagueis327 (talk) 20:15, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Cav does a species? Please do Morodin! :) ~Savage
21:05, July 30, 2012 (UTC) 
--Eyrezer (talk) 20:28, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 01:57, August 18, 2012 (UTC)- Menkooroo (talk) 23:39, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
- Cade Calrayn 03:54, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Green Tentacle (Talk) 15:27, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
Object
Savaged…
Is the plural Morodin or Morodins? The article currently employs both, such as the lead quote versus the lead section.- Its Morodins. Change where necessary, unless I missed any.
In "Society and culture," it's perhaps worth noting that they once had access to high technology but that it lapsed, since we're not supposed to privilege any one time period.- Added.
"it was generally believed" Is it at all possible to be more specific with this statement, to say whether it was scientists or historians or whoever who believed this?- Nope. The actual statement is: "It is believed that" with no mention of a qualifier.
Can you add publication years to the items mentioned in BTS?- Added years where known.
Any reason you don't simply list the planet Varonat in the infobox? We don't tend to list the sector, region, etc. in other species articles.- I like to since I am a completionist. The stuff gets mentioned in the article proper, so I see no reason not to list it in the infobox.
I just wonder if it would be better without to be consistent with all other species articles on the Wook. I'm not deadset against it, mind you, but merely a bit nervous to break with the standard. ~Savage 18:08, July 27, 2012 (UTC)- Removed. I still see no problem with it, however and am merely doing it for consistency. Perhaps WP:AS should look to adopting the format. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 18:44, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Removed. I still see no problem with it, however and am merely doing it for consistency. Perhaps WP:AS should look to adopting the format. - Cavalier One
- I like to since I am a completionist. The stuff gets mentioned in the article proper, so I see no reason not to list it in the infobox.
Habitat is generally not used with sentient species, except in special circumstances. Do you feel it's warranted here?- Then why is it included in the infobox if its not to be filled in? Why not have separate sentient and non-sentient infoboxes? I'm not wedded to keeping it, but if the field can be filled, then why not do so?
There are necessarily a few things that non-sentients will have that sentients won't, habitat generally being one of them. In the same way, sentients will get the language field, but non-sentients won't. Since the other 90% of the infobox is shared, it makes sense to use the same one for both non-sentients and sentients. The only time "habitat' becomes applicable to sentients is when they don't live in some form of self-made settlements (villages, towns, cities, dens, whatever). If you think that's the case here, it's fine to keep the "habitat" field filled in. But Ewoks, say, wouldn't get that field since they live in tree villages. I'll leave it for you to decide if the Morodins have any type of "settlements" or not. :) ~Savage 18:08, July 27, 2012 (UTC)- The Morodins don't have urban settlements so I agree with Cav that it is appropriate here. --Eyrezer (talk) 23:56, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Per Eyrezer on this one. It will stay since the Morodins have no "normal" trappings of society. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 18:44, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Per Eyrezer on this one. It will stay since the Morodins have no "normal" trappings of society. - Cavalier One
- The Morodins don't have urban settlements so I agree with Cav that it is appropriate here. --Eyrezer (talk) 23:56, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Then why is it included in the infobox if its not to be filled in? Why not have separate sentient and non-sentient infoboxes? I'm not wedded to keeping it, but if the field can be filled, then why not do so?
"Classification" is typically only "mammal," "reptile," etc., so I'd just go with "mammal" here. Anything else is better slotted into "Distinctions." That's it! Excellent work and an unexpected gift to WP:AS. :) ~Savage 20:15, July 26, 2012 (UTC)- Except the fact that they are refered to as both "mammals" and "lizard-slugs". These are very different. Listing them as only a mammal would be erroneous I feel. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 12:44, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
"Lizard-slug" strikes me as a descriptive term, not a scientific classification, which is what the "classification" field is really intended for. It's for things you would find in the Linnaean classificatory system, like mammal, reptile, feline, canine, ursine, etc. That's always been my take on it anyway. ~Savage 18:08, July 27, 2012 (UTC)- The Index of Alien Encounters categories all WEG species. I would go with whatever classification it gives the Morodin. --Eyrezer (talk) 23:56, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
- And if they were only refered to as lizard-slugs in IU conversation, I would agree. But they're not. Galactic Gazetteer: Hoth and the Greater Javin, an OOU source, refers to them as such. Therefore, removing reference to it in the infobox is, to me, wrong. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 18:44, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
So you think "lizard-slug" is a scientific classification, then, and not just colloquial? If so, we should probably create an article for it, like for simian and canine and the rest. I'm not be facetious here either; I trust your judgement on this, but we need to treat it like we do other scientific classifications. ~Savage 14:03, July 30, 2012 (UTC)- Then maybe I should use the term "Mammalian reptile-gastropod hybrid" to be more precise? I'm not trying to be stubborn on this, but I can't understand why you want to remove perfectly valid information from the infobox - information that is repeated in the body proper. Lizard-slug is used in two sources. Mammal in one. If anything, lizard-slug is the more preferred descriptive term, but I'm giving equal weight to both to be as comprehensive as possible. Morodins exhibit mammalian characteristics in the fact that they are a herd species and herbivorous. They excrete a slime trail which is characteristic of gastropods and is one of their most unique traits. Reptilian characteristics are a little harder to define, possibly something to do with the way they look. The possibility of the Morodin being a combination of mammalian, reptilian, and gastropod should not be discarded in favour of simply noting them as "mammals". As for the "lizard-slug" term - it could be a colloquialism, yes, so maybe using the term is a little incorrect. But as a descriptor, the information it indicates needs to be accounted for. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 14:28, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, if you wanted to use "mammal / reptile / gastropod" in that field, I'd be cool with that. Alternatively, you could say "[[Mammal/Legends|mammal]] / [[Reptile/Legends|lizard]]–[[Gastropod/Legends|slug]]" if you like the colloquial term. Would either of those work? My inclination is to err on the side of more scientific language, but either approach might work. Honestly, this is the first time something like this has come up, so forgive me if your article has become a testing ground for how to handle this type of thing. :) ~Savage 18:05, July 30, 2012 (UTC)- Changed to second suggestion since I think the actual descriptive term should be used. If that's acceptable, I'm glad we hammered this out finally :) - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 19:19, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Changed to second suggestion since I think the actual descriptive term should be used. If that's acceptable, I'm glad we hammered this out finally :) - Cavalier One
- Then maybe I should use the term "Mammalian reptile-gastropod hybrid" to be more precise? I'm not trying to be stubborn on this, but I can't understand why you want to remove perfectly valid information from the infobox - information that is repeated in the body proper. Lizard-slug is used in two sources. Mammal in one. If anything, lizard-slug is the more preferred descriptive term, but I'm giving equal weight to both to be as comprehensive as possible. Morodins exhibit mammalian characteristics in the fact that they are a herd species and herbivorous. They excrete a slime trail which is characteristic of gastropods and is one of their most unique traits. Reptilian characteristics are a little harder to define, possibly something to do with the way they look. The possibility of the Morodin being a combination of mammalian, reptilian, and gastropod should not be discarded in favour of simply noting them as "mammals". As for the "lizard-slug" term - it could be a colloquialism, yes, so maybe using the term is a little incorrect. But as a descriptor, the information it indicates needs to be accounted for. - Cavalier One
- And if they were only refered to as lizard-slugs in IU conversation, I would agree. But they're not. Galactic Gazetteer: Hoth and the Greater Javin, an OOU source, refers to them as such. Therefore, removing reference to it in the infobox is, to me, wrong. - Cavalier One
- The Index of Alien Encounters categories all WEG species. I would go with whatever classification it gives the Morodin. --Eyrezer (talk) 23:56, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Except the fact that they are refered to as both "mammals" and "lizard-slugs". These are very different. Listing them as only a mammal would be erroneous I feel. - Cavalier One
Eyrezer
An objection and a comment from me: Please add something to the BTS about who illustrated the species?- Done. The Alien Encounters artist isn't specified. I think its Joe Corroney, but I don't want to speculate.
On the species' classification, if you are going to include reptilian/gastropod in the infobox, I think the article should probably go in the accompanying categories, too.Oh, and on the homeworld (sector) suggestion, I'd prefer to keep the practice consistent with that of characters; i.e., homeworld only, not sector. Thanks for the suggestion, though. --Eyrezer (talk) 02:26, August 12, 2012 (UTC)- Added. On a note though, if you think that the classification categories should match the infobox, I agree. Sound practice, should have done it on the first go through. But, if the categories should reflect the infobox, why not in the homeworld? You added Category:Outer Rim species, so you're categorizing species by location but this information is nowhere to be found in the infobox. This, I think, should be considered when categorizing species. I'm an inclusionist. I would list sector/region to individuals infoboxes alongside homeworld, and I would do it to species as well. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 16:02, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
- Added. On a note though, if you think that the classification categories should match the infobox, I agree. Sound practice, should have done it on the first go through. But, if the categories should reflect the infobox, why not in the homeworld? You added Category:Outer Rim species, so you're categorizing species by location but this information is nowhere to be found in the infobox. This, I think, should be considered when categorizing species. I'm an inclusionist. I would list sector/region to individuals infoboxes alongside homeworld, and I would do it to species as well. - Cavalier One
Floyd
You use the plural "Morodins" throughout the article, but the very first sentence of the intro says "The Morodin were a species of large, sentient herbivores." I'm assuming this is a mistake?- Changed.
Article on the ecological disaster?- Added.
Article for the safari?- Added.
- Nice work. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 20:36, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review! - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 08:12, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review! - Cavalier One
Morodin
Can you find a place to link Gastropod in the article? It's pipelinked to slug in the infobox but doesn't appear in the body.- Pipelinked with slug as per infobox.
Is there anything you can say about that throat-sac thing below their snout in Bio & Appearance? Also --- do their fingers have claws? The first two images kinda look like they do.Menkooroo (talk) 11:34, September 18, 2012 (UTC)- Well, there's no mention as to what it is, so I don't want to speculate. From the positioning, I assumed it was just the Morodin's throat. It could be loose skin, it could be a sac, it could be muscle. Any answer would feel like speculating, unless you have an idea. As for the claws - added. The main image seems to support claws in the drawing. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 11:57, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe mention it without asserting what it is? Just describe it as some droopy flesh or something vague? Menkooroo (talk) 15:16, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Try that. Vague enough to be anything. - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 09:35, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
- Try that. Vague enough to be anything. - Cavalier One
- Maybe mention it without asserting what it is? Just describe it as some droopy flesh or something vague? Menkooroo (talk) 15:16, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, there's no mention as to what it is, so I don't want to speculate. From the positioning, I assumed it was just the Morodin's throat. It could be loose skin, it could be a sac, it could be muscle. Any answer would feel like speculating, unless you have an idea. As for the claws - added. The main image seems to support claws in the drawing. - Cavalier One
Comments
Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 15:27, September 22, 2012 (UTC)