Wookieepedia:Comprehensive article nominations/Merumeru's battle staff

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a comprehensive article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Merumeru's battle staff

• Nominated by: GTQ^(Problems?) 03:24, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
• Nomination comments:

(0 ECs/2 Users/2 Total)

Support

1. —Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:26, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
   • See below.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:07, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
2. Assuming Ax and Bob's objections are dealt with. Bonslywizard ^{(Send a transmission)} 00:46, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Object

1. Bonzlywizard
   • Context on Mermeru.
   • If the staff's only mention is in the DB, what info did you get from the Campaign Guide?
   • Could you maybe try to get a picture of it, assuming it's what Mermeru's holding in the DB pic?
     • Okay, better, but the pic's waaay too small. Could you see if you can get a bigger version? If you can't I could give it a try. Bonslywizard ^{(Send a transmission)} 21:57, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
   • This your first nom? If so, welcome! If not, er...welcome back. Bonslywizard ^{(Send a transmission)} 18:12, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
     • Context added on Merumeru picture added too. The campaign guide mentions nothing that is not there but I have made mention of it in behind the scenes GTQ^(Problems?) 21:43, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
       • I'll give the pick another shot GTQ^(Problems?) 22:03, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
         • Quality of the pic is bad but when aiming for such a small area of an already small pic It is hard to get good quality GTQ^(Problems?) 22:13, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
2. Axinal
   • Because the article has multiple sources, it needs referencing.
   • I'd argue that the article could be expanded. Does TCWCG mention when specifically Merumeru used the staff? Even if it doesn't, the pic is from Episode III, so it's probably safe to say he wielded it during the Battle of Kashyyyk.
   • I removed the 250px designation from the picture, as it became too blurry.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 22:37, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
     • TCWGC only mentions what is in the databank according to Jinzler as I do not have TCWGC but I referenced it. I added ROTS to the appearances and mentioned he used during the battle GTQ^(Problems?) 23:35, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
       • Good work, the picture is much better, as well. I'd just rearrange the BTS to make it a little more chronological, as RotS came before TCWCG and the Databank entry.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 00:31, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
         • Done GTQ^(Problems?) 01:05, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
           • Better; I gave the article a copy-edit, removed the {{Ref}} template from the text, since it's only needed in the infobox, and also moved some of the refs around in the BTS so the entire paragraph isn't sourced three times. I also rewrote the BTS a little to make it more accurate.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:26, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
             • Thanks for all the help GTQ^(Problems?) 01:31, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
3. Is there any reason to believe this is a unique item and not, simply, a staff used in battle? In other words, why is "battle staff" worth giving its own article when we wouldn't do the same for "tall Human" or "open door"? If there is no evidence it's a unique item, I suggest moving the article to Merumeru's battle staff or, potentially, [[Wookiee battle staff]] if any source explicitly calls it such. ~Savage 16:23, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
   • Merumeru's Databank entry puts "battle staff" under his "Weapons" list, but it's safe to assume it wouldn't put "Tall Wookiee" under his Species category. I personally don't see a problem with this having its own article.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 16:28, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
     • OK, but what distinguishes "battle staff" from "staff", an article we already have on long poles used to hit people with? ~Savage 16:51, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
       • Hmm, fair question, but again, I would point to the fact that the DB's infobox specifically identifies it as a battle staff, whereas it would not identify Merumeru as a tall Wookiee or Luke's lightsaber as a green lightsaber.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 17:05, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
         • I see what you mean, and I guess on that basis I can live with an article called "battle staff," but it needs to be generic and cover every battle staff used in Star Wars, not focus only on Merumeru's weapon. Otherwise, the article should be renamed "Merumeru's battle staff." I mean, Kenner and Hasbro alone have introduced tons of "battle staffs" into canon, and these all would need to be included in a generic "battle staff" article. ~Savage
           • Yes, I see what you mean. Perhaps GTQ could move it to "Merumeru's battle staff"; would that then need a Conjecture tag?—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 18:27, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
             • Probably would need a conjecture tag, yes. There's also an issue of folks in the past not liking articles on specific weapons used by specific characters; the SH is here. I don't think there was ever any consensus, but just beware that "Merumeru's battle staff" will likely meet with grumbles from some. ;) ~Savage 01:31, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
               • I think I should keep it here because as Axinal has said it is specifically calls it a battle staff in the DB so I think it is good as it is unless it is met with a general consensus that I should move it then I will move it GTQ^(Problems?) 01:52, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
                 • I agree; I, too, would like to hear another opinion on this, but I say keep the article as is for now until we can reach an agreement on whether the subject is worthy of an article, and if so, what it should be named.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 02:01, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
                   • Upon going to the staff article I found it listed multiple kinds of staff so maybe a battle staff is just a different kind of staff GTQ^(Problems?) 02:04, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
                     • You're welcome to keep the article at "battle staff," but, again, it will need to cover all battle staffs, not just Merumeru's. You'll have to incorporate the Massassi battle staff and the Gungan battle staff from here at the very least; I suspect there may be other weapons out there called "battle staffs." ~Savage 02:28, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
                       • Ya know what I'll move it but I need some help doing that as last time I tried i duplicated not moved the article GTQ^(Problems?) 15:43, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
                         • Check that moved it GTQ^(Problems?) 23:11, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
   • OK, a few more issues: You should provide a physical description of the weapon at some point. What color was it? Is it possible to tell how long it is in comparison to Merumeru's height from the film? How did Merumeru carry it and wield it?
   • Next, you should probably link to the staff article at some point in the article. ~Savage 23:32, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
     • added staff link told how long it was the only problem with this is that you never actually see him fight with the staff just hold it up in the air but if you really want me to do it I can try. GTQ^(Problems?) 23:39, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
       • Better! I think you still need to go into some detail about the context in which he wielded it. Check out the articles on Guanta and Lachichuk and see how we've described the situation where Merumeru waves the staff over his head. I think you should probably describe this event too. ~Savage 15:47, May 23, 2011 (UTC)
   • Another concern: Why are "appearances" being privileged in the BTS rather than sources? I'd suggest simply saying what the staff's first appearance was, then saying that a promotional image of Merumeru wielding the staff has since been printed in several sources. You can list them if you want, but it might be enough to say "several sources" and then add footnotes for all of them. ~Savage 15:47, May 23, 2011 (UTC)
     • All have been dealt with GTQ^(Problems?) 19:57, May 23, 2011 (UTC)
       • I still think you need to provide a bit more background on the battle. Just another sentence or two about why there was a battle in the first place. Then we're good. ~Savage 22:38, May 25, 2011 (UTC)
         • I am not 100% sure what you mean by that could you please explain in a little more detail what you would like me to do thanks GTQ^(Problems?) 20:46, May 26, 2011 (UTC)
           • Sure. What was the Battle of Kashyyyk? When was it? Why was it being fought? Why was Merumeru leading soldiers? Who were the soldiers? You need to give more context than you do. Again, see Guanta for an example of what I mean. ~Savage 03:25, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
             • Ok I've done that but now i qualifies as a GA so I will nom it there. GTQ^(Problems?) 20:08, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
4. A few problems now arise that you have moved it. It will need a {{Conjecture}} template at the top, and you should probably remove the {{1stID}} template from the sources section. You could, however, mention in the BTS that the weapon was identified as a "battle staff" in Merumeru's Databank entry. Also, the article should be renamed "Merumeru's battle staff" (note the lowercase b). Once these have been addressed, I will be willing to support again.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:07, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
   • all have been addressed GTQ^(Problems?) 02:01, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
     • Not quite. Please remove the {{1stID}} template from the sources section, and, instead, mention in the BTS that the item was called a "battle staff" in Merumeru's DB entry.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber}
       • Ok sorry I miss read your objection they have been fully addressed now GTQ^(Problems?) 01:15, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
         • Good work, I'm satisfied.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:18, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
5. The Wookiees are back!
   • [[:File:Largetrailer8.jpg|The image]] that the battle staff appears in (which we've taken to calling the "Rawr" image over in the Barnburner HQ) appears in quite a few sources, so I've gone ahead and updated this article's Appearances and sources sections. They're all just (Picture only), so you don't need to research them to find any information. However! As I've added two items to the "Appearances" section, the sentence in Behind the scenes that states "The battle staff's only appearance to date in Star Wars canon is in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith." is now incorrect. Please revise.
   • "The Wookiees Are Back!" from the Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith DVD shows some behind-the-scenes footage of the staff. It's available on youtube here, and beginning at about 4:50, it shows Axel Dench filming the scene where he holds the battle staff. Using that as your source, you should talk about the filming of the scene, describe the prop that Axel used, and mention that it was digitally turned into a battle staff during the film's post-production. Let me know if you need any help with this. Menkooroo 07:25, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
     • Done thanks for the review Menk assuming your done GTQ^(Problems?) 21:02, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

This now qualifies as a GA would the EduCorps please vote to remove the nom so I can try to GA it GTQ^(Problems?) 20:08, May 27, 2011 (UTC)