Talk: Witches of Dathomir

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Move to Dathomiri? -- SFH 04:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

  • I take issue with this whole article. Aren't the "Witches of Dathomir" just another word for the Nightsisters? Also, male Dathomiri were not allowed to be witches until the Legacy era, making all witches Dathomiri, but not all Dathomiri witches. I think a seperate article should be created for "Dathomiri" and most of this article should be merged into the "Nightsisters" article. Lonnyd 07:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
  • No, the Witches of Dathomir are the lightside using Dathomiri; The Nightsisters are the darkside using Dathomiri. By your logic, Kirana Ti, Tenel Ka, Teneniel Djo, and Damaya would all be Nightsisters, which is not the case. Therefore, Witches of Dathomir =/= Nightsisters, while Nightsisters = Witches of Dathomir exiled from their clan. As for your claim that males were not allowed to be Witches until the Legacy era (What's the source for that, anyway?), maybe they were not allowed they be trained using the light side of the Force , but they were trained in the dark side (by the Nightsisters) as early as the New Republic Era. While it is true that some Dathomiri cannot touch the Force, most of them can. StarNeptune 08:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I admit my mistake on the Nightsisters thing, I researched it after I posted that, but about the Dathomiri/Witches of Dathomir thing, I don't think that the entire population of the planet should be referred to as witches. There are obviously non-force using members of the society, especially the slaves, regardless of when they starting allowing males to be witches. Lonnyd 10:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
      • I guess what I'm saying is, this article needs split. Lonnyd 11:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
        • I'm going to begin a split on Sunday, unless there are objections. Lonnyd 09:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
          • I'm not objecting, but I'm just curious as to what you're going to put for Dathomiri. "The Dathomiri were people native to the planet Dathomir, comprised mostly of the Witches of Dathomir and Nightsister Force using groups?" I just ask because info on non-Witches/Nightsisters is pretty scarce, even though they do exist. StarNeptune 14:22, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
            • Do you think it's a bad idea? Mainly, I would just seperate the history of the culture from the deatils of the witches. I just think it is neccessary because of the exclusivity of the Witches, and then we could further detail the Nightsisters. Lonnyd 10:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
              • So would there would be three pages altogether, or would we be merging Nightsisters and Witches of Dathomir together, then having a seperate page just for generic Dathomiri (i.e. Slaves and non-Force users). I'm all for helping out either way if you want me to. StarNeptune 10:46, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
                • Yes, I say three pages. generic Dathomiri, Witches, and Nightsisters. I think all three warrant a page. Lonnyd 10:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I know I said that a week ago, but my work schedule plus my girlfriend being out of town (watching two kids on my own) doesn't allow for major projects this week. I'll get to it next week, and when the time comes, I would appreciate any help you could offer, Mr Neptune. Lonnyd 21:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I totally agree with the division. Take your time. But I think they prefer to call themselves "Daughters of Allya", "Witches of Dathomir" is just what others call them.--Bodo-Baas 21:43, 6 April 2006 (PDT)
    • I kind of forgot about this, but I've read up on them a bit, and I think it's an apt name for the specific culture that is being talked about. There's not enough info to warrant a seperate article of the "Dathomiri" people, whoever they were before Allya came. Not that I kind find anyway, but I don't have any of the chronologies. Lonnyd 07:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Allya: we can assume she is redeemed (or was light-side all along), since otherwise all the Witches would be darkside. 82 AirborneTac-Com "Hit any key to continue" 03:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I've been doing some minor edits to this page since I began reading "The Courtship of Princess Leia" and one of my edits included stating that the males were not Force-sensitive. It seemed rather clear to me that this is a true statement based on the following quotes from the 1995 paperback version: Teneniel Djo says to Luke, "How can you work the magic, being only a man?" (pg 166) Later she asks, "Who has ever heard of a male spellcaster?" (pg 184) Another hint came from Teneniel's mention of the "Jai" which is what the Daughters of Allya call the Jedi. When she talks about the Jai, she mentions them as male witches from beyond the stars (pg 166). Putting this all together, I came to the conclusion that male Dathomiri were, in large, not Force-sensitive like the women were. Do my claims seem founded or should I edit what I already wrote to say that men did not show signs of Force-sensitivity (or something to that general effect)? Jake 14:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

  • A couple of points. I agree with Lonnyd's current opinion that we shouldn't split the page. The two cultures are too closely connected, and the evidence is best handed together. In reply to Jake, though—there is certainly some Force-sensitivity among Dathomiri men. If memory serves, Cracken's Threat Dossier or Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds says that it's about the same percentage as the women, but they were so thoroughly under-the-thumb of the women that they never developed it. I could be misremembering slightly on that, but examples like Vilas show that some Dathomiri men do have the Force. Nevertheless, you're right to point out that the point should be discussed. I've made an edit for now, but someone ought to check the sources. --McEwok 00:14, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm rereading TCPL. I can't speak for the other sources. But I do believe it was author's intent that Dathomiri men were not inherently Force insensitive. As stated above, Teneniel Djo asks Luke, "how can you work the magic, being only a man?" Luke replies, "the Force is in us all, but only those who are trained can become its Masters." Considering the nature of Witches' mastery of the Force (spoken spells), I think its just that much harder for Dathomiri men (who are slaves anyway) to learn to use the Force. SOLDIERofficer81 17:45, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wizards of Dathomir

Are there any Male dathomiri force-user or the clanes just made up of female force-sensitives? If so, what happen to the male force-sensitives. In the article it says that the clanes have female dominance but what with the males?—Unsigned comment by 207.248.40.19 (talk • contribs)

POD source

  • Darth Bane: Path of Destruction is listed in the sources. Firstly, it would be an appearance, not a source. Secondly, the Witches weren't around when POD is set, so this can't be right. I am going to remove it, but let me know if i am wrong --Jinzler 23:00, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Dathomiri Males

I don't think it is the author's point (in TCPL) that the men are not force sensitive, but they are not trained, not allowed to train themselves, or use their powers. They are slaves, and are treated as such. So, the author portrays the womens' view of the men in this society to show their bias. (He's just turning the tables to show how ridiculous the male prejudice against the capability of women has always been.) Clearly, some of the men have to be force sensitive, and even if it is rarer in males than females, it is very unlikely to be universal. The women would know this, being force sensitive and trained. They probably just don't want the men to know that they even have the potential. I would expect that any men who are force sensitive would have to hide it, or at least abide by the rules not to use or try to develop their gifts. They could run away and seek training or train themselves, or train in clans as some pointed out. It is stated in TCPL that the planet is mostly uninhabited wilderness, so who can say what else is going on far from the known clans. However, it would be very dangerous for poorly trained force sensitive men beyond the clans. The omnipresent rancors, and worse predators, are the first problem, and the second is the lack of food, and the need to spend all their time finding food. They are likely to get captured by a nightsister and enslaved, or turned to the dark side. They are likely to fall to the darkside because of a lack of training, even though they probably share the witches view of and devotion to the Book of Law, such as they may understand it. The planet was also a Sith training ground before Allya, and anyone looking to train themselves is likely to fall afoul of the dark side temptations that they might run across exploring and looking for a safe place to live and train. Despite the danger, light side and dark side male force adepts are obviously possible. They have been a staple source of light and dark side force wielders in Rebellion era RPG games, and it remains fertile ground for plots of future novels.—Unsigned comment by 24.180.11.170 (talk • contribs)

Canon

Do we make canon article now that we got light-side witch clans back? --Goodmind (talk) 16:07, August 26, 2020 (UTC)

  • I think so, especially since BoBF has just explicitly mentioned them as rancor riders. —Unsigned comment by Strykerman (talk • contribs)

Split

Should we split the overall Witches of Dathomir and have separate light-side Daughters of Allya and dark-side Nightsisters pages kinda like Jedi and Sith? --Goodmind (talk) 09:26, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

    • This doesn’t really work with the reason being that they are the same group. While the Jedi and Sith are two different but related factions, source material tells us that they are one singular faction with smaller subgroups within. AmazinglyCool Nightsisters symbol - JFO (talk) 11:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)