Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Battle of Gazzari

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Battle of Gazzari

My first FAN, so any help would be appreciated. Beware Knight Errant (novel) spoilers. Axinal Convocation Chamber 20:52, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

(4 Inqs/2 Users/6 Total)

Support

  1. Inqvote Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:47, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
  2. Jinzler 22:30, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote—Tommy 9281 Saturday, May 21, 2011, 01:12 UTC
  4. Inqvote Green Tentacle (Talk) 12:32, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
  5. Good book, good article. Kilson(Let's have a chat) 21:33, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 17:35, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

Object

Fred strikes
  • Just at a glance, please fix links so that they don't point to redirects. There are several in the article. If need be, I'll show you which ones, but as I'm not feeling well, I'll leave it for now. :) MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 22:30, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
    • Fixed a few, think I got them all. Thanks, Fred. Axinal Convocation Chamber 22:57, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
      • You got most of them. Sword of Ieldis appears in the infobox and the intro. Also, shock troopers appears in the body. That's all of them. Are you gonna nominate articles normally? MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 23:52, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
        • Fixed. Never noticed the T in Shock Troopers was capitalized. Depending on how this goes, I may be nominating more than I have in the past. Axinal Convocation Chamber 01:28, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
          • If you do nom more, I might show you how to make redirects appear a different color so you can easily spot them. Anyway, I'll look over it some more later. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 02:33, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
  • The introduction is waaay too long. Please cut down on it. 1358 (Talk) 13:46, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
    • Reduced it significantly. It still looks a bit long because the infobox is so wide, but I actually cut it down by about 30%.Axinal Convocation Chamber 16:16, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
      • Sorry, forgot this. 1358 (Talk) 19:06, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
Jujiggum's first look
  • "…planning to assassinate the Sith Lord with baradium nitrate explosives and a remote detonator which she had stolen from Ka'hane." I don't think this should be mentioned this early in the intro: firstly, because she didn't end up assassinating him, and secondly, because the reader will be confused as to why she didn't assassinate him because you give no further explanation on the matter. I think you should just mention the explosives later when she destroys the Death Spiral.
    • I mentioned that for two reasons: first, to explain where, exactly, Kerra got the explosives (though I suppose in the intro that's not necessary), and second, because I suspect readers will be curious as to why Kerra would have sneaked aboard the vessel in the first place. Again, though, I suppose that can wait until the prelude section, where I can give details a little more liberally.
      • Yeah, it's about finding the balance between too much detail, too little detail, and what does and doesn't deserve detail. I'd suggest reading a handfull of other event FAs if you're not sure what kinds of things you should include. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:51, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  • "…sending it toward the Death Spiral. She used Ka'hane's detonator to set off the explosion, which destroyed Odion's massive weapon." IIRC she sent the bike inside an opening or something like that at the base of the Spiral. That would probably be worth mentioning here, perhaps instead of "toward." (Apologies if I'm completely wrong about this…)
    • According to the narrative, the speeder bike "was on a direct course back to the Death Spiral's speeder bays." So it seems Holt sent it into the Death Spiral, like you said. I think I realized this before, but I guess toward was just poor word choice. "Into" is now reflected in the intro. I'll also be sure to put it into the battle section.
  • You're leaving out some very important aftermath events from the intro: you don't say anything regarding the defeat of the Bactranate
    • Mentioned. I didn't really think aftermath info was necessary in the intro.
      • Yep; usually just the direct consequences are important enough to deserve mention. The defeat of the Bactranate is actually a perfect example of what aftermath info definitely belongs in an intro. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:51, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  • Some bits of the intro are a little too detailed, while others leave out some very important facts. For example: do we need to string out the context on Vilia quite so lengthily? Is it necessary to detail that the Givin's name was Jelcho (could you not pipelink it?) and that he was chasing Holt, when you don't mention some larger-scope things such as the fact that 5/6 of Rusher's Brigade was killed or MIA? Why do we need to know that Holt stole the explosives from Ka'hane or that they were specifically baradium nitrate, when you don't even mention Odion's Thunder Guard? Please go through the intro and eliminate what overly-extensive detail you can in favor of more "big-picture" information that's currently missing.
    • Originally, it was much more detailed, but I cut down on what I didn't think was necessary at the request of Xd. I've cut down on it significantly (again). I personally think it's too summarized this time, but I'd like to hear your opinion again on what I should mention that I haven't and what I shouldn't mention that I have. I think the context on Calimondra is necessary, as it establishes why she was able to convince Daiman and Odion to work together just by telling them to. Do you think the Thunder Guard should be mentioned in the intro?
      • As far as size goes, you're pretty much right where you want to be right now, although you do have room for a little expansion. There are still some unnecessary details, and some details that should definitely be mentioned. You can save room on some things by pipelinking—I did so by pipelinking baradium nitrate to "explosives": for a summary, it's not important what kind of explosives they were, it's just important that they were explosives. For some examples of important things that are still missing: you've neglected to describe much of the mercenaries' actual role in the battle, you haven't named the majority of the combatants on either side, and the full extent of the damage caused by the Death Spiral isn't really realized. A couple examples of some unnecessary things: it's not important to link the testing facility's full name, when we could just say "…the destruction of a Daimanate Testing Facility…"; it's not important that the testing facility was on Darkknell, especially since Darkknell is not given any further mention in the intro; the second and third sentences of the last paragraph are somewhat redundantly worded; Bactranate could easily be pipelinked into "Bactra's territory"; etc. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:51, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
        • Take a look at it now. I've pipelinked some stuff to cut it down a bit more, but I also added to the portions regarding the mercenaries and the Death Spiral, as you suggested.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 01:10, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
          • A little better, but there are still several significant points missing. In fact, two of the three major points I listed in my previous post have remained unmentioned. Also, please check out my copy-edit for some more things that I was looking for you to cut out. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 15:10, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
            • I apologize. I'm trying to mention everything you asked me to without going into too much detail. I've now mentioned the mercenary commanders by name, and described that Odion's forces, in addition to the Death Spiral, included speeder bikes, airspeeders, and walkers. (I've redlinked to a new page for the walkers, which are never named. I'll create that article shortly) I've also explained that the mercenaries used artillery cannons to fire at the Death Spiral. I think that covers the two unsatisfied objections from above. Thanks again for your help with this.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 17:40, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
  • Please kill the new redlink in the intro (Although you may end up removing it from the intro due to my previous objection)
    • Killed, at least in the intro. I had pipelinked it to baradium before; I'll link it directly to baradium nitrate in the main part of the article as well.
  • Do we know whether or not at least one of the students died? If so, they should be mentioned in the civilian casualties field in the infobox.
    • I looked over that section of the book for that specific purpose; unless I missed something in my several rereads, there is no mention of any students' deaths.
  • Context on the Dyarchy please
    • Added
  • Why don't we have actual articles for Daiman's, Odion's, and Bactra's war fleets?
    • Considering that we know very little about them, I think linking them directly to fleet is okay; but if you think they're worthy of their own articles, I'd gladly make them. Howeveer, in cutting down on the details of the intro, the word "fleet" is no longer mentioned.
      • Fair enough for now, although I wouldn't be surprised to see their creation become necessary as more of the comics are released. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:51, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  • Note that these all pertain to the intro. I'll continue my first look at the rest of the article asap. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 20:16, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
  • Please add the {{New Sith Wars campaign}} template. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 15:10, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
  • Lots of context missing in the Prelude. Specifically, I'm looking at Vilia; Daiman; Cyricept Personal Concealment System, Mark VI; Daiman's Correctors; and the Sanctum Celestial
  • You don't really explain why Daiman wanted Narsk to hear of his plans and escape to tell Odion.
  • "Daiman also invited several mercenaries to his Sanctum Celestial to help him execute an ambush against his brother." Up until this point we have no idea that he's planning to ambush Odion; you just say that he suspected Odion's involvement in the destruction of the facility. Please explain this a little bit sooner so that the earlier events of the Prelude tie together better. As a whole, I'd just like a bit more clarification throughout the intro that this is about him setting a trap for Odion.
  • Could you use something a bit less colloquial than "straight-up fights?"
  • Why did Kerra stow aboard the Era Daimanos?
    • Added.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 02:42, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
      • Since you open the next section with Holt disembarking the Era Daimanos, would it be worth mentioning somewhere in the Prelude that Kerra was unable to assassinate Daiman aboard the ship like she had planned? Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 03:04, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
        • Actually, I don't think she ever planned to kill him on the ship. I'll look into that tomorrow, and try to clarify it in the article either way.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 04:04, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
          • Nope, it appears you were right. She looked for him on the ship, but couldn't find him. Added to the article.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 17:15, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
  • Continuing with "The battle" section next. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:50, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
  • "In the confusion, ships from both the Daimanate and the Odionate fired on the mercenaries, unsure of just whose side they were on." Please specify that the other merc forces were also off-planet; otherwise, this sounds like it's referring specifically to the Diligence.
    • Added
  • The battle section should probably be subsectioned.
    • How's that? Thanks for the copy-edit. I'll also create the article you redlinked.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 19:00, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
      • No problem! I ended up tweaking the section names to things I felt were a bit more appropriate (it wasn't necessarily a retreat per se). Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:17, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • Continuing with "Aftermath" and the BTS ASAP. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 18:39, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • And no objections for those. I'll give the whole article one more quick look-over as soon as I can. Good work! Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:17, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
  • One last little thing: In the Ayanos Bactra article, it is stated that Arkadia only claimed that Bactra had gone into hiding in a retirement colony; your wording, on the other hand, implies certainty on the issue. Which is correct? If it is the latter, the only thing you need to do is link an article for the colony. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:27, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
    • Yep, Bactra was at the colony according to her "latest information." I've adjusted the aftermath accordingly. Do you still think I should create an article for Unidentified Quermian retirement colony? Thanks.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 23:39, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
      • No, because we don't know for certain that it even existed. That's why it was important to get this straight—it's possible that Arkadia was lying/just had incorrect information. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 23:47, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
Jinzler
  • From the intro: during the Second Charge Matrica. Page 303 uses the capitalization "second Charge Matrica" and, although I may be mistaken, I don't recall the word "Second" being capitalized anywhere else in the novel. What do you think?
    • You're correct; JJM capitalizes it in his FB post, but the novel does not. Changed.
  • The fact that the battle is part of the second Charge Matrica is only currently mentioned in the introduction, the infobox, and the BTS section. You might want to find a way of also mentioning it somewhere in the main body of the article.
    • Added to the prelude. What do you think?
      • Perfect --Jinzler 22:30, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
  • Thats everything from me. You've done a fantastic job here and I can't congratulate you enough. Well done. --Jinzler 21:49, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
Green Tentacle
  • Intro: "Bactra arrived on the planet with the arxeum and four transports filled with students." Was Bactra ever actually on the planet?
    • No, he didn't. I've reworded it a bit.
  • Prelude: "Kr'saang, however, refused to work for Daiman, insisting that he only participated in direct confrontations, not in ambushes. Instead of allowing Kr'saang to leave, however, Daiman killed the Togorian with his lightsaber." A little picky, but can you reword one of the howevers. No big deal if you can't. Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:24, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
    • Nah, simple fix. I changed the first one to "though." What do you think? Thanks for the review!—Axinal Convocation Chamber 00:09, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
Minority Report
  • "the presence of Odion was, unbeknownst to many, causing troops on the battlefield to act recklessly, even suicidally." Is this not battle meditation?
    • I wouldn't call it that; the books and the comics show that Odion's pleasure for death is so great that his mere presence is enough to cause troops, both his and others', to act suicidally, without any conscious effort on Odion's part.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 01:10, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • Is there no article for this invasion of the Bactranate?
    • Not much is known about it, but I suppose it's article-worthy. I've created it and linked it in the article.
  • That's all, not bad.—Tommy 9281 Saturday, May 21, 2011, 00:45 UTC
Why is Kilson on the FAN?
  • In the article, you don't mention all eight of Rusher's Brigade battalions, which might be considered Infobox–exclusive info. In the Prelude section, when you discuss how Rusher set up his forces, maybe you should mention how Rusher had all eight of his battalions set up for the battle, and then you can list all eight of them.
    • Added; nice catch.
  • In the second paragraph of the Battle section, "He then boarded his own transport, ordering Jelcho and Ka'hane to come with him." This is the first time you mentioned that Ka'hane had accompanied Odion's fleet. You should probably make that clear earlier on in the section.
    • Added.
  • Otherwise, nice job. I remember the battle being very interesting in the book. Kilson(Let's have a chat) 16:45, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Comments


Looking over the article again, I'm thinking the second paragraph of the BTS section is unnecessary. I'll leave it for now until I hear thoughts from the Inquisitorius.—Axinal Convocation Chamber 15:22, March 20, 2011 (UTC)