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Signing
Please sign only using four tildes (~~~~), not ~~~~TonyPettengill or something like that. JRT2010 (talk) 16:53, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, thought that the four tildes was just a buffer point before putting in the username. TonyPettengill (talk) 17:03, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
Anakin Skywalker talk page
Hello! While I applaud your enthusiasm regarding the current discussion on the Anakin Skywalker talk page, I must caution you about trying to enforce your theory about his status as the Chosen One. At the end of the day, your theory is just that – a theory. An interesting one, and one worthy of debate in the proper forum. However, the talk page for Anakin Skywalker is not that place until a canon source explicitly states that he is not the Chosen One. While the discussion has not reached an acrimonious level, it has the potential to and I do not want to see that happening at all. - Sir Cavalier of One
(Squadron channel) 17:52, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
- As the Anakin Skywalker page is trying to depict Anakin as canonical fact, it is the appropriate form to discuss the legitimacy of this claim. To claim that one caption of an image is enough of canonical source to back the claim he is is just being ridiculous. Go to the database bios of both Anakin and Vader and it will state nothing explictily stating he is the Chosen One, only that some thought he was. That is all I am saying that needs to be changed at this time, that instead of trying to say it is canonical fact he was, just state that some thought he was. Give me more than just a caption of an image on a canonical source stating that the prophecy was completely fulfilled by Anakin, and then you guys will have a leg to stand on. Until then, what I am asking for is nothing beyond what any other canon material states. TonyPettengill (talk) 19:39, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
- It's not going to happen, for reasons that have already been explained to you by myself and the others. JRT2010 (talk) 19:44, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
- Thought I would just let you know that I just received an e-mail directly from starwars.com and they said they can not directly state whether or not the captions are considered canon. If you would like to see the e-mail for yourself, I have no problem forwarding it to you. So considering that it cannot be confirmed that the caption is canon, stating that Anakin is the chosen one as fact is only a matter of opinion and not based off of canonical material. The only canonical fact about Anakin and the prophecy is that some believed him to be the chosen one. Like it or not, what I have been telling you to people it needs to be changed to is considered more canonical than what you are leaving it as. TonyPettengill (talk) 22:32, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Sounds like they didn't answer your question one way or the other. In which case you should know our position will likely remain the same, and any attempt to "remove" Anakin as the Chosen One without a source, stating he is not the Chosen One, will be reverted as speculation/unverified information. JRT2010 (talk) 22:36, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Actually they did answer my question, because it confirms that the captions on the images cannot be used as a confirmed source for canon material. Your position has been to use sources that are confirmed as canon, and those captions cannot be confirmed as such, therefore saying he is the chosen one should be required to be removed and be replaced with "Some believed Anakin Skywalker to be the Chosen One in the prophecy.". That statement and only that statement involving Anakin and the prophecy is backed by confirmed canonical sources. Stating he is the chosen one is using speculated/unverified information. Face it, it cannot be verified that he is the Chosen One and it should not say it on the site. It should only state that some believed him to be, and that is it. TonyPettengill (talk) 22:46, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- If they didn't specifically state that the image captions aren't canon, then all you still have is what you started out with—a theory. The Databank is a canonical source and the images come straight from the Databank. Hence, we treat them as canonical information unless Lucasfilm confirms otherwise or retcons the information at a later date. According to you, they said and I quote, "They can not directly state whether or not the captions are considered canon." It seems like they dodged your question by not giving you a direct yes or no answer. In which case, I see no point in discussing this further. If or when a canonical source specifically states that Anakin is not the Chosen One, I'll change the article myself (assuming someone else doesn't first). Until then, I suggest you find another way to contribute to Wookieepedia, assuming you've decided to remain with our (to quote you again) "messed up" community. JRT2010 (talk) 22:58, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- They also didn't specifically state that the image captions are canon, which means you are still using unconfirmed material and calling it canon. http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker is a canonical source that states exactly what it should be saying on this site, " Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.". This statement does not confirm nor deny that Anakin was the Chosen One, and all VERIFIED CANON MATERIAL states this. Only NON-VERIFIED CANON MATERIAL states that he is the Chosen One. And as I stated earlier, and I quote "I have no problem forwarding it to you" if you would like to see the e-mail for yourself so you don't have to just take my word for it. But of course by seeing the e-mail for yourself then you will be seeing evidence that clearly states the images cannot be confirmed as canonical material, which would then require you to change the content of the page to what I have been stating this whole time that it needs to be changed to, which by the way is not theory but backed by mounds of canonical evidence. Yes I have a theory that it is not Anakin but Rey who is the Chosen One, but that is not what I am wanting you to change the content to say. I am wanting you to change it to what is backed by canon material, that he was believed to be the Chosen One who would bring balance to the force. That is canon. TonyPettengill (talk) 23:11, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- I fully acknowledge that the Anakin Skywalker Databank entry is canon. As I've said, the Databank is a canonical source, including the image captions attached to the biography gallery section, two of which you choose not to acknowledge. However, it doesn't work that way around here. We don't choose which parts of a character's Databank profile are canon or not, simply to suit our interpretations or fan theories. We treat all of its in-universe information as canon unless officially confirmed otherwise by Lucasfilm. If you want to scan the email and post it as an image on this site for all of us to see, then go ahead. But if your description of its content is as you described, I doubt others will be any more persuaded than I. JRT2010 (talk) 23:18, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Where exactly does the image need to be posted it. I would like for everyone to see that the images are not confirmed canonical material that way it proves what I have been saying that you are using unconfirmed canonical material and claiming it as canonical fact, when it is not. I would also like for others, not just you, to comment as well. I frankly am getting sick and tired of you responding to everything I have to say. I already know that you are too stubborn to listen to reason because it disproves your views of what took place in the Star Wars films. BTW if the captions and the profiles are both considered canon, why do they contradict each other? TonyPettengill (talk) 23:23, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Images can be uploaded here. By the way, regardless of your issue with myself or Wookieepedia's Sourcing policy, around here we uphold a the policy of civility. This comment you made can be viewed as a borderline personal attack, which breaches our no personal attacks policy. In the future remember to remain civil during conversations with other Wookieepedians, especially when in dispute to avoid further escalation of the dispute. JRT2010 (talk) 23:43, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- I have waited over a year to see if you guys are willing to listen yet. I have gone back to the starwars.com page and looked thru the databank again, and they have even changed the captions where none of the captions state Anakin fulfilled the prophecy. The only thing the databank states anywhere is that he was thought by some to be the chosen one. So unless you can provide anything else confirmed as canonical source stating balance was brought to the force with Anakin, I would like to know if you are willing to change the Anakin Skywalker page to state that he only was thought by some to be the chosen one instead of stating he fulfilled the prophecy. The actual prophecy we now know it to be "First comes the day, then comes the night. After the darkness shines through the light. The difference, they say, is only made right by the resolving of the gray through refined Jedi sight." Journal of the Whills 7:477. Here is a very good translation of what it says. First comes the formation of the Jedi, then the formation of the Sith. The Sith will eventually overpower the Jedi. The difference is in reference to an imbalance of power from one side to the other, and balance in the force can only be achieved by removing the Jedi and the Sith and going back to the Greys. This obviously was not accomplished in Return of the Jedi, which means the prophecy was never fulfilled. Everything that has been created so far is pointing to an end in Episode 9 in which both Jedi and Sith are destroyed and force users are back to being Greys. Yoda stated in The Last Jedi that it is time for the ways of the Jedi to end, which I see as him stating that he now sees the truth about how the force was to be used, each force wielder using light and dark sides equally. I don't think Yoda controlled the elements to set fire to the tree, but was actually able to use force lightning (a dark side ability) to strike the tree. So unless you are willing to provide links to proven canonical sources stating the force was/is in balance and was done so by Anakin Skywalker, and I still have the e-mail stating from starwars.com saying that the captions on the images cannot be confirmed as canonical, I would like to see it removed as saying Anakin is the chosen one or give me a logical reason as to why non-canonical sources are being used to make this claim.TonyPettengill (talk) 04:04, May 27, 2018 (UTC)
- Well I am not being allowed to upload the image as I get the following message "Due to upload abuse, adding or replacing files is limited to users who have achieved a threshold number of edits and account lifetime, and have a confirmed email address in their user preferences. Please find something constructive to do until you reach this threshold. Please note that spamming unproductive edits to reach this threshold will cause your account to be completely blocked from editing. For more information, please contact an administrator via IRC.". So now what? If you want to view my comment as a personal attack, that is all on you. I could say that all the comments towards me that stated me wanting to change the page to only say "Anakin was believed by some to be the Chosen One" is just a theory are personal attacks as well. That statement isn't theory, but fact based off of confirmed canonical evidence. My comment was to let you know that I would rather get opinions from other users rather than from just you. I think I have the right to say that I would rather hear from other admins than from just you all the time. TonyPettengill (talk) 00:11, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- So JRT2020, I see the changes you made to the page were still based off of non-canonical material. It was only the Jedi's interpretation of the prophecy that the Chosen One was suppose to destroy the Sith not join them. In fact in none of the movies are we given what the prophecy actually states. The closest we get is that from the Journal of the Whills, which I quoted in a previous comment. The only canonical fact we can actually make regarding Anakin and the Chosen One is that some believed him to be the Chosen One. To say anything more than that requires canonical evidence to support the claim. I have not seen any canonical evidence to state he is the Chosen One. So please provide the evidence or remove the claim. Is it really that much to ask for?TonyPettengill (talk) 13:35, June 3, 2018 (UTC)
- Images can be uploaded here. By the way, regardless of your issue with myself or Wookieepedia's Sourcing policy, around here we uphold a the policy of civility. This comment you made can be viewed as a borderline personal attack, which breaches our no personal attacks policy. In the future remember to remain civil during conversations with other Wookieepedians, especially when in dispute to avoid further escalation of the dispute. JRT2010 (talk) 23:43, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Where exactly does the image need to be posted it. I would like for everyone to see that the images are not confirmed canonical material that way it proves what I have been saying that you are using unconfirmed canonical material and claiming it as canonical fact, when it is not. I would also like for others, not just you, to comment as well. I frankly am getting sick and tired of you responding to everything I have to say. I already know that you are too stubborn to listen to reason because it disproves your views of what took place in the Star Wars films. BTW if the captions and the profiles are both considered canon, why do they contradict each other? TonyPettengill (talk) 23:23, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- I fully acknowledge that the Anakin Skywalker Databank entry is canon. As I've said, the Databank is a canonical source, including the image captions attached to the biography gallery section, two of which you choose not to acknowledge. However, it doesn't work that way around here. We don't choose which parts of a character's Databank profile are canon or not, simply to suit our interpretations or fan theories. We treat all of its in-universe information as canon unless officially confirmed otherwise by Lucasfilm. If you want to scan the email and post it as an image on this site for all of us to see, then go ahead. But if your description of its content is as you described, I doubt others will be any more persuaded than I. JRT2010 (talk) 23:18, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- They also didn't specifically state that the image captions are canon, which means you are still using unconfirmed material and calling it canon. http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker is a canonical source that states exactly what it should be saying on this site, " Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.". This statement does not confirm nor deny that Anakin was the Chosen One, and all VERIFIED CANON MATERIAL states this. Only NON-VERIFIED CANON MATERIAL states that he is the Chosen One. And as I stated earlier, and I quote "I have no problem forwarding it to you" if you would like to see the e-mail for yourself so you don't have to just take my word for it. But of course by seeing the e-mail for yourself then you will be seeing evidence that clearly states the images cannot be confirmed as canonical material, which would then require you to change the content of the page to what I have been stating this whole time that it needs to be changed to, which by the way is not theory but backed by mounds of canonical evidence. Yes I have a theory that it is not Anakin but Rey who is the Chosen One, but that is not what I am wanting you to change the content to say. I am wanting you to change it to what is backed by canon material, that he was believed to be the Chosen One who would bring balance to the force. That is canon. TonyPettengill (talk) 23:11, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- If they didn't specifically state that the image captions aren't canon, then all you still have is what you started out with—a theory. The Databank is a canonical source and the images come straight from the Databank. Hence, we treat them as canonical information unless Lucasfilm confirms otherwise or retcons the information at a later date. According to you, they said and I quote, "They can not directly state whether or not the captions are considered canon." It seems like they dodged your question by not giving you a direct yes or no answer. In which case, I see no point in discussing this further. If or when a canonical source specifically states that Anakin is not the Chosen One, I'll change the article myself (assuming someone else doesn't first). Until then, I suggest you find another way to contribute to Wookieepedia, assuming you've decided to remain with our (to quote you again) "messed up" community. JRT2010 (talk) 22:58, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Actually they did answer my question, because it confirms that the captions on the images cannot be used as a confirmed source for canon material. Your position has been to use sources that are confirmed as canon, and those captions cannot be confirmed as such, therefore saying he is the chosen one should be required to be removed and be replaced with "Some believed Anakin Skywalker to be the Chosen One in the prophecy.". That statement and only that statement involving Anakin and the prophecy is backed by confirmed canonical sources. Stating he is the chosen one is using speculated/unverified information. Face it, it cannot be verified that he is the Chosen One and it should not say it on the site. It should only state that some believed him to be, and that is it. TonyPettengill (talk) 22:46, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Sounds like they didn't answer your question one way or the other. In which case you should know our position will likely remain the same, and any attempt to "remove" Anakin as the Chosen One without a source, stating he is not the Chosen One, will be reverted as speculation/unverified information. JRT2010 (talk) 22:36, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Thought I would just let you know that I just received an e-mail directly from starwars.com and they said they can not directly state whether or not the captions are considered canon. If you would like to see the e-mail for yourself, I have no problem forwarding it to you. So considering that it cannot be confirmed that the caption is canon, stating that Anakin is the chosen one as fact is only a matter of opinion and not based off of canonical material. The only canonical fact about Anakin and the prophecy is that some believed him to be the chosen one. Like it or not, what I have been telling you to people it needs to be changed to is considered more canonical than what you are leaving it as. TonyPettengill (talk) 22:32, March 4, 2017 (UTC)
- It's not going to happen, for reasons that have already been explained to you by myself and the others. JRT2010 (talk) 19:44, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
Talk Page comments
Like it says in the Welcome template at the top of your talk page, do not remove talk page and forum comments, including your own (or mine for that matter), like you did here as they are part of the public record. JRT2010 (talk) 19:39, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
- I haven't recently removed anything that I am aware of. Right now I am using my phone and when I tried to publish something it stated thatit couldn't be updated, maybe because you had published your comment while I was working on mine. So if something of yours got deleted in the process, it wasn't my doing. The only time I had deleted something I posted was because it got posted in the wrong location and so I went to fix that. I should have at least the right to do that. But if anything was deleted in the last few hours, I am not aware of how that happened. TonyPettengill (talk) 19:59, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
Leaving this messed up community
So even after these people claim that all the information on this site has to be backed by credible canonical sources, they are not willing to change or fix something that they will even admit is only speculation. I didn't want to join a fan fiction site that can't distinguish the difference canonical and non-canonical material. It has been determined that there is no possibility in trusting that the info they say is canon is actually canon. If anyone in the future reads this, I warn you to stay away.
Return of the Jedi: Beware the Power of the Dark Side!
I should have mentioned this source before, but frankly my first thought was to use the Databank as I believed it was sufficient enough, and still do for that matter. Nevertheless, it is stated in Return of the Jedi: Beware the Power of the Dark Side!—the third volume in a new children's series that retells the Star Wars original trilogy—confirms what those image captions do as well, that Anakin fulfilled his destiny by bringing balance to the Force. The line states:
- In the end, Anakin did what no Jedi—not Luke, not Obi-Wan, not even Yoda—could do. In killing his master—the mighty Sith Lord Darth Sidious, known to the galaxy as Emperor Palpatine—Anakin fulfilled his destiny and restored balance to the Force. And so, though the galaxy will not honor him…Luke will.
It was published by Disney–Lucasfilm Press and is regarded as canon. You can read the section I am referring to here. JRT2010 (talk) 00:18, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Regarded as canon by whom? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon This wiki site has a list of what is considered canon, and I don't see these books listed. Even on http://books.disney.com/book/beware-the-power-of-the-dark-side/ doesn't state it as canon but does state the content contains a unique perspective from the author. http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-adaptation-covers-revealed-presenting-the-new-original-trilogy Also states here that "But these are more than just mere retellings from this top talent; these are fresh interpretations — true to the films but filtered through each author’s vision." which is actually stating that they are using their own visions for how the stories are told. In all honesty, the only source that states this book is canon is your own site, and considering I am questioning how canonical the information on this site is, using this site as a source is not the best. And if you was to read the entire quote from the book in the context it is written, you would see that it is the author's perspective of what took place. When someone says "think of this" they are actually saying "Here is my theory to consider". So once again, the quote is someone's perspective of what took place, just like the captions on those images, and cannot be considered canon. The only canonical material still is the databank of Anakin Skywalker where it states that some believed him to be the Chosen One. Face it, you are not going to be able to convince me that Anakin is the Chosen One as canon, not just because your sources are unconfirmed as canon, but because it isn't. TonyPettengill (talk) 01:40, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Nor can you convince me (or anyone else here, it would seem) that your speculation is canon. Regardless, I do not need to convince you. The article will not change simply because you disagree with the canonicity of the sources that do not support your theory. You can either accept that or find something else to do with your time. JRT2010 (talk) 02:13, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Considering you don't seem to allow anyone else to reply about how the sources are not confirmed as canon, what gives you the right to say I haven't been able to convince anyone else? How about you make it where I can post the image of the e-mail I received and allow other admins to comment to me about how it doesn't mean anything. My theory hasn't been in discussion, it is your theory. I have only been stating what is canon, that some believed that Anakin was the Chosen One, but it is your theory that is unconfirmed by actual canon sources whether he did or not. If Anakin was the real Chosen One and brought balance to the force, than why is it not anywhere on HIS databank page? TonyPettengill (talk) 02:19, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- As you still maintain the position that the official canon sources in question are actually not canon, I see no point in having further discussion on this. I've told you how it works around here and that any attempt to change the article without a credible source to back up the edit will be reverted as speculation and contradiction of canonical fact. That's good enough for me at this point. Having said that, you can take your issue to the Administrators' noticeboard and see what they have to say, but just so you know—Cavalier One is an administrator and he essentially told you the same thing I've been trying to get you to realize; that your theory is just that, a theory. JRT2010 (talk) 02:40, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- How is stating "Anakin was believed by some to be the Chosen One prophesied to bring balance to the force" a theory? The databank page for Anakin Skywalker from starwars.com states that comment. Nothing on Anakin's page states that he was confirmed as the Chosen One. If it is canon, then why is it not on Anakin's page? Why do you refuse to answer this question? If it was canon, it would be there, not 2 captions on images that cannot be confirmed as canon or books that are written from the author's perspective of what took place. If this was indeed a canonical fact, it would be found in more places that are confirmed by everyone as canon, not just you? It should have even stated it in the opening crawl of Episode VII, but it didn't. Instead of just saying "Luke Skywalker has vanished." it could have stated "15 years after his father restored balance to the force, Luke Skywalker has vanished.". So your next response to me better be a valid reason as to why no where on the Anakin Skywalker databank page does it say something along the lines of "After turning on his former master, Anakin's final heroic act saved the galaxy and restored balance to the force, as stated in the prophecy.". TonyPettengill (talk) 03:01, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Anakin Skywalker's Databank does not say he wasn't the Chosen One either. But two image captions from the same website do confirm that he restored the balance, and so does Return of the Jedi: Beware the Power of the Dark Side!. Now, as I said before, go to the administrators' noticeboard and see if they are willing to resolve this dispute. JRT2010 (talk) 03:05, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- And as I have stated I am more than willing to forward the e-mail to you that states those captions cannot be confirmed as canonical material, which is a REQUIREMENT for this site. I also stated and quoted that the book is full of personal perspectives from the author, therefore shouldn't be considered canon. And for the millionth time if it was actual canon IT WOULD BE ON HIS DATABANK PAGE! I have posted on the administrator's noticeboard and I suggest you stay away from the post because I don't need to hear any more of YOUR opinion. The only PROVEN canon fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One, everything else is unconfirmed sources and speculation.TonyPettengill (talk) 03:31, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Civility, Tony… JRT2010 (talk) 03:33, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- I really wish there was a way to just block you from commenting on my profile. I have tried being civil, but you want to do nothing but push buttons. You are incapable of listening. I told you that I am tired of hearing your opinion, but you keep coming back. You can't answer simple questions, you can't understand that your sources are unconfirmed as canon, and you just have to keep commenting instead of letting someone else come here and post their comment. But as I stated, I have already made the post for the admins to read, and I want you to stay away from it because I don't need to read your opinions there either. Do you realize that as it is a canonical source that only states some thought him to be the chosen one, I could make that edit myself, site the source, and be done with it? It is proven canon on many sources at that, more reliable sources than for your theory. But as I am new here I haven't done that and was wanting the opinion of the admins, not you, as to the change. Granted the one admin did state without confirmed sources it cannot be changed, however my e-mail stating your sources are not confirmed and the only confirmed sources state what I have been saying this entire time came after that comment. So how about you leave me alone already, otherwise I will consider any comment from you from this point out as personal attacks. TonyPettengill (talk) 03:43, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Civility, Tony… JRT2010 (talk) 03:33, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- And as I have stated I am more than willing to forward the e-mail to you that states those captions cannot be confirmed as canonical material, which is a REQUIREMENT for this site. I also stated and quoted that the book is full of personal perspectives from the author, therefore shouldn't be considered canon. And for the millionth time if it was actual canon IT WOULD BE ON HIS DATABANK PAGE! I have posted on the administrator's noticeboard and I suggest you stay away from the post because I don't need to hear any more of YOUR opinion. The only PROVEN canon fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One, everything else is unconfirmed sources and speculation.TonyPettengill (talk) 03:31, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Anakin Skywalker's Databank does not say he wasn't the Chosen One either. But two image captions from the same website do confirm that he restored the balance, and so does Return of the Jedi: Beware the Power of the Dark Side!. Now, as I said before, go to the administrators' noticeboard and see if they are willing to resolve this dispute. JRT2010 (talk) 03:05, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- How is stating "Anakin was believed by some to be the Chosen One prophesied to bring balance to the force" a theory? The databank page for Anakin Skywalker from starwars.com states that comment. Nothing on Anakin's page states that he was confirmed as the Chosen One. If it is canon, then why is it not on Anakin's page? Why do you refuse to answer this question? If it was canon, it would be there, not 2 captions on images that cannot be confirmed as canon or books that are written from the author's perspective of what took place. If this was indeed a canonical fact, it would be found in more places that are confirmed by everyone as canon, not just you? It should have even stated it in the opening crawl of Episode VII, but it didn't. Instead of just saying "Luke Skywalker has vanished." it could have stated "15 years after his father restored balance to the force, Luke Skywalker has vanished.". So your next response to me better be a valid reason as to why no where on the Anakin Skywalker databank page does it say something along the lines of "After turning on his former master, Anakin's final heroic act saved the galaxy and restored balance to the force, as stated in the prophecy.". TonyPettengill (talk) 03:01, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- As you still maintain the position that the official canon sources in question are actually not canon, I see no point in having further discussion on this. I've told you how it works around here and that any attempt to change the article without a credible source to back up the edit will be reverted as speculation and contradiction of canonical fact. That's good enough for me at this point. Having said that, you can take your issue to the Administrators' noticeboard and see what they have to say, but just so you know—Cavalier One is an administrator and he essentially told you the same thing I've been trying to get you to realize; that your theory is just that, a theory. JRT2010 (talk) 02:40, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Considering you don't seem to allow anyone else to reply about how the sources are not confirmed as canon, what gives you the right to say I haven't been able to convince anyone else? How about you make it where I can post the image of the e-mail I received and allow other admins to comment to me about how it doesn't mean anything. My theory hasn't been in discussion, it is your theory. I have only been stating what is canon, that some believed that Anakin was the Chosen One, but it is your theory that is unconfirmed by actual canon sources whether he did or not. If Anakin was the real Chosen One and brought balance to the force, than why is it not anywhere on HIS databank page? TonyPettengill (talk) 02:19, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Nor can you convince me (or anyone else here, it would seem) that your speculation is canon. Regardless, I do not need to convince you. The article will not change simply because you disagree with the canonicity of the sources that do not support your theory. You can either accept that or find something else to do with your time. JRT2010 (talk) 02:13, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
Admins afraid of evidence proving their sources are unconfirmed as canon
Posting the entire conversation here because it won't surprise me if they archive it soon for no one to be able to see in the future. "{{Nbtop}} If any of you have been paying attention the last couple days, I have been trying to reason with JRT2010 in what is considered actual canon and not just a theory. This discussion involves the validity of Anakin Skywalker being considered the Chosen One in the prophecy. Now granted I have my own theory as to who the Chosen One is, and that is because there is no confirmed canonical source as to state that it is Anakin. So far the sources JRT2010 have given me are 2 captions on images from starwars.com, both of which are not on Anakin Skywalker's databank page, and a children's book with every description stating that even though the book follows the movie it does contain the author's own perspective of what took place. I have recently received an e-mail, that I am more than happy to share with everyone, from a representative of starwars.com that states they cannot confirm nor deny whether the captions on the images are considered canonical. This should be more than enough to discredit those captions as it states the canonicity of the captions cannont be verified. As I stated about the children's book Star Wars Return of the Jedi: Beware of the Dark Side, it contains opinions from the author of what took place, which means it also cannot be verified as a canon source. All confirmed canon sources, including the databank page for Anakin Skywalker on starwars.com states, "Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force.". This doesn't confirm nor deny the possibility that Anakin was the Chosen One, but this statement alone is the only thing that is considered canon. I feel that if you want to keep information on this site as canonical as possible, then any information on this site regarding Anakin Skywalker and the prophecy should state what it says on the databank page, and nothing more. I have tried to upload an image of the e-mail for people to be able to view it, but apparently I don't have the proper permissions to do so. I do believe if you were to view it, you would see it as a valid source confirming that the captions cannot be used as canonical sources. I wouldn't have any problems forwarding the e-mail directly to any of you as well so you can verify the authenticity of it as well, as I know things like that can be doctored. I am not asking for my own theory to be posted on this site, but only correct content that is not confirmed by valid sources. TonyPettengill (talk) 03:17, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- I would like to give you one other piece of evidence that should be enough evidence to settle this once and for all. When a prophecy is actually fulfilled, it is suppose to last forever and not need to be fulfilled yet again. In the case of the Star Wars prophecy, it had been around for thousands of years. In that time period, there was not one time that a Chosen One emerged to fulfill it. However if we are meant to believe that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy, then why is there still an imbalance in the force? How do I know that there is an imbalance? Well Episode 7 tells us there is. Luke has vanished, which means there are no Jedi. Lor San Tekka stated to Poe "This will begin to make things right. I've traveled too far, seen too much, to ignore the despair in the galaxy. With no Jedi there can be no balance in the force.". This is said right after handing Poe a piece of the map that leads to Luke Skywalker's whereabouts. There is clearly an imbalance in the force, which means the prophecy was never fulfilled. So besides removing content that is coming from unverified supposed canon sources, this here should be definitive enough in saying Anakin was not the Chosen One, or at the very least that the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled. It would be stupid if they did this, but I guess there is always a chance they could bring Anakin back as a force ghost and somehow fulfill the prophecy that way, but I highly doubt that. TonyPettengill (talk) 06:02, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- We've known since 2005 that Anakin is the Chosen One. Until Lucasfilm says otherwise, we're not going to change that. Please move on from this needless debate. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 16:00, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- In 2005 the story was considered complete and therefore he could have been considered the Chosen One. However, today, the story is not over, there is an imbalance in the force, which means the prophecy was not fulfilled. Denying this does not make it false. It just means your theory of what took place is no longer canon. It is a well known fact that George Lucas was done making the films, and even in 2009 had no intent of making 7-9, which would make Anakin the Chosen One at that point. When he made the decision to sell the rights for Star Wars, he decided to start writting a script for 7 in order to increase the value to make more money. Now that 7 is released and they clearly state at the beginning that there is an imbalance in the force, Anakin can no longer be called the Chosen One. By sayig he is is using unconfirmed sources and stating it as canon, when it is not. This is not a pointless debate, as it directly clashes with the continuation of actual canon story after 6. The story is not over, and will not be over until the prophecy is fulfilled. Saying otherwiseis only spreading your own theories/fan fiction. TonyPettengill (talk) 17:06, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- You're drawing conclusions that don't fit the facts. As per exactly what we were told about the "Chosen One" throughout the prequel era, he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the Force. Nowhere was it ever stated that the Force would be in balance forevermore afterward. If I say "I will buy a car," do so, and then sell it 5 years later, that doesn't invalidate the fulfillment of the original statement. I did buy a car, exactly as I said. I never said I would keep that car in perpetuity. — DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:22, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Those who know anything about prophecies knows that they are only fulfilled once. Give me any prophecy that was fulfilled more than once. In fact give me an actual proven canonical source of what the prophecy actually states. I would bet that the prophecy doesn't mention Sith specifically. In fact Yoda even stated thatthe prophecy could have been misinterpreted. So to state that you know everything about the prophecy based off the prequels when the original text isn't ever provided, then your comment is nothing more than theory as well. It would also make more sense for the prophecy to only be fulfilled once. For thousands of years that the prophecy was around, not once before the prequels was there ever a Chosen One. So why now does the prophecy need to be fulfilled twice in the matter of a few years, if Anakin was the Chosen One? Also it says Chosen One not Chosen Few, meanig it will be one to do it, not more than one. BTW, your car scenario doesn't fit. It isn't a prophecy to say that you will buy a car. A prophecy also indicates a prediction with it, like saying you will buy a car and it will be the only car you ever need. There a predicition is made that you will need only the one car. If you buy one car and then a few years later buy another, then that first car didn't fulfill the prophecy/prediction of being the only car you ever need. It isn't a theory that a prophecy is something that will last forever once it is fulfilled, it is a common fact most people know. But the problem here is not whether we believe or don't believe the prophecy was fulfilled, the problem is you are basing your conclusion and information on this site on unconfirmed canonical material. The only statement that is canonical fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One. I have verification that the captions on the images of starwars.com are unconfirmed canonical statements. The books also are described as having interpretations from the authors of what took place, which means they contain theories. It is canonical fact that in 7 there is an imbalance in the force, which means that there is no confirmed canonical evidence that the prophecy was ever fulfilled. All I am asking is for you to use confirmed canonical sources, and thus far you are not on this subject. Even in the original script it says nothing about the force being in balance at the end of 6. So instead of just trying to state I am wrong, provide a valid source, otherwise all you are doing is stating your own theories. TonyPettengill (talk) 19:41, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- Multiple users have responded to your posts and provided you with several sources, all whom are considered canonical per our Canon policy, that confirm Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One. If you can't accept this, I strongly suggest you take your opinions, which are speculation at this point, elsewhere instead of continuing this debate. If you choose not to heed this warning, the administration may sanction you for disruption of the site. Imperators II(Talk) 10:26, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
- I have a source stating that 2 of the sources you are using cannot be confirmed as canonical sources, but you people will not allow me to share it with you. And if you guys had half a brain to actually read the descriptions of the children books that you are claiming as canonical sources, when it states that the books contain the author's interpretation of what happened, then you would come to the same conclusion about those books that I have, that they are using speculation and contain the theories of the authors. Your sources are not confirmed canonical sources, PERIOD. You guys are just too afraid of actually reading the email I received from starwars.com to see that they said those captions cannot be confirmed as canon. No other site, only your own, consideres those "sources" as canon. At this point I don't give a fuck if you guys decide to ban my account. All of you are acting like little fucking cry babies because you can't handle the proven fact that there is absolutely no proven canonical material that states Anakin brought balance to the force. I have proven your sources to be unconfirmed, but you assholes can't handle it. The only canonical fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One. That is it. That is what the site should be changed to say, otherwise all you are doing is stating your own theories and trying to claim them as fact. When they come out and state that Rey is the Chosen One, and it proves your theory wrong, then what? You would have to make changes that would cause contradictions to the site. If you changed the info to what i have been fucking telling you to change it to, then you won't have to change it in the future, but will only have to add information. After the release of 7, the end to the story no longer existed, which means there was no balance to the force, and therefore the prophecy was never fulfilled. This is on every canonical source that references the prophecy with episode 7. If Anakin was the Chosen One, something on his databank page should be able to confirm that, but nothing on his page does. Why is that? Maybe because the information on the bio is what is considered canon and the captions are only descriptions based off of individuals interpretations/theories of what took place. But you are too fucking scared to admit that because then it means having to admit that Anakin never brought balance to the force and everything you thought you knew about Star Wars is wrong. If you guys weren't afraid, you would give me a way to share the e-mail with you that proves your sources are unconfirmed. But instead you have to hide from the truth because it scares you. TonyPettengill (talk) 12:42, March 6, 2017 (UTC)"
- Multiple users have responded to your posts and provided you with several sources, all whom are considered canonical per our Canon policy, that confirm Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One. If you can't accept this, I strongly suggest you take your opinions, which are speculation at this point, elsewhere instead of continuing this debate. If you choose not to heed this warning, the administration may sanction you for disruption of the site. Imperators II(Talk) 10:26, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
- Those who know anything about prophecies knows that they are only fulfilled once. Give me any prophecy that was fulfilled more than once. In fact give me an actual proven canonical source of what the prophecy actually states. I would bet that the prophecy doesn't mention Sith specifically. In fact Yoda even stated thatthe prophecy could have been misinterpreted. So to state that you know everything about the prophecy based off the prequels when the original text isn't ever provided, then your comment is nothing more than theory as well. It would also make more sense for the prophecy to only be fulfilled once. For thousands of years that the prophecy was around, not once before the prequels was there ever a Chosen One. So why now does the prophecy need to be fulfilled twice in the matter of a few years, if Anakin was the Chosen One? Also it says Chosen One not Chosen Few, meanig it will be one to do it, not more than one. BTW, your car scenario doesn't fit. It isn't a prophecy to say that you will buy a car. A prophecy also indicates a prediction with it, like saying you will buy a car and it will be the only car you ever need. There a predicition is made that you will need only the one car. If you buy one car and then a few years later buy another, then that first car didn't fulfill the prophecy/prediction of being the only car you ever need. It isn't a theory that a prophecy is something that will last forever once it is fulfilled, it is a common fact most people know. But the problem here is not whether we believe or don't believe the prophecy was fulfilled, the problem is you are basing your conclusion and information on this site on unconfirmed canonical material. The only statement that is canonical fact is that some believed him to be the Chosen One. I have verification that the captions on the images of starwars.com are unconfirmed canonical statements. The books also are described as having interpretations from the authors of what took place, which means they contain theories. It is canonical fact that in 7 there is an imbalance in the force, which means that there is no confirmed canonical evidence that the prophecy was ever fulfilled. All I am asking is for you to use confirmed canonical sources, and thus far you are not on this subject. Even in the original script it says nothing about the force being in balance at the end of 6. So instead of just trying to state I am wrong, provide a valid source, otherwise all you are doing is stating your own theories. TonyPettengill (talk) 19:41, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- You're drawing conclusions that don't fit the facts. As per exactly what we were told about the "Chosen One" throughout the prequel era, he destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the Force. Nowhere was it ever stated that the Force would be in balance forevermore afterward. If I say "I will buy a car," do so, and then sell it 5 years later, that doesn't invalidate the fulfillment of the original statement. I did buy a car, exactly as I said. I never said I would keep that car in perpetuity. — DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:22, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- In 2005 the story was considered complete and therefore he could have been considered the Chosen One. However, today, the story is not over, there is an imbalance in the force, which means the prophecy was not fulfilled. Denying this does not make it false. It just means your theory of what took place is no longer canon. It is a well known fact that George Lucas was done making the films, and even in 2009 had no intent of making 7-9, which would make Anakin the Chosen One at that point. When he made the decision to sell the rights for Star Wars, he decided to start writting a script for 7 in order to increase the value to make more money. Now that 7 is released and they clearly state at the beginning that there is an imbalance in the force, Anakin can no longer be called the Chosen One. By sayig he is is using unconfirmed sources and stating it as canon, when it is not. This is not a pointless debate, as it directly clashes with the continuation of actual canon story after 6. The story is not over, and will not be over until the prophecy is fulfilled. Saying otherwiseis only spreading your own theories/fan fiction. TonyPettengill (talk) 17:06, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
- We've known since 2005 that Anakin is the Chosen One. Until Lucasfilm says otherwise, we're not going to change that. Please move on from this needless debate. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 16:00, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
Cooldown Block
You have been blocked from editing for for 1 week due to general disruption surrounding your theory regarding Anakin Skywalker, as well as profanity and insults aimed at users in general. To contest this block, please contact the blocking administrator with the reason you believe the block is unjustified. Sir Cavalier of One(Squadron channel) 15:36, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
- Had any of you given me the ability to share the e-mail I received that states the captions on the images of the databank page cannot be verified as canon, this would never have gone as far as it has. But you so desperately need to hold onto Anakin as being the Chosen One that you are unwilling to look at any evidence that would give the suggestion he isn't. How about the fact that the original text of the prophecy has never been seen? All we know of the prophecy is the Jedi's interpetation of the prophecy, that even Yoda admitted could be wrong. Without the original text of the prophecy to know what it actually states, there is absolutely no way you can confirm that Anakin was the Chosen One, and can only state that some believed he was the Chosen One. That doesn't take away the possibility of statinng later that he is the Chosen One, or take away from any canonical material. To say he is the Chosen One without showing the original prophecy, you are using your own unconfirmed fanfic theories on this site. TonyPettengill (talk) 14:57, March 18, 2017 (UTC)
Gallery comment
I found a few more images of this background character: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jess on a site called Slave Leia Wiki, but i haven't been able to transfer them. --Blockade3 (talk) 23:23, May 1, 2018 (UTC)