Talk: Tulak Hord

Two lightsabres

The lightsaber article says that the lightsaber was invented circa 9900 BBY, long after this article claims Tulak lived. Which one is wrong? Is this a case of fanon? -- Silly Dan 02:52, 5 Jul 2005 (UTC)

• These Sith from the games seem to acquire much fanwanking. Be very wary. QuentinGeorge 06:16, 5 Jul 2005 (UTC)
  • Kreia does say something about Tulak Hord during the Korriban levels of KOTOR 2 -- perhaps I'll check during my next playthrough if what she says resembles what the anons like to add to this article. I'm fairly sure she didn't say anything about twin lightsabers. -- Silly Dan 02:00, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
    • Yes, nothing about twin blades, but she does go on about how good he was with lightsabers. When did the Sith develop lightsabers (or steal them from the Jedi?) Before or after the Great Hyperspace War? Tulak Hord must have reigned shortly after that. — Silly Dan 03:16, 31 Jul 2005 (UTC)
      • New information reveals that the Sith did not steal the modern Lightsabre design at all, but rather it was the Protosabre that was developed around 10,000 BBY by the Jedi and it was the Sith that refined the design into the modern lightsabre at some point after 6,900 BBY and then then after the Hyperspace war the Jedi stole the design from the sith as they were still using Protosabres--99.141.182.145 12:02, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Succession Box

• Who keeps doing this? Xendor can't succeed Tulak because Xendor was dead before the renegade Jedi conquered the Sith! QuentinGeorge 05:35, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)

How did we get the information that Tyranus came close to his skill with the lightsaber? Quote, please.--Andrelvis 06:11, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

• Seems to be fanwanking. I removed it. QuentinGeorge 03:41, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC)

When did Hord live?

• Looking at this article, I now feel that Hord must be post-Great Hyperspace War, since he was a lightsaber duelist, and the Ancient Sith didn't have the weapon until they contacted the Republic again post-Naga Sadow. Accordingly, I think he should be after Ludo Kressh in the succession line. QuentinGeorge 03:41, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Perhaps they had lightsabers and they just got lost in time. We're talking about 20.000 years here! After all, we might learn things about the ancient Sith and lightsabers with these "True Sith"... Until then, I think he should be neither Ancient nor post-Great Hyperspace War. He should be in "Others". --Master Starkeiller 16:18, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
    • No, I think it makes more sense that they copied the lightsaber from fallen Jedi during the Great Hyperspace War. I think the succession box should go back where it was. — Silly Dan 20:00, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
      • Yeah, but we don't know for sure, right? --Master Starkeiller 20:01, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
        • Well, we can infer from his lightsaber use that he was after any Sith lord who appeared in the Great Hyperspace War, and he was long enough before Darth Revan that his tomb was in ruins by the time he (or she) visited. I suppose he might have been after Freedon Nadd, but since Nadd's tomb was on Dxun rather than Korriban, it seems like Nadd ruled the Sith after Korriban was abandoned. — Silly Dan 20:14, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
          • It's pretty clear from the game that the intent was for him to be an ancient Sith Empire Era Sith Lord. I even think Kreia says he was the greatest lightsaber master in the Sith Empire... But we assume from Tales of the Jedi that there were no lightsabers in the Sith Empire. That's why I think he fits into "Others", there is seemingly conflicting information. But if you think about it, the first Dark Lord of the Sith, the red-clad one, held a saber in his hand when the Sith race recognized him as a god... --Master Starkeiller 20:58, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
            • By Revan's time, Ludo Kressh would have been ancient. Even Freedon Nadd was centuries earlier. I haven't actually read the ToTJ comics, so I won't revert your succession box edit (though I suspect placing Hord somewhere between Kressh and Nadd is correct.) — Silly Dan 21:40, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to bump an old discussion, but I have a theory that may provide a very simple solution to this problem: Tulak Hord was one of the Dark Jedi exiled from Republic space after the Battle of Corbos, a contemporary of Ajunta Pal. (He possibly may have even been Pal's apprentice. That may explain why Pal was the first Dark Lord of the Sith, and then Hord: the apprentice slew the master and claimed his throne, which would become the practice of all Sith Lords.) Now, perhaps Kreia was referring to Hord's lightsaber skills from before the Dark Jedi were exiled. And, as the Jedi Exile tells us, exiles are not permitted to keep their lightsabers, so all sabers would have been confiscated prior to their exile. This is why the Sith will not come to use lightsabers again until after the Great Hyperspace War. 24.3.202.85 02:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

No. No way Hord was a contemporary of Ajunta Pall. If this was the case why is it never mentioned we know Xoxaan, Karness Murr, and others were as they were explicitly named if Tulak Hord was among them one would suspect that we hear him mentioned in that group and we have never. He couldn't have been an exile, that would simply be a great assumption based on no evidence so he could be from any point of the old Sith Empire to the Jedi Civil War. I suspect he died long before Freedon Nadd nothing to specifically say that but it seems that based on how he was presented as an ancient Sith lord. The use of lightsabers really doesn't give us any information because the Exiles arrived on Korriban with lightsabers so it's not the ancient Sith Empire hadn't seen them before. That really gives us nothing.--67.183.100.160 23:47, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sith Lightsabre

With regards to when Tulak Hord lived, is it possible that:

• A)Kreia was wrong about Tulak Hord
• B)Kreia was correct about Tulak Hord but instead of stating the name of his true weapon, called him a Lightsabre master for the benefit of the Jedi Exile
• C)That Tulak Hord was using an early Sith substitute for the Lightsabre, perhaps a Sith Tremor Sword infused with the power of the Force so much that it glowed, or an early version of a Lightsabre?

Any thoughts? Jasca Ducato 17:56, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

• There's no reason Kreia would lie or make a mistake, and the Exile was probably familliar with Tremor Swords and the like, so Kreia would've said Tremor Sword if that's what Tulak Hord used. On the other hand, there's a very good chance the game's writers forgot when the Sith first gained access to lightsabers (and I'm pretty sure that was after contact with the Jedi). — Silly Dan 21:40, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • KOTOR and KOTOR 2 took a few liberties on Galactic History. This is just one of those thing's that Leland Chee or someone at Lucasfilm will have to fix. -- SFH 21:56, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)
    • For what it's worth, here is the opening page from Golden Age of the Sith.

[[File:Sithhist1.jpg|thumb]]

• Well, they look like lightsabres to me. Which would mean (a) whatever source said lightsabres were developed in 9900 BBY or so may be wrong, and (b) Tulak's weapon wouldn't help us figure out when he lived. — Silly Dan 21:50, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Those could also be Energy swords. -- SFH 22:18, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • Yes, I'm not totally certain that they are lightsabres. It should be noted that if indeed they are, this is the last time in the story you see Sith wielding them - which still leads to the problem of why a Golden Age Sith Tulak Hord is running around wielding a lightsaber. QuentinGeorge 22:32, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
      • Here's another pic of "Red" Dark Lord.

• Certainly the thing on his belt looks very lightsaberish...we could, however, be seeing an error that has started to propogate amongst newer material. QuentinGeorge 23:10, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, I see definitive proof that lightsabers existed since 25.000 BBY. But since there can be other explanations, let's keep Tulak vague. --Master Starkeiller 10:30, 16 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • A new twist! The New Essential Chronology restates the given lightsaber invention date of c. 10,000 BBY, BUT retcons the birth of the Sith to the Hundred-Year Darkness. So Tulak Hord is no problem now. QuentinGeorge 06:53, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
      • So Tulak Hord did have access to the Lightsabre. Then i suggest that someone changes his position on the Dark Lord page and modify the article accordingly. Jasca Ducato 14:16, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Of course it looks like a lightsaber, and probably that's what the artist was intending. But it could be something else. Perhaps some sort of collapsible Vibroblade? Heck, it might not even be a weapon--how about one of those electronic scrolls we saw a fair amount of in TOTJ?--Valin Kenobi 04:13, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • "the Dark Lords of the Sith Empire were ultimately responsible for the advancement of lightsabers, replacing the belt-mounted power pack with a power cell within the hilt"

So says the Lightsabre article, so if this image dates from the era it could well be Tulak--99.141.195.222 18:19, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

The Red Sith

I decided to add this here since there is already info about him here. I have a question, why is he referred to as the First Dark Lord of the Sith? Nowhere in that article can it be inferred that the scene shown is of the first Dark Lord of the Sith. This guy could just as easily be Tulak Hord himself after conquering the likes of Ajunta Pall and Dathka Graush who used Sith swords rather than lightsabers.

I see that the Sith people seem to be bowing down to this God-King, but I don't see how that conveys the first contact of the Sith people with the exiled Dark Jedi.

The way I see it there are 3 possibilities.

• 1)The Red Sith is the First Dark Lord of the Sith and he killed Ajunta Pall for the right to the title of the First Dark Lord of the Sith, since Ajunta was with the first group that found the Sith people.

• 2)The Red Sith is not a Dark Lord of the Sith, but rather part of the first group to encounter the Sith people, making him a lord, but never Dark Lord of the Sith.

• 3)The Red Sith is a later Dark Lord of the Sith, perhaps someone after Dathka Graush and around Tulak's time, perhaps he is Tulak himself.

216.221.96.201 05:59, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)

• I think if BioWare intended Tulak Hord to be the Red Sith, they would have stated it explicitly. - Sikon [Talk] 05:16, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• They disregarded the rest of the TotJ books when making the games anyway, could it not just be coincidence that they're the same person? And how exactly would they have said explicitly that the Red Sith is Tulak? On their website? That'd be a pretty awkward statement by Kreia, "Oh, and by the way, Tulak wore this dark red armor and he appeared in the TotJ books!"216.221.96.201 04:51, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • Disregarded? A bold statement. Facts, please. - Sikon [Talk] 08:15, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • Hmmmm... On this very site perhaps? Isn't there a section on the Knights of the Old Republic page that states the continuity errors including disregarding the 'ancient' look of the comics. But perhaps 'disregarded' was too strong of a word. I'll admit that they did include characters like Ulic and Exar and the world of Korriban. But you have to admit that they did not give great care to recreating small details. The small picture of the Red Sith on one page in the entire series is a very small detail that I bet they overlooked.
    • It's not a continuity error. If KOTOR says that the KOTOR era looks more modern than the Tales era, then it's true, as long as there is no contradiction with another source that portrays the areas seen in KOTOR differently. Besides, it was a conscious decision of the developers to give KOTOR a more modern look. - Sikon [Talk] 05:21, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Tulak Hord Images

Should we have an image of Tulak's mask at least and has there yet been any discriptions or images of the actual Tulak Hord?

• I think that is a good idea. --Sauron18 04:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
  • So can anyone get that up here?
    • Is this possibly Hord's mask?

anyone? DarthMalus

• Would anyone agree with me if I claimed that the statue above the grave entrance most likely is of Hord himself? Charlii 20:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Probably...maybe just to be safe, you could put a picture of the statue in outside the infobox, with an appropriate caption. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I just had a brainwave! You know that picture from the holocron that some people think is Adas? I think that it's Hord. Black mask, same time period, lightsaber. Telos 23:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
      • This one? Telos 23:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
        • Well, that's your theory and for the moment it is nothing more. So while it is possible, keep the image out until we know for sure. Charlii 08:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I've also believed this mysterious armored man to be Tulak Hord for quite some time. The fact that both he and the red-armored Sith Lord are depicted with lightsabers, when the Sith did not use lightsabers until after the Great Hyperspace war, tells me that these are depictions of Ajunta Pall and Tulak Hord (those are the only people they could possibly be given their place in the timeline) before their exile from Republic space, along with all the rest of their Dark Jedi Companions at the end of the Hundred-Year Darkness. As the Jedi Exile tells us in Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, exiles are not permitted to keep their lightsabers. Thus, APall's and Hord's sabers would have been confiscated, along with all the rest of thee weapons that their followers carried, thus explaining why the Sith no longer used lightsabers until they made contact with the Republic and the Jedi once again circa 5,000 BBY. Thus, the problem is resolved regarding what Kreia says about Hord being the greatest lightsaber duelist the Sith ever: she was referring to his time before the exile of the Dark Jedi. This would also likely mean that Hord was Pall's Dark Jedi (and later, Sith) apprentice, who would later slay his master and usurp the mantle of Dark Lord for himself in traditional Sith manner.

There is, however, one other problem that seem to always be overlooked, and as far as I know, I am the first to point it out: both the red-armored and black-armored Sith Lords carry not just lightsabers, but modern lightsabers, i.e. condensed, smooth, not organic-looking, and lacking a power pack and cord. It is especially strange considering that they existed three thousand years before the events in Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of the Sith, where the Jedi therein use the afore-described primitive sabers. This was most likely simply a careless oversight by the comic book artist. I think that, since Tulak Hord was such a saber master, he might have also been a genius lightsaber inventor as well. He may have crafted what would become the lightsaber in its modern form, thus making it millenia ahead of its time, and crafted a second for his master, Ajunta Pall. This would account for their use of modern-looking, cordless sabers. And, as I said, the Jedi would have confiscated their weapons before exiling them. No doubt the Jedi also would have greatly desired to obtain these sabers for themselves in order to study and make the same lightsaber technological breakthrough themselves. (This also would have encouraged lightsaber use among many more Jedi, since the depictions from this era show the majority of them still favoring swords, most likely do to the lightsaber's instability at that time.) However, Pall and Tulak probably destroyed their breakthrough-sabers before their capture, thus denying the Jedi such an opportunity.

This is a lot to claim, I know, but given all of the facts, this is the most likely scenario, I feel. It all makes sense if you think about it.

Anyway, in a round-about way of saying it, I think that's probably Tulak Hord in the picture there as well. 24.3.202.85 22:53, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• I didn't even bother reading that rant for one reason, it's original research. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council} 19:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
  • But it makes sense. You really should give it a look. 24.3.202.85 02:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Though you're meant to give your lightsaber back to the Jedi when you leave the Order, you can actually keep it, as evidenced by Xanatos. Telos 22:39, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
• Wait, if you didn't read it, how then did you know it was original research? {{SUBST:User:Xavius/Signature}} 10:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

New Era

I found new evidence that shows that Tulak Hord lived AFTER Naga Sadow and the Great Hyperspace War. Khem Val, Hords loyal servant, was put into stasis while Hord was still alive, (He didn't know his master was dead yet). So, if he lived before Naga Sadow, HOW COULD BE STORE HIS SERVENT IN SADOW'S TOMB!? Clearly he lived after Sadow. He had a lightsaber, he was seemingly alive after Sadow had passed, he is recorded as fighting Jedi before in his life when infact the Great Hyperspace War was supposed to be the first war between Jedi and Sith. (It says on Khem Vals bio that he ate thousands of Jedi before being put in stasis). I know its implied to be before Ragnos and Sadow, but there is just too much evidence against it.--Jet Twilights 04:13, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

• Khem Val was buried in Naga Sadow's tomb in Korriban and that tomb was never occupied by Sadow. Naga Sadow was buried on Yavin 4 and apparently sith constructed a tomb for him prior to his death. We also know that tomb on Korriban contained several rakatan statues and a Star Map, so Naga Sadow's Tomb was probably build over much older ruins and Hord might have put Val into stasis inside the ruins that would become Naga Sadows tomb. Yet the devouring of the jedi would imply that Khem Val was put into stasis during a conflict between sith and jedi, which means 100-Year Darkness or Great Hyperspace War. Now we have several explanations:1) Hord lived during 100-year Darkness and did not use lightsabers, and Khem Val was burried in to ancient Rakatan ruins.2) He lived during Great Hyperspace war. I see no possibility of him living after Naga Sadow, because Sith were destroyed or driven into exile after the Great Hyperspace war. Naga Sadow lived for some time after Great Hyperspace War in Yavin 4 and Vitiates Empire stayed out of Korriban untill the Great Galactic War. --109.204.167.118 11:46, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
  • Thats actually a pretty good explanation.--Jet Twilights 21:46, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
    • I have some more info that raises some questions. Could be an editorial error, or the truth about his lifetime. People that played SWTOR could know these details, but maybe they didn't put them together like this. In the Dark Temple, on Dromund Kaas, there is a possessed worker that thinks he is Lord Pharshol. If you are succesful in his quest, he will tell you that he (Pharshol) came to Dromund Kaas with the colonists (as in Vitiate's) and built the Dark Temple. In this temple, the sith Inquisitor visits the tomb of Lord Kallig, which was personally killed by Tulak Hord & Khem Val (since he wants to "devour him a second time" when they meet). Kallig even stole an artifact or Tulak Hord and hid it in his would-be tomb. All this being said...means that Kallig, like Tulak Hord, actually lived in Vitiate's lifetime. since the temple wasn't built until Vitiate's colonization of Dromund Kaas. This would also explain how there was a tomb of Naga Sadow when Khem Val was imprisoned there.

Another clue would be the fact that he discovered and conquered the Dromund System. It was possible that was the same time Vitiate colonised Dromund Kaas, making them allies. We know the Dark Temple was the place where Vitiate burried his enemies, like Kel'eth Ur and many more. Kallig, the enemy of Tulak Hord is also buried there. But, the next problem arises... Tulak Hord was also known to the vast sith population, having a Tomb on Korriban during Revan's first visit. The only logical possibility would be that, at some point, he broke off from Vitiate's empire, in the same time escaping the fate of Vitiate's allies, trying to rebuild the Sith and probably succeeding, conquering worlds like Yn and Chabosh, and at the end of his reign he put Khem Val in stasis, on Korriban, where he was soon buried. That would mean there was a great conflict between Jedi and Sith, after the Great Hyperspace War, that hasn't yet been explored. Another possibility (pure speculation) would be that Vitiate assumed Tulak's merits and since he outlived him, he wrote history how he saw fit. Maybe Vitiate was just tasked to colonize Dromund Kaas in Tulak Hord's massive conquest spree. After he heard of Tulak's defeat, he decided it was smart to remain there, build his secret empire, a remnant of TulaK's and have enough power to one day strike. Disregarding this last statement, everything else mentioned should be considered. We don't know for sure, but the signs are there. --Seth danny (talk) 03:02, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

• Dromund Kaas was rediscoverd by Vitiate's servants, as it was a member of the Sith Empire that was lost in the centuries before the Great Hyperspace War. Also, just because Kallig's tomb was in the temple doesn't mean that it wasn't there before the Emperor (as the identity of Vitiate died with the ritual) and his people arrived. It may have been why the Emperor chose that place, or Kallig's remains were moved there. Cade Calrayn 03:39, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
  • Pharshol said they built the temple in the jungle. Since his tomb is on the second floor, the possibility of building a temple around his original tomb falls. And his remains weren't moved here because he says (of Khem Val): "Its master murdered me and laid me to rest in this catacomb." That very tomb holds the artifact he stole from Tulak Hord and he is now guarding. It hasn't been moved since his death.--Seth danny (talk) 05:35, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
• It's not possible for Tulak Hord to have lived during this time. In the Old Republic Encyclopedia, Khem Val is referred to as being in stasis for 'millennia' and Ergast discovered his Force walk technique thousands of years ago. He may have lived three centuries after Tulak Hord, but Ergast was not a member of Vitiate's Empire.

Page 152 of the Encyclopedia, which is set Out of Universe... Under Force Spirits.

'Impressed by the powerful Force spirits, Sith Lord Ergast developed a Force-walking ritual thousands of years ago to absorb restless spirits of the dead and feed off their incredible hunger.'

At best, Hord lives post-Exile but pre-Great Hyperspace War, most likely when the Sith leave Sith Space early in their exile. Further, the Dark Force Temple is built over Kallig's tomb, as I understand. If no-one disagrees with me, I'll edit the page. Sinre (talk) 01:13, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

No argument, so erroneous statement removed. Sinre (talk) 03:59, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Armor

Recently (relatively) wasnt Tulak Hords armor added to SWTOR? I have seen it in game and it completely covers the body, would that be a decent... substitute for a picture of him? Maybe dress someone up and take a screenshot of them somewhere on korriban in an area we know Tulak Hord had been? I know it wouldn't be a pic of Tulak Hord but it would be close enough to show what he looked like... or maybe just the helmet? or dismembered pieces of the armor? What about promotional artwork for the Tulak Hord armor released by EA and Bioware? Is there any way to show the armor in individual pieces at least and scatter the parts around this article? I feel like this is important. ralok (talk) 07:17, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

• We can't use an image of someone else in his armor as a userbox image, but it could certainly be included in the legacy section of the article as long as the caption made clear it wasn't him in the armor. As for the the artwork its concept art so it would have to go in the Behind the scenes section. Ayrehead02 (talk) 09:28, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
  • Even though its identical to the in-game armor? Well like I said what about other promotional art, or just the helmet or individual pieces? ralok (talk) 15:43, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
    • It's still concept art so yes it has to be in the behind the scenes. Is there other promotional art? Like I said having someone in the full set of armor is fine as long as its in the appropriate place in the body and not the infobox. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:50, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
      • Im trying to figure out if there was other promotional art for it... I feel like its possible, but I am not sure at this moment. ralok (talk) 17:20, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Tulak Hord’s Species?

I don’t think Tulak Hord’s species was ever defined specifically anywhere, but I believe it is safe to say that he was a Sith pureblood. The reason being, we can see that during the beginning of the reign of Naga Sadow, there were no other sentient species except Sith purebloods living in the Sith empire, and because Tulak Hord’s lived before Naga Sadow, the same rule should apply.

• We definitely have proof of sentient species other than the Sith living in the Sith Empire (see, for example, Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side and the Star Wars: Lost Tribe of the Sith series for examples). None of the founding Dark Lords of the Sith, the Exiles, were Sith either since they came from outside of Sith space, and, while we do know that eventually the Sith interbred with species such as Humans, as far as I'm aware we don't even know the exact timeframe for Hord's reign, so we don't know whether he ruled during that latter period of the Sith Empire or earlier. Imperators II^(Talk) 07:44, 20 January 2024 (UTC)