Talk: Rank insignia plaque/Legends/Archive1

This page is an archive of the discussion of an article. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's current talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.

This archive was previously hosted under the name "Talk:Rank insignia of the Galactic Empire/old version".

Highest rank

Wouldn't the highest rank in the Imperial Starfighter Corps., just like Grand Admiral and Grand General, be Grand Marshall? On a similar subject, what about the Imperial Marine Corps.? (Air Force or Field Division)

• I suppose that Grand Marshall would be the highest rank, but until we find a source for it, we can't add that. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:28, 29 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Okay. Let me know when you do.

• Well, you could also look for a source as well. I doubt there is any source, however. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 22:52, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Without any source of a Grand Marshall, it has to be omitted. By the way, is anyone working on fixing this page? There a LOT of OOU stuff imbedded into the article. Great Wikipedia article, horrible Wookipedia article... Esplin 17:41, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Gallery

How about moving all the rank badges to [[Gallery of Imperial rank insignia]] or something like that? Admiral J. Nebulax 14:45, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

• Uhh... I wouldn't recommend that. Most of them are fanon in one way or another. Some other Wookieepedians will no doubt despair to hear that I'm working on a thorough revision of this page...

In the mean time, though - a few questions:

• Anyone interested in me throwing what I've written so far onto a /temp page?
• Is the rank of Bast or Cass ever given explicitly in any canon source?
• Does anyone have a list of alterations made to rank insignia in the SEs?
• Does anyone have any official source for the supposed "blooper" with rank badges in RotJ? I know the badges are different; I'm just sure this wasn't at least partially deliberate....

Thanks! --McEwok 00:05, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

• Oh lordy, lord...should I prepare myself for another edit war between you and VT-16? QuentinGeorge 00:20, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)
  • It's interesting to note that Curtis Saxton has removed a bunch of the Saxton-conjecture information that used to be on his rank/insignia pages. --SparqMan 00:31, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)
    • Oh? What, in particular? At least on a cursory inspection, all the little quirks that make me frown mildly while reading are still there (the most obvious being to rhetorically dismiss a lot of perfectly workable C-canon and to ignore several instances in ANH of officers with no rank cylinders); though that said, even if it is largely about fitting evidence to a fan-theory, it's still a massive resource, and an impressively-written argument: I can respect the intelligence, even if I disagree with it. --McEwok 16:19, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Be afraid... be very afraid...

I've just thrown up a [[Rank_Insignia_of_the_Galactic_Empire/temp|temp page]] for the rewrite. The icons need to be re-done, and the EU sections need to be wrestled into comprehensibility (it all makes sense - it's just hard to explain it!)... but I thought I'd better put it online... --McEwok 00:19, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

• This, I have to say, is an impressive work. I may not always agree with your ideas, but this is just nice. All so-called "Pro-Saxton" and "Anti-Saxton" viewpoints aside, this particular topic has been overrun by speculation for a long time, and if you can make some sense of the far-flung bits of evidence then more power to you. —Darth Culator (talk) 18:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

• </me blushes Eight-Ruling-Family red> Thank you. And you've not even seen the digest of every rank insignia I've been able to find drawn or described yet. Actually, it's really quite simple; by and large, the novels, comics and RPG have used the ranks and insignia laid out by WEG in [[The Imperial Sourcebook]], which are based primarily off ESB, and which could maybe even have been taken from movie production notes...
• All that said - criticism and suggestions are still welcome. This is still very much a work in evolution. And if anyone has official evidence that there really was a blooper in RotJ, that would be great! --McEwok 23:44, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Tie Fighter Rank Structure

"Given that the flight simulator ranks appear overly simplified and combine Navy and Army titles indiscriminately, most Star Wars sources consider the TIE Fighter ranks to be contradictory and this rank system is generally ignored." - The New Republic Naval rank structure used in the X-Wing novels/comics appears to follow the rank convention, and from what we see of the Imperial Navy in the book, it seems to follow it as well. If that's the case, shouldn't the language of the article reflect the reality of the situation? I wouldn't consider that rank system "generally ignored" if it is consistently and continually used throughout a nine novel and thirty-five comic series. Basilisk 01:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Temp page

Does anyone else think that the [[Rank Insignia of the Galactic Empire/temp|temp page]], being more detailed than our current page, should replace the current version? Or am I out to lunch here? —Silly Dan _(talk) 02:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

• No, I agree: the temp page looks much better; though I wonder why it was created in the first place (why not just edit the main article?) RMF 03:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Ah, I see, it looks like McEwok did a total rewrite. Still, it seems ready, though we should probably wait for input from McEwok before we replace it. RMF 03:02, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm still working on the temp page, and I suppose the real question is whether we retain the current organization of rank/uniform pages. But if there's a view that the temp page is detailed enough for a straight swap already, then by all means go ahead! --McEwok 17:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Snowtroopers

Do we have any proof, that the Snowtroopers on Hoth are really Stormtroopers? I always had the impression, that the attack was carried out by the Imperial Army and that those Snowtroopers were simply regular army soldiers with arctic gear. If you look at General Veers' battle armor, it looks almost the same as theirs, just in imperial grey. It would explain why the Snowtroopers wear rank badges and not full stormy armor.
Yaahg D'sow 15:00, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Snowtroopers are a branch of the Stormtrooper Corps, just like scout troopers and so on. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 15:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Is there any official source on that? The Scout Troopers don't have rank insignia and wear the typical Stormtrooper armor, while the armor of the snowtroopers seems to be a variation of the regular army troopers' protection.
    
    

The snow trooper in this example does not have a rank badge, but there are a few running around.

Yaahg D'sow 15:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• • I put a copy of this into the Snowtrooper discussion-section.
    

Yaahg D'sow 09:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Stormtrooper Armor Insignia

The main article notes the lack of armor insignia on Stormtrooper Battle Armor. Assuming the Stormtroopers themselves can tell rank (such as with a helmet transponder), wearing rank insignia simply tells the enemy who to shoot first. The shoulder boards are used on Tattoine because the troopers are running checkpoints and need to "tell" the populace which one's in charge. Remande 14:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• Well, the portrait pic in the main article about Snowtroopers clearly shows a Snowtrooper wearing an armor plate with a Lieutenant's or Captain's rank. That, and the similarities with the regular army gear made me wonder, if they were stormies at all. I have never seen any canonical source cleary showing them to be part of the Stormtroopers. If there is one, I shall be silent forever.........not.
  Yaahg D'sow 11:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• "Cold Assault Troops (Snowtroopers)" are the first of the "Specialist Stormtrooper Units" discussed on page 105 of the The Star Wars Sourcebook, with Blizzard Force being explicitly namechecked. The snowtroopers are also simply called "stormtroopers" in the ESB script. That said, your observation about the armour shared by Veers and Blizzard Force is sharp: there are a lot of Expanded Universe sources which show that this is the standard Imperial Army combat armour... and something very similar is also worn by the [[:File:Marines.jpg|Galactic Marines]] in the cold and ice of the Mygeeto during the Clone Wars. At a guess, cold-weather stormtroopers simply adapted existing cold-weather version of standard Army combat armour, which had been around for a while, probably since the days of the Old Republic...
• But that said, I should probably point out that I'm rewriting this entire page extensively [[Rank_Insignia_of_the_Galactic_Empire/temp|here]]. --McEwok 10:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• It's a good explaination, that the snowtroopers going in with Vader were Stormtroopers (they shoot E-11s and have no badges), while the Captain in the AT-AT might be Army. It could just be the imperial arctic infantry gear, used by all kinds of corps.
  Yaahg D'sow 12:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Snowtroopers are a division of the Stormtrooper Corps. Snowtroopers are specially trained. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 12:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Nevertheless, Yaahg D'sow has a point: unlike other stormtroopers, snowtroopers wear a variation of standard Imperial Army armour, which makes it possible that it's simply standard Imperial Army cold-weather gear, perhaps with minor variations. The Star Wars Sourcebook also says that snowtroopers tend to customize their equipment from standard to distinguish themselves: "Depending on the unit designation (Ice Storm, Snow Hawk, Wind Riders, Blizzard Force and so forth) each soldier wears slightly modifed and personalized armor". However, I'm not sure the fact that the officer has rank insignia is a problem in itself: Janek Sunber and the other officers of stormtrooper companies in recent issues of Empire and [[Star Wars: Rebellion (comic)|Rebellion]] have worn normal officers' uniforms and rank insignia... --McEwok 13:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• It would be the only example of a Stormtrooper in the movies to wear rank insignia. (The comic books tend to disregard canon often enough.) The guy on the Tantive IV, who talks to Vader about his concerns regarding the Senate's reaction, wears no insignia, just code cylinders - he is what I considered to be a "naked" Stormtrooper, although I could be wrong. I don't remember any examples from Episode VI.
  Yaahg D'sow 14:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Regarding the Episode V snowtroopers, Battlefront II treats it as if the 501st just used that armor, but I haven't seen any information anywhere saying that standard stormtrooper units could change gear depending on missions. I do know that each type of stormtrooper is trained for a specific duty, such as snowtroopers trained for cold weather operations. Therefore, snowtroopers are a type of stormtroopers, not stormtrooper wearing certain gear. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 14:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, but it begins to make sense. We know that Hoth had an extra-hostile environment, that forced the Rebel Alliance to adapt their entire vehicle pool to that harsh climate. Maybe the arctic-trained stormtroopers knew they'd face a similar dilemma and switched to the arctic infantry gear, which they wouldn't need on a "regular" ice planet or the arctic regions of a terrestrial world.
    Yaahg D'sow 16:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yaahg D'sow: you mean Daine Jir? The two images I've found both show him with a badge of four blue squares, which is reasonably common in ANH. Black uniforms disappear in ESB, and reappear with no insignia in RotJ, but we see some khaki-uniformed officers leading stormies on both Bespin and Endor, wearing normal rank insignia.
• Nebulax: agreed. Blizzard Force are a specialist unit; and I've been told that Galaxy Guide 3: The Empire Strikes Back says Executor diverted to pick them up from their base on the way to Hoth. But it's possible that some appropriately-trained troops from the 501st joined them, I suppose. --McEwok 16:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
• Yep, I meant Daine Jir, (Could his parents come up with a more stupid name?!) I think he doesn't wear rank badges in the scene I described, but given the images, I take back everything I said about stormtroopers in uniform and rank insignia and enter a state of utter confusion.
  Yaahg D'sow 16:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

That's okay. That happens a lot with Imperial rank insignia.... --McEwok 15:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• I think I mixed them up with naval subofficers. They don't wear badges, just cylinders. IF the description on theforce.net is correct.
  Yaahg D'sow 15:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

• There are some people in black uniforms in ANH, mostly leading stormtrooper groups, who don't wear badges or cylinders—but the main difference between them and the ones who do have badges may be that they lead stormtroopers; a number of black-uniformed personnel also show up without rank insignia in RotJ, but they are identified as officers by the CCG. As far as I'm aware, cylinders with no badges occur only in Star Wars computer games. I could be wrong, though, and I'd be interested to know if anyone had any further observations. --McEwok 17:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
• This is supposed to be a naval subofficer. I always thought these guys were Stormtroopers out of armor. The look on their faces isn't what I'd expect from regulars and they were more often than not in company of stormies.
  Yaahg D'sow 11:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
  

  

• Yes, that's the same image I linked to: it's from the computer game Rebel Assault II, as you can tell by the rows of TIE Phantoms in the background. I don't think we see anyone with cylinders but no badge in the movies, and I'm not sure where the claim about what this insignia means comes from: SWTC isn't always right about these things, and I don't know any canon evidence explicitly defining the role of black-uniformed Imperials without rank badges. Some of the specific background figures without badges or cylinders in RotJ have been identified as officers of varying ranks in the CCG. In short, you could be right, but I don't know of any explicit canon proof. --McEwok 15:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Well, I'm afraid the people at Lucascorp didn't put as much mind into the issue as we do. The badges make sense within one movie, but in the next everything is different. Another in-universe explaination could be ongoing military reforms being made over the last years of the Empire to mold the forces around the new "rule through fear"-policy of the Tarkin Doctrine, when the Death Star-project went into its final stages.
  Yaahg D'sow 13:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Broadly, I agree with you: there is an in-universe statement in The Imperial Soucebook that the rank insignia are reorganized after Yavin, with further reorganization anticipated; but the differences between ESB and RotJ insignia can be made to make sense if you assume two things that have some support in the EU: (a.) not all Imperial sector group "Admirals" actually hold the rank of Admiral; and (b.) capital ship commanding officers tend to wear a Captain's insignia, no matter their actual rank. I suspect that the fact that most things end up fitting together is just a coincidence, but I wouldn't completely rule out a properly-thought-out system from the ESB production design people at the back of it. --McEwok 14:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Good point. Commander or Commodore is not a real rank in many armies. It just describes, that the person, be it a Captain, Major or else has the command over the base/operation/group. I also bet rank cylinders are more than just metal pins - maybe it's not only their number or pattern that matters.
  Yaahg D'sow 12:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Supreme Moff?

Removed that crap. There has NEVER been any such rank in the SW universe. Another thing: The Visual Dictionary states that the orange shoulder pads worn by some Tatooine Stormtroopers is actually a sergeant's badge. Is this canon? If so, it should be mentioned. Custodes 08:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The Stormtrooper squad leader who arrests Luke and Leia in Splinter of the Mind's Eye also has an orange shoulder pad. Custodes 12:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Rank = power

I think we should put how many soliders key rank were in charge of

I know moff control atleast 24 star destroyers and that is 4 sectors

New Rank Badge Images

I'm not sure if anyone is still working on this as a lot of the comments on here are pretty old. Nonetheless, I put together a set of Imperial rank badges based off of the SWTC research and with some extrapolation to fill in the blanks. A lot of this then would be fanon, but at the very least there are updated images for the existing canon rank insignias that have been verified. If there is interest in these then I can provide them.

Included in the set are the extrapolated badges for ESB (red/blue two rows), the extrapolated images based on ANH (red, yellow, blue one row), the extrapolated badges based on the Grand Admiral's rank badge (red, yellow, blue, two row), ISB badges, conjectural Imperial Intelligence badges, Stormtrooper Corps, the Moffs and conjectural lower ranked government officers, and some more conjectural ranks such as Lord Admiral, Supreme Moff, as well as conjectural badge for Grand Vizier. I could also put together badges for any other branch so long as I know what they need to look like. Anyway, just reply here or something and I'll put them up if you want. Drake Colin Rene 04:54, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Deletion

Proposed for deletion. - Patricksheridan 7:05pm, January 11, 2007

• The result: the old temp page has become the new version. —Silly Dan _(talk) 05:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
  • So can we just trash this one, then? Jwebb13^HoloNet 02:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Uncategorized

Is this page supposed to be uncategorized? Ajrand 06:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Rank insignia redlinks.

Hi.

Two of the rank insignia images are currently redlinks. I verified the images still exist, so can we temporarily open the article so I can fix the redlinks? It's getting on my nerves. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 14:46, July 31, 2013 (UTC)