Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Hand of Judgment

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Hand of Judgment

  • Nominated by: Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 18:34, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:As I have said, I find these guys to be absolutely adorable, though I think they would be mortally offended by such a statement. Anyway they deserve an article worth the FA status and I intend to make it so.

(3 Inqs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Plagueis327 (talk) 18:44, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Excellent perseverance through the objections. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 11:42, January 9, 2013 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 23:52, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
  4. A little emdash heavy, but I've been accused of that as well. Good work - is restoring Daric LaRone to FA next? Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 22:32, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Looking good. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:44, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote JangFett (Talk) 17:26, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
  7. Have finally given a full lookover. Great work, this clearly took a lot of effort. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 22:15, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

Object

Jangeth
  • At a glance, is there any way that you could insert some more images within the article's sections? Something relating to the text. JangFett (Talk) 02:42, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
    • I got something added to the history section, but finding something for the "Members" sections is a hard nut, as they are wearing the armor and helmets in every picture and only Brightwater can be easily identified in his scout helmet.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 07:44, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
      • That's fine then. The image for the section "Becoming the Hand of Judgment" mentions Luke in the caption, but he's nowhere to be found in that image. Possibly you could find a different image? JangFett (Talk) 15:31, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
        • I tried, but there was nothing of the three of them, and just the three of them I could find. Usual combinations were Luke, Han, Obi-Wan and Chewbacca, or Han, Leia and Chewbacca, and a lot of other out-of-the-topic characters.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:42, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
          • hmm there's always searching through the OT films. If you find a scene, you could tell Culator and he could possibly upload a blu ray shot of it. I think ROTJ has Luke-Han-Chewie shots IIRC. JangFett (Talk) 15:45, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
            • I'll try that. Starting with ANH, actually as it is closer to the correct time, and Luke still has the blue bladed lightsaber. In case I find something, where he uses it, you know. I'll get back to you in about two hours.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:59, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
              • I got two options. One from 1h 01min 05sec and another 1h 53min 51sec and I took screenshots from my dvd, but Culator's blu ray is likely to be higher quality so I'll ask him to replace them when he has time.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 18:21, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
                • Yup, looks good. Either one could work. JangFett (Talk) 22:00, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
Floyd
  • For a non-native English speaker, you did a solid job. Still, a good copyedit could be useful.
    • Thanks. Culator did one way back when I first put this up for a nom, but I haven't heard of him since then.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 09:25, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
      • I'm an amateur compared to some of our more accomplished copyeditors. I suggest you ping someone like MJ or Hanzo. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 17:32, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
        • I appreciate your help and advice, Culator, but MJ isn't taking request right now, if I understand correctly, and I don't know who Hanzo is, so can't ask him. Oh, and thanks for the better quality image, it is nice.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 19:28, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
          • I think I figured out who Hanzo is. I only got the idea of searching his name from other FANs after I said I don't know who you are talking about.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 19:52, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
  • Intro: "but the stormtrooper had turned tables on Drelfin" How so?
  • Context on Han and Luke in the intro.
  • "Rebel" and "Imperial" and such should always be capitalized.
  • I'll continue once you finish these, most importantly the copyedit. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 21:42, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks for advice. I wish someone would do the copyedit voluntarily without me pestering them around to do that.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 09:25, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
Hanzo
  • Prelims: Context needed for everything. For example, Executor needs to be specifically identified as an Executor-class Star Dreadnought, and you mentioned the events being after the Battle of Yavin in the intro, but never mention that in the article itself.
    • Both done. For the other things needing more context you need to be more specific, because I don't know what you mean by "everything".--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 16:38, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
      • Still didn't mention anything about the Battle of Yavin in the bio. Also, I feel like the body should start with mentioning that the stormtroopers were stationed on the Reprisal, rather than just directly talk about what the Reprisal did, as this is not the Teardrop massacre article. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 21:20, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
        • I do mention it, section "Becoming Hand of Judgment", third paragraph, first sentence. It is used to give a timeline, the battle itself has nothing to do with anything. I'll see what I can do about that other thing concerning the Reprisal.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 06:52, October 4, 2012 (UTC)
  • This might be a sofixit, but please use the {{CSWECite}} template for the behind the scenes citations on the entries. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:26, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
    • I'm very, very, very bad with specialized cite templates so if I mess it up, please fix it. But I'll try to do it myself first, because that's how I learn these things.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 16:00, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
      • Okay, I think it looks about right, but could you please take a look if I did do something wrong?--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 16:14, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
Cav
  • Intro: The connection between Cav'Saran's people and the swoop gang led the stormtroopers on a trail of BloodScar pirates who had been recruiting other illegal groups in Shelsha sector. - what connection? You haven't established one.
    • The connection they discovered there. Fixed.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:46, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • Its still vague sounding, and the sentence structure is off. What information? Where was the information located? Perhaps something like "information gleaned from Cav'Saran connected him to the swoop gang on Drunost, which in turn led them onto the trail of the Bloodscar ..." or some such wording.
  • Intro: who had arrived there to learn more about the earlier action which took place there - can you be more specific here? The wording is loose and vague.
    • That better?--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:46, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • To which previous encounter are you refering? The taking down of the swoop gang? Be explicit since two encounters have been mentioned in a short space.
  • Intro: Context for Drunost, Gepparin, Millennium Falcon, Troukee, Admonitor
    • Did I get them all?--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:46, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • Gepparin still needs context, and now you need a link (and article) for the Bloodscar base. Falcon still needs context, and now so does Chewbacca. Adding refugees to Troukee isn't context because you're not contextifying the species itself.
  • Intro: Specify who the crew of the Falcon are.
  • Intro: Jade covered LaRone and his companions against a member of the 501st Legion - covered how? Covering fire? Covered their presence?
  • Intro: When Jade got another mission which involved infiltrating the governmental palace - specify where.
  • Going rogue: Context for Ozzel; captain of what?
  • Going rogue: article for the city that was the site of the Teardrop massacre is needed.
  • Going rogue: was there a reason why the ISB ordered the Imperials to open fire on Teardrop?
    • I need to check the novel for that, and I don't have it with me. I get back to you about it as soon as I can.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:02, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
  • Going rogue: the killing Dreflin makes no mention of a back-up weapon like the intro states. Which is correct?
  • Going rogue: Context for Drunost
  • Becoming the Hand of Judgment: Context for Ranklinge
  • Becoming the Hand of Judgment: the meeting with the 2 Humans and Wookiee and the confrontation with pirates in the Purnham system needs more detail. How did they follow them? Did the humans and Wookiee have a ship? What kind of battle occured?
    • I did what I could without the novel. I get back to this point, when I have it in hand again.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:14, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • I think that pretty much covers it. I also added two more red links I turn blue as soon as I can.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 13:42, November 13, 2012 (UTC)
  • Becoming the Hand of Judgment: What happened at the Battle of Yavin that was so important?
  • Becoming the Hand of Judgment: Why was Ozzel afraid that Jade had found out about the stormtroopers?
  • Working for the Emperor's Hand: The faked military registry information, allowing them to land unchallenged at Greencliff Regional Spaceport. I presume this is refering to the Gillia, and not the Executor? Please be specific.
  • Working for the Emperor's Hand: Context for 501st Legion
  • Working for the Emperor's Hand: where did Caaldra come from during the infiltration of the governor's palace on Shelkowna? She just pops in out of nowhere.
  • Working for the Emperor's Hand: Who is Disra, and what plot was he behind?
    • Does that make any sense or did it make it only more confusing?--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:31, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • Still need to know who Disra is - Imperial Moff, etc
        • Disra is only an Administrator by that point and I tell it on the first mention of his name. In fact, I noticed I had linked him twice.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:49, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
  • Working for the Emperor's Hand: what happened to the Millennium Falcon? Last we see, Chewie brings it back, but no further mention is made of it, and its isn't clear that they all travel in one ship.
    • Because that is the last the reader sees it. But fixed the best I could.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:31, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • It might work better mentioning that the Falcon was hidden earlier in the article to maintain a chronological order.
  • Going out with a bang: Context on Elegasso, Pickerin
    • Them being planets is about all there is to say that isn't already covered, they are only interesting for us because Hand of Judgment either went there or was planning to go there.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:38, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • Sometimes, that's all you need to do :)
  • Going out with a bang: Skywalker is mentioned as being blamed for the murder of the governor, but the governor is still alive. Please clarify.
  • Protecting the Governor: where did Axlon come from?
  • Protecting the Governor: Axlon describes his reasons for doing what he was doing to the Hand. Please tell us what his plan was as well.
  • Protecting the Governor: stormtrooper armor piled on Ferrouz? Please state this earlier, and the reason for this.
  • New career: who need to mention earlier that the Hand's attackers in the tapcafe are Nuso Esva's troops.
  • New career: The Troukree—who had some back up waiting outside the tapcafe—prevented the plan. They also turned off the jamming device their enemies had been using. - which Troukee did this? The backup or that ones in the tapcafe? Also, what jamming device?
    • The both mentions were intended to mean the Troukree in general as there is no way to tell who did what at that point.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:54, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
      • Might be an idea to mention the jamming device earlier in the chronology of events.
  • New career: Context for Admonitor - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 13:07, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
Prelimi-scary
  • Can you take a shot at trimming the intro? It's... huge. Three or four paragraphs is usually the standard for big articles, with five generally being overkill. I recommend going through the intro and removing some details, leaving only the very important ones that help give a basic overview of the team and their history.
    • I'll see what I can do, as long as no one later tells me to put back the stuff you tell me to omit.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 06:38, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
      • Besides, isn't that a matter of taste, without any specific rule?--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 06:53, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
        • The difference between three and four paragraphs, or between short and long paragraphs, would be a matter of taste, but an intro as long as this one goes well beyond the idea of giving-a-short-overview. Brevity should always be a goal when writing an intro --- what you leave out is just as important as what you put in. Menkooroo (talk) 07:31, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
          • Sorry. After staring at that intro for half a day, there is absolutely nothing I can take out without its quality suffering seriously. If you can tell me exactly what you think is unnecessary, there is nothing I can do about it.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 13:20, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
            • I can't tell you exactly what to take out; you need to be more flexible. Try rewriting it from scratch. I can give you a few tips, though: Daric's killing of Drelfin is way too detailed for the purposes of an intro and could easily be a couple of sentences shorter. Details like Drunost being controlled by Consolidated Shipping don't have any affect on the rest of the intro and aren't necessary. If you look at Daric LaRone's intro, as well as intros on characters like Nek Bwua'tu and Judder Page who have been in quite a few books each, hopefully you'll get a better understanding of making intros brief summaries rather than detailed accounts. You have a lot of options here, and flexibility is key. Menkooroo (talk) 13:33, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
              • The info about Conso is the context I added in response to Cav's objection above yours. If it wasn't demanded that everything in the intro must have context, it would be easier to keep them from becoming long.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 13:48, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
                • Now there are only three, as you were not interested in how long they are, but only about their number. Happy?--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:06, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
                  • Of course length is an issue --- combining five small paragraphs into three large ones doesn't accomplish anything save reorganization. That middle paragraph is huge and could definitely stand to be cut down to be roughly the size of the other two paragraphs, for consistency, aesthetic reasons, and most importantly, to fulfill the intro's objective of being a bare-bones summary. This won't be too difficult and won't require too much creativity --- a good goal would be a halfway point between its current length/level of detail and the current length/level of detail in LaRone's intro. That's just one suggestion; feel free to tackle this objection any way you can, but it does need to be done. Menkooroo (talk) 14:33, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
                    • A couple of suggestions: Details like "went to help a downed ship which had landed near them and" aren't necessary; you can just say that they encountered Mara Jade. Nor is name-dropping Caaldra --- pipelinking him to "a pirate" would be fine. These are some starting points off of which you can build if you want, but trim more than just these two details. Menkooroo (talk) 14:39, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
                      • Caaldra's name might not be necessary, but the reason why they were separated from Skywalker and Solo (the downed ship) definitely is. And for the record, I still think this is one of those "matter of taste" things. If I had wanted to be snide, I would have simply removed that original empty line between 4th and 5th paras and called it a day. So don't you go thinking I haven't given this all my effort.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:47, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
                        • You've given it barely any effort at all, only removing the slightest bit of info when you've been pointed directly to it and consistently refusing to find and remove any extraneous info yourself. If you're going to be this unwilling to compromise or to accept advice on how to improve the article, then I'm not interested in reviewing it. Menkooroo (talk) 15:02, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
                          • I've rewritten it twice on Word, but both times it became even longer, when I noticed other bits of information I was missing, so they never made it to Wook. I've spend this entire day working on this one objection, even if I haven't edited the Wook version of it. And I do accept objections and follow them.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:07, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
  • Image caption punctuation: Any image caption which is a full sentence, in either past or present tense, should receive punctuation at the end. Almost every image in the article is in need of this.
  • Is the first sentence of "Behind the scenes" from a specific part of Allegiance, such as the thank-yous or the dedication? If so, can you specifically reference that so that it doesn't look like it comes from the novel itself?
  • Also, context on Albin Johnson.
  • Since the infobox is supposed to represent their entire operational history, and not just their latest appearance, I always advise against adding "formerly" to an affiliation. It's best to either leave it blank or add dates in brackets. Menkooroo (talk) 03:43, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
Floyd takes another look
  • Intro: "when the Hand of Judgment had inadvertently rescued Rebel smugglers pretending to be farmers." I don't really like how you introduce this here. I think that you should mention that the farmers were Rebel smugglers when you first mention them. Probably something like "a group of farmers, who were secretly Rebel smugglers."
  • Intro: Is there an article for the Shelkonwa capital?
  • Intro: "led by Vaantaar they had met in the Whitestone City," This part really doesn't work from a grammatical standpoint - something like "led by Vaantaar, a [context on Vaantaar] they had met in the Whitestone City. Also, context on the Whitestone City would be useful.
  • Intro: Exactly who was making attacks on Ferrouz's life? There needs to be more context on this whole situation, including who had kidnapped his family and why.
  • Link for the Teardrop Rebel base?
  • "suspected city on the hills." They suspected a city on the hills? Suspected it for what? You already say that the Rebels had cleared out.
  • You are using a ton of dashes in your writing. Now I use dashes a lot as well, but you should probably cut down just a little bit.
  • "After they departed from Drunost, LaRone's group headed to Ranklinge, a planet in Shelsha sector of the Colonies, where they intended to complete their shopping, but when they landed in the city of Janusar, Sergeant Whisteer of the local patrol group tried to shake them down." This sentence kinda runs on and should probably be split up.
  • "Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith, had personally arrived to search for Organa," You link to Organa as the Rebels' "friend" in the previous section, but do not introduce her. You need to do so then, since this sentence goes without any context.
  • "but as the young woman—Mara Jade, Emperor's Hand—" This needs to be changed. You actually mention Jade earlier in the section, after introducing the "young red-haired woman". As such, this doesn't fit.
    • Oops! That was a leftover from a previous version where that was the first place where I introduced her.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 09:08, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
      • You took that part out, which is fine. However, as it stands now there's no real part where you introduce who she was. It goes from calling her the "young red-haired woman" to "Jade" without any transition. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 00:31, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
  • Also, link to Jade's ship?
  • "he had learned about the door as a teenager when the Governor's son, Crayg, had used it to slip away to the city with his friend" I'm assuming this friend is Marcross. You need to exclusively identify him as such.
  • Governor Choard needs to be introduced somewhere. He really isn't. "she suspected the Governor to be a traitor to the Empire" is the first mention of him, with no context.
  • "she learned from Caaldra—who had arrived to the planet just ahead of Jade bringing fifty AT-STs with him and setting one of them on autopilot to distract the woman" You already mentioned this earlier.
  • "While Jade struggled to overcome the difficulties Caaldra had put in her way" Such as?
  • "as he was certain their desertion would be revealed and they would be killed. LaRone was also certain" Double "certain". Try to avoid this kind of repetition.
  • You need to go through the article and add first names to the quote attributions.
  • "The Hand of Judgment returned the Rebels on the Millennium Falcon" Did they return the Rebels to the Falcon, or return to them on the Falcon? This sentence is unclear.
  • The first paragraph of "Going out with a bang" really needs to be refocused to the past tense. Stuff like "if they should retire" and "they still might survive a couple of missions" isn't really past tense.
  • "who turned out to be the corrupt politician from Elegasso. Bok Yost..." This needs to be combined. Something like "Bok Yost, the corrupt politician..."
  • Link to Yost's group of mercenaries?
  • "To the Hand of Judgment it was clear that Jade would not take no for an answer. On the other hand, they had been planning on doing something important for their last mission" Is this really on the other hand? They both seem to be reasons for the Hand of Judgment teaming up with Jade.
    • They are. That is the problem with idioms, they don't translate well. In my native language we can use the expression "on the other hand" also to mean something that leads into the same conclusion from a different starting point. Uhm... Hang on. I really need to think this through.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 09:32, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
      • Yeah, sometimes I forget you're not a native English speaker. :P IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 00:31, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
  • Again, context on Whitestone City.
  • Link to the Troukree homeworld, and Esva's attack on it?
    • We don't know if Esva attacked it. When Vaantaar left, there were warning signs about the coming attack, but none of Vaantaar's refugees was there to see if the attack really came. We can assume he did, but I thought assumptions were discouraged in Wook.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 09:32, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
      • Fair enough. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 00:31, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
        • For further confirmation I found the conversation from the novel. Vaantaar says: "[Nuso Esva] was preparing to conquer or destroy our own world when we fled. To this day, we do not know which was its fate." (Emphasis mine) By his words there is no real confirmation if that battle really took place. Trying to write an article from that is far too much speculation.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 15:50, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • "but later the Hand of Judgment learned that it had been the Rebel who had shot Ferrouz." This little tidbit should be saved for later, when Axlon's treachery is revealed.
  • "Esva had convinced Axlon that it was Senior Captain Thrawn and not Grand Moff Tarkin, who was responsible for Alderaan's destruction and thus convinced the Rebel to help him to lure the Chiss officer into a trap" Wait, what? More context is needed on all of this. You have the necessary info later in the paragraph, but it should be moved here, or this sentence should be moved.
  • Work through these and I'll take another look. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 03:02, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
Judgment
  • Timothy Zahn said something interesting in a facebook chat yesterday: "If there are to be more books, and if LFL/Del Rey/Disney decide to let me write some of them, I have a trilogy project to pitch where the third book would also be the third book of the Hand of Judgment series (Allegiance and Choices of One). Again, I don't know if that will happen." So, it's nothing official or anything, but it might be worth adding to this article's "Behind the scenes" section that Zahn is at least interested in writing a third book featuring the Hand of Judgment.
    • Ooo! Disney or who ever is pulling the strings now, take my money but please make this happen! In other words: Added! But I don't know how to make permalink archive thing, so I left that out from the ref.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 22:35, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
  • Since it's a canonical image of the Hand of Judgment, I think that a cropped version of this image should be included in the article. Menkooroo (talk) 12:58, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
    • Okay. I cropped it, but for some reason Wookieepedia doesn't allow me to upload it. It just keeps telling me that "the action has been deemed harmful" or something. I've been able to load images before no problem, so got no idea what is wrong now. And I've got more than enough edits and my e-mail has been confirmed ages ago, so everything should be fine!--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 22:35, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

I would appreciate if someone did a full copy-edit to the article to root out all my idiotic "non-native-english-speaker-mistakes". Thanks for all the feedback in advance!--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 18:34, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Are you absolutely sure it isn't Hand of Judgement? Nevermind, the Complete Encyclopedia confirmed it...move along... Winterz (talk) 17:16, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

  • I've spelled it like that many times, too, but the current one seems to be the official one.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 17:42, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I've got a graduation ceremony coming up in UK on Friday, so I will be away from home for several days. I'm not certain what kind of Internet service our hotel provides, so I don't know if I can get to read Wookieepedia while there, and obviously I won't be having any novels or other source material with me. I'll deal with anything that comes up when I get back, asap. It should still say inside the normal, acceptable time to deal with any objections.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 08:39, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

  • Oh, and just for the record: I'm back home with books and Internet, so keep the objections coming.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 16:16, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 03:19, February 3, 2013 (UTC)