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Categorization
Hello. It's rather impractical and, worse, confusing to alphabetically categorize short stories that begin with "A" according to the first letter of the title's second word. No one is going to search for "A Very Special Meal" under "V," for example. It's probably better that you don't keep doing this. Thanks. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:19, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
- The same goes for those beginning with "The." There aren't so many short stories beginning with "The" that makes this necessary, and it has the potential to become confusing for people who might not find what they're looking for as a result. Please stop. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:25, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
- I have issued a temporary, two-hour block on your account because you seem intent on ignoring these efforts to communicate with you. The changes you're making have potential and problematic site-wide ramifications, which means they should really be discussed with the rest of the community. If you're willing to do so, that would be best your best course of action here once your block expires. Thank you for your cooperation. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:35, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
- In response to the first and second points:
- It is quite correct, and not the least bit confusing to someone who uses the English language correctly, to alphabetize lists by ignoring definite and indefinite articles (a, an, & the). Quoting from English articles on Wikipedia, "In sorting titles and phrases alphabetically, articles are usually excluded from consideration, since being so common makes them more of a hindrance than a help in finding a desired item. For example, The Comedy of Errors is alphabetized before A Midsummer Night's Dream, because the and a are ignored and comedy alphabetizes before midsummer. In an index, the former work might be written "Comedy of Errors, The", with the article moved to the end."
- The organization of the Short stories category, with respect to articles is horribly inconsistent, my own edits notwithstanding. To wit:
- 22 titles start with the article "A". Of these, only 6 are placed in the "A" section, while the remaining 16 are correctly alphabetized by the next word in their titles. "The" actually starts many more titles, numbering 49 in all. Fully 31 of these are correctly placed, using the second word, leaving 18 incorrectly alphabetized by "The". In total, there are 71 titles starting with "A" or "The", 24 of them placed as you suggest, 47 placed as publishing professionals would list them.
- Worse than just these numbers, there are several pairs/groups of these titles whose second word is the same, yet are not both/all alphabetized using the same method!
- The Battle of Turak IV is placed with the "The" grouping, while The Battle of Cadinth is listed under "B".
- The Last Battle of Colonel Jace Malcom is placed as you'd prefer, while no less than three titles starting with "The Last..." ignore "The" at their start.
- While there are a couple other examples, the most glaring is the stories which bookend the DarkStryder Campaign. The Saga Begins is placed correctly, under "S", while The Saga Nears Its End - from the same series - is listed by "The". --k1darkknight (talk) 00:01, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
- Finally, as to my "ignoring these efforts to communicate", due to the way category pages are generated, I was making each of these edits in separate tabs, being very simple-yet-repetitive changes. Thus, I did not see any notifications until that which informed me I was being blocked. I was not ignoring this contact, I simply didn't see it. I apologize that I didn't make a note as to the reason for my edits, but I really thought them to be very minor, and simply an effort to correct a glaring inconsistency. As I believe the numbers above show, the English language is on my side of this disagreement, and I would appreciate if the edits I made were reinstated. Also, I apologize if this response is not properly formatted for a talk page, or is lengthier than appropriate for same. If there is a better way to post so lengthy a response, please let me know. Thank you. --k1darkknight (talk) 00:01, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
Categorization
Hey, with regards to your changes to where novels are listed in categories, this is probably something you should bring up in the Senate Hall or the Consensus track. As Toprawa said to you in a previous message, discussing these changes with the rest of the community first is the best course of action. Thanks, Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:24, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
- Naming policy --k1darkknight (talk) 14:52, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
- That wasn't the place to discuss this change, nor do you seem wholly intent on paying respect to the rest of the community, part of which evidently disagrees with you on making this change, given that you proceeded to re-revert every one of your previous edits. You should be aware that issues of controversy like this are best discussed in Wookieepedia's Senate Hall or Consensus track forums, where a final decision may potentially be achieved through community consensus. Until that happens, perpetuating what is turning into an edit war may be construed as a violation of our three-revert rule. I suggest you make a greater effort to involve the community in this decision, lest you potentially find yourself under administrative action once more. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:27, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
Categories within categories...
Hello! I just wanted to let you know that if an article is in a category that is a subcategory of another category then the article need not also be in the bigger category. This is why Supreme Emperor has been reverting your edits concerning "The Hive" and other short stories. Because the article is in the subcategory Short stories republished with novels, it does not need to also be in the category Short stories. This is to help prevent overpopulating categories and also because all categories on Wookieepedia are within a bigger category (Short stories is in Books (real world), Books is in Star Wars media, media is in real world articles, etc.) I also wanted to let you know that I agree with you on how to categorize books that begin with an article and I believe some other people have already been doing it that way. That being said, you should bring it to the community's attention and let them vote on it. I do not believe the CT thread for the Naming policy is the best place to do that as it is about naming in-universe articles, not categorizing real world articles. I think that you should start a new CT thread with the information that you used to reply to Toprawa above, making a few slight changes and come up with a way to word the new rule that it could be added to the Manuel of style if the community voted in favor of it. I want to congratulate you on braving the area of categorization which I believe too many people ignore. Keep up the good work! - Princess GLG 18:12, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
- Princess basically said everything I was going to say in my reply, so i'll say thanks Princess, and if you choose to start a CT thread regarding categorization changes, best of luck. Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:04, June 7, 2013 (UTC)