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Images
Hey. When uploading images, please fill in the {{Information}} template to provide a source and licensing for the image or they will be deleted. Thanks. Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:42, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks! I went looking for this but was having trouble finding it (Obviously I'm new to Wiki Work!). I did know I needed to source it somehow. I posted the template with the relevant information on both images I uploaded. ASharpe 20:50, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
TC
You are more than welcome to leave your two cents in the appropriate "Comments" section on any TC, but seeing as though you do not have 50 mainspace edits, you are considered a "single-issue voter," and you do not get to have an official say until you reach this benchmark. Until that time, I would suggest you not interfering with the voting procedure. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- I see, I was rather under the impression this was a democracy, but it seems anyone who wants to delete something simple because it's something they don't like without justifying their position has more power then I do. I shouldn't be surprised really - [Redacted by administration] I guess I misunderstood the part about "community voting" and should have realized that everyone on Wookieepedia is subject merely to peoples whims. If contributing to the encyclopedia doesn't give me as say in the articles then I see no reason to continue to do so.
- The community has decided on this issue. If you don't like the results, feel free to start a CT thread to change them. [Redacted by administration] Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Wookieepedia is largely a democracy, since virtually everything is done by community consensus. Contributing does give you a say in the articles. That's exactly the point behind the single-issue voters policy. The policy keeps people from subverting the democratic process by drumming up votes from friends who have no real interest in Wookieepedia and/or sockpuppet accounts. If you've made a significant contribution to Wookieepedia (50+ non-vandalism edits to the main namespace), you get to vote. Heck, it was only a few months ago that I had my own vote stricken because of this policy. What did I do? I kept editing and now look at me! I'm voting left right and center! DolukFurthermore I believe that lists must be destroyed. 03:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- I understand completely. The people who already have the votes voted to make policy that excludes the people who don't have the votes. Unless they can find and add material 50 times to pages, a majority of which are locked so that only a select few (People who can vote, anyone want to guess?) can add to them. That completely defeats the purpose. Further, your attempts to suppress single-vote-users really only means you're suppressing people who disagree with your own ideas. Why don't you just burn Star Wars books and proclaim yourselves masters of the Star Wars universe? It's a faster way to a totalitarian government. Further, were you people actually doing something good for the community instead of deleting lists on the claim that it's to prevent Fanon from creeping into the community, while at the same time allowing OTHER lists and not even CONSIDERING them for deletion really just seems to me as if you people are attempting to impose your will on the Star Wars universe, rather then accurately reflect it on the site.ASharpe 04:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 04:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- This argument is completely lost on me. It's an invalid list because it's not from the universe? Then why, for fraks sake, do you have AN ENTIRE CATEGORY of REAL WORLD LISTS? In fact, another list up for deletion is being considered for merger with a THIRD list on the site - and said third list ISN'T a candidate for deletion when, from the vote in question here, apparently the only qualification necessary for something to be considered for deletion is BEING a list. This is exactly why people hate wikis - and especially this one. You selectively enforce the rules when someone does something new simply because members of the established communities weren't the ones to work on - and said members of the community did a poor job establishing the articles in the first place. This is not a vote. This is exactly what I said - you have nominated this list for deletion because someone on your friends list didn't make it. ASharpe 16:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- All lists are on their way out. Users are merely going through them one and a time and evaluating what data should be preserved rather than doing a catch-all delete. It simply transpires that this list of clone troopers is up for deletion now. It has nothing to do with who wrote it or what — we've seen articles deleted and FA's stripped of their statuses no matter who wrote them. Lists have come to be seen as unprofessional and have been rendered obsolete by categories. It is far more productive to have a bland and uninteresting category and actually work on the clone trooper articles than spend hours dressing up a list. Come back in a year and there'll be few, if no lists at all. Please don't assume that there are mysterious forces operating here…if the Pope wrote an article deemed no longer necessary, it would be treated in the same way as all the others. The essential point you seem to be missing is that lists have been superseded. -- Harrar 16:46, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Hey ASharpe, there's quite a lot in what you've said that is flat-out wrong. First, when the single-issue voter policy was put into effect (long before I was a regular here), anyone could vote on it, regardless of how many edits they had. Second, as Culator says, it's ridiculously easy to make 50 constructive edits. Fix spelling errors. Add sources. Create redlinked pages. Keep an eye on the recent changes for obvious vandalism. You can make 50 constructive edits in a couple of hours, at most. The point is that somebody who's actually interested in contributing will have no problem doing that, while somebody who's literally just here to vote on one thing generally won't bother. Third, what makes you think that most pages are protected from editing? Wookieepedia currently has 64,820 articles, only 284 of which are semi-protected (that's less than half a percent), and most of the ones that are semi-protected are templates! Fourth, nobody's surpressing people who don't agree with them. Single-issue votes get stricken regardless of how they vote. Back when I got my vote stricken for this reason, it was stricken by somebody who had already voted the same way I voted. Fifth, if there are lists that aren't being deleted, it only means that either we voted on them and decided that they were more useful than simple categories, or it means that we haven't gotten around to voting on them yet. In short, next time please do a little bit of research before throwing around hyperbole and falsehoods. DolukFurthermore I believe that lists must be destroyed. 16:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Naturally, then, you can let me know exactly where the List of Star Wars Media was voted on before - I mean, before considering merging two lists, naturally it should be decided to keep one of them first, right? Except it hasn't been. And if you're keeping one then, obviously, lists serve a purpose and can be considered professionally, right? Further, I fail to see anywhere where it was 'decided' that lists were bad. This seems to be a myth that has been perpetuated by a few members of the community. There was no 'vote' to ban lists - and if there was, there is shockingly little evidence of it. The Manual of Style, Terms of Service, Wookieepedia Policy, and Wookieepedia Guidelines ALL fail to establish where and when lists are so terrible - unless they are in character - as was stupidly suggested above, by someone who is evidently unaware that there is an entire CATEGORY of real-world lists. I see no evidence that there is an attempt to remove pages that were created and organized by people you know and trust - what I do see here is an attempt to call yourselves professional (when I doubt any of you have even worked in a professional setting - where lists are used on an hourly basis) while banning new contributors to the community who are in fact trying to make it a better place. Have you ever, once, tried to 'browse' a category? Categories are far less professional then lists. They fail to list all their material on the first page - instead you have to open up EVERY SINGLE SUB CATEGORY to view all the times. Now that you have all the sub-categories open, you have to open all the sub-sub-sub-sub-categories to view all the material - instead of having one search able list. If that truly is your goal around here, then I can say for a fact you deserve the poor reputation you've earned around the internet. It's becoming more and more clear to me that this is really just a place for people like you to take control over material you don't even own, and not really an attempt to present a decent organized piece of information to the community, or you might be aware of all these things (Like, I dunno, the fact that the list being in character or out of character is made irrelevant by a category someone here created), instead of blowing smoke to cover up whats so obviously a bias against new user content. ASharpe 17:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 17:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'd like permission to quote you everwhere on the internet for stating that "...lists do not exist in the Star Wars Universe..." did I get that correct? ASharpe 18:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- But that is EXACTLY what you said. Deleting lists isn't bad because lists don't exist in the Star Wars universe. Not, certain lists don't exist. Or, the list in question doesn't exist. You said all lists are bad because no lists exist in the Star Wars universe. If you want to talk about mis-statements, you should re-read what you wrote. Now, that being the case, under the grounds of your argument, the list of media should be deleted. Because it cannot exist in the Star Wars universe. However, Jusik Zey Skirata and Vau all make references to having rosters of clone troopers. So doesn't that mean that the Clone Trooper list is rooted in cannonicty, while the other lists your ignoring are absolutely 200% not? ASharpe 18:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Ah-ha. You see that your point is inarguable, so you latch on to an intentional misinterpretation of the topic at hand for a new strawman argument. Very good. You're still deliberately failing to address how deleting out-of-universe list pages that have been arbitrarily created by Wookieepedians is "imposing our will on the Star Wars universe." -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- 1) As established above, it is not an out of universe list. 2) I don't believe for a moment that I mis-interpreted your statement, I believe you're merely confused about the professionalism and usefulness of lists. 3) As pointed out above, I have no seen no guidelines, no vote, no policy, no manual of style indicating that there is justification for deleting an in-universe or out-of-universe list. 4) The fact that there is a category of 'real-world lists' merely supports my argument that lists are sometimes useful and justified, and neatly counters your argument that they need to be in character to be maintained. 5) It's become clear to me that you're not even bothering to read what you're writing, let alone what I'm writing, so I'm quite done responding to you - though I'd be happy to discuss this further with anyone else who might want to come along. ASharpe 18:22, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Ah-ha. You see that your point is inarguable, so you latch on to an intentional misinterpretation of the topic at hand for a new strawman argument. Very good. You're still deliberately failing to address how deleting out-of-universe list pages that have been arbitrarily created by Wookieepedians is "imposing our will on the Star Wars universe." -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- But that is EXACTLY what you said. Deleting lists isn't bad because lists don't exist in the Star Wars universe. Not, certain lists don't exist. Or, the list in question doesn't exist. You said all lists are bad because no lists exist in the Star Wars universe. If you want to talk about mis-statements, you should re-read what you wrote. Now, that being the case, under the grounds of your argument, the list of media should be deleted. Because it cannot exist in the Star Wars universe. However, Jusik Zey Skirata and Vau all make references to having rosters of clone troopers. So doesn't that mean that the Clone Trooper list is rooted in cannonicty, while the other lists your ignoring are absolutely 200% not? ASharpe 18:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'd like permission to quote you everwhere on the internet for stating that "...lists do not exist in the Star Wars Universe..." did I get that correct? ASharpe 18:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 17:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Naturally, then, you can let me know exactly where the List of Star Wars Media was voted on before - I mean, before considering merging two lists, naturally it should be decided to keep one of them first, right? Except it hasn't been. And if you're keeping one then, obviously, lists serve a purpose and can be considered professionally, right? Further, I fail to see anywhere where it was 'decided' that lists were bad. This seems to be a myth that has been perpetuated by a few members of the community. There was no 'vote' to ban lists - and if there was, there is shockingly little evidence of it. The Manual of Style, Terms of Service, Wookieepedia Policy, and Wookieepedia Guidelines ALL fail to establish where and when lists are so terrible - unless they are in character - as was stupidly suggested above, by someone who is evidently unaware that there is an entire CATEGORY of real-world lists. I see no evidence that there is an attempt to remove pages that were created and organized by people you know and trust - what I do see here is an attempt to call yourselves professional (when I doubt any of you have even worked in a professional setting - where lists are used on an hourly basis) while banning new contributors to the community who are in fact trying to make it a better place. Have you ever, once, tried to 'browse' a category? Categories are far less professional then lists. They fail to list all their material on the first page - instead you have to open up EVERY SINGLE SUB CATEGORY to view all the times. Now that you have all the sub-categories open, you have to open all the sub-sub-sub-sub-categories to view all the material - instead of having one search able list. If that truly is your goal around here, then I can say for a fact you deserve the poor reputation you've earned around the internet. It's becoming more and more clear to me that this is really just a place for people like you to take control over material you don't even own, and not really an attempt to present a decent organized piece of information to the community, or you might be aware of all these things (Like, I dunno, the fact that the list being in character or out of character is made irrelevant by a category someone here created), instead of blowing smoke to cover up whats so obviously a bias against new user content. ASharpe 17:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Hey ASharpe, there's quite a lot in what you've said that is flat-out wrong. First, when the single-issue voter policy was put into effect (long before I was a regular here), anyone could vote on it, regardless of how many edits they had. Second, as Culator says, it's ridiculously easy to make 50 constructive edits. Fix spelling errors. Add sources. Create redlinked pages. Keep an eye on the recent changes for obvious vandalism. You can make 50 constructive edits in a couple of hours, at most. The point is that somebody who's actually interested in contributing will have no problem doing that, while somebody who's literally just here to vote on one thing generally won't bother. Third, what makes you think that most pages are protected from editing? Wookieepedia currently has 64,820 articles, only 284 of which are semi-protected (that's less than half a percent), and most of the ones that are semi-protected are templates! Fourth, nobody's surpressing people who don't agree with them. Single-issue votes get stricken regardless of how they vote. Back when I got my vote stricken for this reason, it was stricken by somebody who had already voted the same way I voted. Fifth, if there are lists that aren't being deleted, it only means that either we voted on them and decided that they were more useful than simple categories, or it means that we haven't gotten around to voting on them yet. In short, next time please do a little bit of research before throwing around hyperbole and falsehoods. DolukFurthermore I believe that lists must be destroyed. 16:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- All lists are on their way out. Users are merely going through them one and a time and evaluating what data should be preserved rather than doing a catch-all delete. It simply transpires that this list of clone troopers is up for deletion now. It has nothing to do with who wrote it or what — we've seen articles deleted and FA's stripped of their statuses no matter who wrote them. Lists have come to be seen as unprofessional and have been rendered obsolete by categories. It is far more productive to have a bland and uninteresting category and actually work on the clone trooper articles than spend hours dressing up a list. Come back in a year and there'll be few, if no lists at all. Please don't assume that there are mysterious forces operating here…if the Pope wrote an article deemed no longer necessary, it would be treated in the same way as all the others. The essential point you seem to be missing is that lists have been superseded. -- Harrar 16:46, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- This argument is completely lost on me. It's an invalid list because it's not from the universe? Then why, for fraks sake, do you have AN ENTIRE CATEGORY of REAL WORLD LISTS? In fact, another list up for deletion is being considered for merger with a THIRD list on the site - and said third list ISN'T a candidate for deletion when, from the vote in question here, apparently the only qualification necessary for something to be considered for deletion is BEING a list. This is exactly why people hate wikis - and especially this one. You selectively enforce the rules when someone does something new simply because members of the established communities weren't the ones to work on - and said members of the community did a poor job establishing the articles in the first place. This is not a vote. This is exactly what I said - you have nominated this list for deletion because someone on your friends list didn't make it. ASharpe 16:38, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 04:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- I understand completely. The people who already have the votes voted to make policy that excludes the people who don't have the votes. Unless they can find and add material 50 times to pages, a majority of which are locked so that only a select few (People who can vote, anyone want to guess?) can add to them. That completely defeats the purpose. Further, your attempts to suppress single-vote-users really only means you're suppressing people who disagree with your own ideas. Why don't you just burn Star Wars books and proclaim yourselves masters of the Star Wars universe? It's a faster way to a totalitarian government. Further, were you people actually doing something good for the community instead of deleting lists on the claim that it's to prevent Fanon from creeping into the community, while at the same time allowing OTHER lists and not even CONSIDERING them for deletion really just seems to me as if you people are attempting to impose your will on the Star Wars universe, rather then accurately reflect it on the site.ASharpe 04:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Wookieepedia is largely a democracy, since virtually everything is done by community consensus. Contributing does give you a say in the articles. That's exactly the point behind the single-issue voters policy. The policy keeps people from subverting the democratic process by drumming up votes from friends who have no real interest in Wookieepedia and/or sockpuppet accounts. If you've made a significant contribution to Wookieepedia (50+ non-vandalism edits to the main namespace), you get to vote. Heck, it was only a few months ago that I had my own vote stricken because of this policy. What did I do? I kept editing and now look at me! I'm voting left right and center! DolukFurthermore I believe that lists must be destroyed. 03:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- The community has decided on this issue. If you don't like the results, feel free to start a CT thread to change them. [Redacted by administration] Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Lol tis a world war! —Unsigned comment by Torem O'de (talk • contribs)
- OK, it's becoming increasingly obvious that you're intentionally missing the point, but that aside, let me clear something up for you. There hasn't been any community-wide decision to get rid of all lists (at least, not that I'm aware of), which is precisely why instead of just up and deleting them all, we're slowly going through and voting on each individual list, so that we can decide based on that individual list's merits whether or not it should be deleted. Despite what it says in my signature, there have been a couple of lists that I have voted to keep because they did something better than a category would (in particular I voted to keep the list that you're bitching about not being able to vote to keep). In general, however, lists are a less valuable way for us to organize Wookieepedia than categories for 2 main reasons. First, categories are self-populating. You create an article, and it automatically shows up in whatever categories you've placed it in. With lists, you have to manually go in and update the list, if you're even aware that the list exists in the first place. Second, lists are much more prone to fanon. Creating a fanon redlink in a list is way simpler (and more insidious) than creating an entire fanon article and putting it in a category. It's harder to catch too. DolukFurthermore I believe that lists must be destroyed. 18:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, fantastic. So this is why you're so worked up about this stupid list. My friends WP:POINT, WP:SOCK, and WP:NPA would like to have a word with you. [Redacted by administration] -- Darth Culator (Talk) 18:28, 25 February 2009 (UTC)