Talk: Of MSE-6 and Men

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Allay loo ta nuv!

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Re: the identity of the Alpha One-level officer... (warning: spoilers)

So... The unidentified Alpha One-level Imperial officer with whom TK-421 is having an affair is never named, but he must be Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin. He refers to himself as an "old man", has veermok hide in his bedroom and implies he's personally encountered these creatures, has a meeting with the Joint Chiefs, has to give a "presentation" that went explosively well, is present on the Overbridge during the Battle of Yavin, and his voice in the audiobook is a Peter Cushing impersonation. Is that enough to determine it's indeed Tarkin? I do believe so. --Lelal Mekha ^{(Audience Room)} 17:14, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'd argue the author has shown this is his intent on Twitter, though indirectly.bzzz--ZapikCZ (talk) 17:20, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
- Okay, but if it's never stated then it can't be true confirmation. Also, would Tarkin really have an affair with a lowly stormtrooper? Through reading the material he has been in while working on his page, it seems to me that he is always very military minded, and not the type to take any leave of duty or to relax. This would be especially apparent at such an important time, with the recent start of the galactic civil war, the loss of the Death Star plans, the disbanding of the senate, the destruction on Alderaan and the fact that he is very close to finding/believes he has found the rebel base. I'm not trying to contradict canon, and if the author clearly says that it was Tarkin, I'll be the first to update the page. I'm just trying to point out that while there is lots of evidence that it was Tarkin, that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. - Tommy-Macaroni ^(Talk) 20:02, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
  - Well I think the authors intention is pretty clear here, I doubt we'll get a yes or no answer anytime soon so its down to us to decide what we do from here --Lewisr (talk) 13:30, October 7, 2017 (UTC)
    - With this article I'm guessing we're assuming it is Tarkin then. - Tommy-Macaroni ^(Talk) 16:32, October 16, 2017 (UTC)
      - I support that. It seems the most logical conclusion regarding everything mentioned above. -- User:JediMasterSam, 20:29, November 23, 2017 (UTC)

Who is the reader(s) of the Audible version of this story? It sounds like Mark Hamill reading TK421. If so, that is hilarious! —Unsigned comment by SithWItch (talk • contribs)

I don't want to be that guy that ruins everyone's fun, but it can't be Tarkin. Though it adds up regarding the authority and that Tarkin has experienced similar experiences, its said that A) He's an officer and B) during the detonation of the Death Star, the Mouse droid is with the officer as the officer talks to him, where as Tarkin is on the Command Bridge. I like the idea that it's Tarkin but it doesn't add up DoucheLaGargen (talk) 00:05, January 8, 2018 (UTC)

In answer to point B), the character that finds the droid just after he's damaged by an explosion but just before the Death Star is destroyed is not the "officer" character - MSE-6 is struggling to identify the bioform just before he's destroyed, and he gets as far as identifying that it's a Stormtrooper but can't get as far as the specific designation. If someone else can verify what I've said, we could correct the end of the plot synopsis which would pave the way for greater confidence in the "Officer = Tarkin" theory. —Unsigned comment by 158.106.52.10 (talk • contribs)

Again…

Okay, so with the recent social media CT, we can't rely on the author's intentions. Due to this, we only have what's presented in the story. As Tarkin's name is never specifically mentioned, surely it's assumption to say it's him?—Tommuskq ^{(TAKE A SEAT)} 07:55, February 11, 2018 (UTC)

Without the tweets, the only "evidence" left is Tarkin's voice imitation in the audiobook. If that's not enough then we will need to do some corrections and move Wilhuff Tarkin's penthouse--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 08:02, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
- Does the narrator who voices Tarkin in this instance voice him in any other stories within the book? --Lewisr (talk) 22:45, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
  - Going by this, possibly.—Tommy-Macaroni ^{(TAKE A SEAT)} 22:48, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
    - I will have a listen through in a while to find out, if not then I think we'll have to make some changes --Lewisr (talk) 22:51, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
      - Thanks for that.—Tommy-Macaroni ^{(TAKE A SEAT)} 22:53, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
        The Tarkin heard on Change of Heart and this story seem to be the same, both were narrated by Marc Thompson. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:11, February 12, 2018 (UTC)
        Yeah after listening to the Tarkin dialogue from both stories, I think they are the same --Lewisr (talk) 00:13, February 12, 2018 (UTC)
        Let's face it, even without the "vocal" evidence, everything points toward Tarkin. The fact that we're reluctant to admit it because nobody explicitely told us so might come off as a bit hypocritical. --Lelal Mekha ^{(Audience Room)} 14:43, June 14, 2018 (UTC)

Reasoning for identifications of appearances in the story

I'm breaking this down into tables with separate headers because of the length. In summary, this lays out the reasoning behind the identifications made on this article and on related articles. Largely, it explains the identification of Wilhuff Tarkin, which has previously been discussed on this talk page, the Tarkin article's talk page, and in the WookieeProject: Pride Discord channel as a subject under our project scope.

In revising the plot summary myself, I chose to maintain the style established by prior editors and within the story—that is, not providing text identifications of characters and events, instead sticking with MSE-6-G735Y's point of view. For instance, names are not given for the "bioforms" who are "designation unknown" to G7 (Blagg gets named by the officer), and the Death Star is never actually called that. As G7 operates with limited information, readers have to bring their knowledge of A New Hope and other SW sources with them to "translate" G7's diagnostics and the dialogue from other characters. I've tried to clearly mark knowingly speculating about something versus what I believe is a non-speculative view of the information given. These ordered by their appearance in the story. Immi Thrax (talk) 18:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Abbreviations

Some initials used may not be abbreviations for anything, but are instead random. In the absence of other indicators of possible meaning, I've made this "no meaning" assumption for: Sector AA-345; Dynadrive 9-ES Motors; Servo, Imperial Scanner 97-DX-8; Sector XR-8.

Abbreviation is..	Meaning must be...	Reasoning
DS-1OBS Network	DS-1 Orbital Battle Station Network	Since the diagnostic shortly after identifies G7's assignment as "DS-1 Orbital Battle Station", "DS-1OBS" is a clear abbreviation for that, making this the network of DS-1OBS.
DS-1 Orbital Battle Station	Death Star	Another story later in FACPOV, "End of Watch", uses the same designation to refer to the Death Star. Separate sources use the full identification "DS-1 Death Star Mobile Battle Station."
DB-228	Docking Bay 228	TK-421 has G7 deliver a part to Docking Bay 228, and G7 identifies its arrival at DB-228, therefore DB = Docking Bay. This also establishes that the letters of some (not necessarily all) sectors are abbreviations.
DS-1OBS Database	DS-1 Orbital Battle Station Database	As with "DS-1OBS Network."
Officer's Quarters—Sector GM1-A	Unknown, but it is located "up" from Sector AA-345	SPECULATION: "1-A" may refer to Security Level Alpha One or be the firstmost room of the officer's quarters. "GM" may be an abbreviation of Grand Moff.
Corridor 327E-6 and Turbolift Bank 301-E	Corridor connected to Docking Bay 327 and a turbolift bank's access on 300 Level	These are introduced in relation to Docking Bay 327 and TK-421's reassignment to 300 Level. A corridor is also where a mouse droid encounters (and runs away from) Chewbacca, Han, and Luke in ANH, and this is that mouse droid's story.
100 Level, Sector GM1-B, Corridor L104E	Unknown, but G7 detects that an explosion happens there.	SPECULATION: If GM1-A is indeed related to Alpha One, GM1-B may be Beta One. Corridor L104E is likely on 100 Level in keeping with 300 Level and Docking Bay 327.

Brief identifiers of appearances

Identifiers	Identification	Reasoning
TK-450: "Tarkin's pet, the iron lung in a cape"	Darth Vader	Subordinate to Tarkin in ANH, requires breathing assistance, wears a cape. (Evidently, TK-450 isn't a Vader fan.)
TK-421: "Clean lines, nice soothing gray color palette, and the lighting's, like, seriously flattering." [...] "Lighting the walls, not the ceilings" [...] "long...thin, uh, vertical...wall-ovals" [...] "Moon-sized planet vaporizer" [...] "orbital death machine"	Death Star	Descriptions are consistent with the Death Star and the story's setting hasn't changed from DS-1 Orbital Battle Station.
The female prisoner in Detention Block AA-23 is scheduled for interrogation with an IT-O interrogator droid that uses a hypodermic needle.	Leia Organa	In ANH, C-3PO identifies Leia's location as Detention Block AA-23, and she is a female prisoner who is interrogated by a needle-wielding droid that other sources identify as an IT-O Interrogation Unit.
TK-421 guards a captured light freighter in Docking Bay 327.	The Millennium Falcon	The Falcon is a light freighter that's captured and held in Docking Bay 327, where it's guarded by TK-421 before he's tricked inside and has his armor stolen and worn by Luke.
TK-421's helmet ID geosync beacon is initially in Docking Bay 327. G7 encounters three bioforms leaving it: 1. a Wookiee who initiates an "aggression display," sending G7 fleeing in self-preservation mode, 2. someone G7 identifies as TK-710, and 3. someone initially identifies as TK-421 before G7 realizes he's 12.7 cm shorter than TK-421	Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, and Chewbacca	G7 appearance in ANH is being roared at by the Wookiee Chewbacca and fleeing. Han Solo's with him in stormtrooper armor and TK-710 is a stormtrooper-style designation. Luke is famously "a little short for a stormtrooper" and wore TK-421's stolen armor.
"Rebel base, 30 seconds and closing." [...] "Rebel base, in range." Soon after, nothing.	Rebel base on Yavin 4	These are direct quotes from the film when the Death Star approaches Yavin 4 and is destroyed. The abbreviations used above also indicate this is the Death Star.

Identifying the officer

Identifiers	Significance	Tarkin comparison
Security Level Alpha One, Alpha-One level clearance, Priority Alpha One (commands), Imperial Protocol Alpha One	TK-421's level is "Lambda," later upgraded to "Beta;" Lieutenant Blagg's is "Gamma" and G7 explicitly identifies this as superseding Lamba-level. This establishes that the use of the Greek alphabet for security levels is in descending order. As the beginning of the Greek alphabet, "Alpha" must be the highest security level. Further, G7 analyzes (with the all-caps removed) that "bioform issuing voice command holds Alpha-One-level clearance, supersedes all known commands and subroutines." He issues Imperial Protocol Alpha One: "bioform voice command overrides all previous directives. reset." The Alpha One's orders have priority over everything. The order given with that protocol is: "Of those instructions I have just issued, there will exist no holorecord. No geosync data. No routine uplink to the Imperial network. Instead you will shunt those instructions, and all ensuing related subroutines, to my personal ephemeradata-neurocloud, where they will be hosted until such time as you carry them out, when they will be summarily scrambled and expunged from your memory."	Tarkin is shown to be the highest authority on the Death Star in ANH and elsewhere to be nearly the highest in the entire Empire (after Darth Sidious, of course), which would give him the highest security level on the Death Star even if he wasn't its commander. SPECULATION: The "One" in "Alpha One" is either the highest even amongst the Alpha level, the first Alpha level issued, and/or represents a single number amongst multiple Alpha level beings; any of these may apply to Tarkin. He likely has the power and means to maintain a "personal ephemeradata-neurocloud" separate from the Imperial network."
Blagg asks the officer if they'll begin interrogating the prisoner together after he installs the droid's needle.	The officer has clearance to receive intelligence from prisoner interrogations and know the timing of this prisoner's interrogation.	SPECULATION: Tarkin, among other characters, fits. Whether or not he normally conducts interrogations, Blagg may just assume he is sadistic enough to get himself involved this time.
"That's Vader's work. He does so...relish it. I just came down to ensure you were on schedule. I've had reports." [...] "As for your prisoner, Vader will be down to interrogate her presently." [...] "She must tell us what she knows; that is your only priority."	The officer is aware that Vader will be doing the interrogation; he is privy to that information. He is also familiar enough with Vader to knowingly say that Vader would "relish it," and refers to him as simply "Vader" rather than "Lord Vader." He is positioned to receive reports regarding the status of the prisoner's interrogation and has a particular investment in learning what she knows. This is not a routine visit for him and makes Blagg panic.	Tarkin told the others in the Death Star conference room that "Lord Vader will provide us with the location of the rebel fortress by the time this station is operational," and getting Leia to reveal the location of the Rebel base was his priority for much of ANH, making it a defining motivation. He has known Vader for 20-something years at this point, and only Tarkin, Obi-Wan, and Leia (after she's take prisoner) refer to or address Darth Vader as simply "Vader" in ANH; this can't be Obi-Wan or Leia. He is the full "Lord Vader" to Tarvyn Lareka, Praji, Conan Antonio Motti, and Tanbris (what's his canon name?) in ANH. Earlier in the anthology, Motti's "An Incident Report" uses "Lord Vader" except when referring to "Tagge and Vader's line of argument;" using just "Vader" and lacking hostility towards him rule out Motti as a possibility, and the others are additionally ruled out by other story details.
"but of course...only once you've had adequate time to prepare the interrogator droid. I shouldn't wish to rush you."	Sarcastic.	SPECULATION: Tarkin is characteristically sarcastic, though hardly the only sarcastic character.
"I've repaired your systems, inasmuch as an old man remembers basic droid mechanics from his Academy days."	He's an old man who went to an Academy.	SPECULATION: Tarkin is one of several visibly old men who attended a capital-A Academy; Tarkin attended two: Sullust Sector Spacefarers Academy and the Republic's Judicial Academy. He did not, however, go to an Imperial Academy.
"My lovely new carpet, which—not that your rudimentary sensors would be sensitive enough to register it—is Coruscant fiberweave. A single square centimeter of which is worth more than 100 vermin-droids like yourself, put together."	While an MSE-6's cost isn't given, this establishes that Coruscant fiberweave is extremely expensive. The officer either has a taste for luxurious things, displays his wealth in impractical ways, or both. He cleaned up G7 to prevent the droid dirtying the carpet, and subsequently tells TK-421 to take off his armor with the explanation that it's to avoid tracking on it.	SPECULATION: The Tarkin novel established that the Tarkin family is the "nouveau riche" variety of wealthy: "While Tarkin had been raised with all the advantages that came with wealth, it was a curious kind of privilege. In mansions that strived to emulate the architectural fashions of the Core but were little more than gaudy imitations of the originals, the Tarkins and others like them did their best to mimic the customs of the affluent, without ever succeeding. Their hardscrabble roots were far too apparent, and life on Eriadu seemed barbaric compared with life on cosmopolitan Coruscant." Along with Vader, he's second only to Palpatine in rank, which likely comes with a hefty salary in addition to family wealth. But he's not the only rich Imperial around.
TK-421: "I play this right, I could get us that transfer to Coruscant. And if I play this very right, I could get us... anything."	TK-421 knows that the officer has significant influence and power to make things happen for him.	SPECULATION: Again, Tarkin is just below the Emperor himself and could presumably provide "anything;" however, others could fit this.
TK-421: "He's a graysuit, he went through the Academy."	Simply: this is an Imperial officer with a "graysuit" uniform, not white or black.	SPECULATION: This could mean a few people, but rules out the non-graysuited. TK-421 likely means an Imperial Academy; this could be an intentional indication that he's not Tarkin, a retcon, or may simply be a continuity error not caught in editing.
Officer: "On the chair next to the bed, trooper....That's veermok hide, by the way. Nasty creatures." (audio clip)	Veermok is a species that also has a subspecies, Eriadu veermok, from Eriadu. They are indeed nasty creatures, and the officer is familiar with them.	In canon, Tarkin is from Eriadu and very, very much acquainted with his homeplanet's version of veermok as shown in Tarkin. They're basically his origin story; as a teenager, he defeats a pack of veermok at the Carrion Spike, learns to control others through fear, and subsequently names his personal starship Carrion Spike after the location where he conquered the veermok pack.
Officer: "I've got to...prepare for a meeting with the Joint Chiefs."	The Joint Chiefs seen meeting in ANH are Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin, Colonel Wullf Yularen, General Hurst Romodi, General Trech Molock, Chief of the Imperial Navy Admiral Conan Antonio Motti, Chief of the Imperial Army General Cassio Tagge, Chief Major Siward Cass, and Moradmin Bast; Darth Vader was also present. The officer is most likely a member of this group, not just meeting with them as a non-member.	SPECULATION: Tarkin is, of course, one of the Joint Chiefs. Vader's earlier mention by the officer rules out Vader. This story depicts multiple days and events, but the story immediately prior in the anthology was "The Trigger" and depicted Tagge on Dantooine investigating Leia's claim, while earlier in this story, TK-450 said that "General Tagge was up here yesterday." The order of stories in the anthology may rule out Tagge. Motti was already ruled out and Yularen is a whitesuit. That leaves Tarkin, Romodi, Molock, Cass, or Bast.
TK-421's security level has been upgraded to Beta	"Beta" is 9 letters up from "Lambda" and one below "Alpha," which makes this a large upgrade.	SPECULATION: This may give the officer the ability to talk more freely about things without it being above TK-421's security level to know about, and Tarkin seems like the type to care about that.
TK-421 re: memory wiping G7: "'An abundance of caution,' he says. He talks like that. In the long run, it's for the best. Don't take it personally, okay? He's...got a lot on him. Lot going on. He's very stressed." [...] "He's got this shell, you know. This icy exterior. He has to, everything's riding on him. But with me, he can drop it, and just be himself."	The officer is keeping his personal life extremely private and off-record. He is busy and has responsibility for "everything." He's known for being icy, but there's more to him.	SPECULATION: In ANH, Tarkin is characteristically icy with moments of anger and sarcasm. He has the ultimate responsibility for everything on the Death Star. Aftermath: Life Debt established that Imperial loyalty officers used a target's relationships when questioning their loyalty, so the "abundance of caution" has a basis.
TK-421: "And then, G7: Coruscant. You on the droid racing circuit. Me set up in his penthouse" [...] "It's got a balcony that faces the Imperial Palace ruins so, you know. Pret-tee sweet."	This again shows a position of significance and wealth, having not just a penthouse but one overlooking the Imperial Palace.	SPECULATION: Tarkin is one character who fits the profile. Side note: "ruins"?
Officer: "I've had a terribly, terribly exciting day at work—gave a presentation that went just exceedingly well—explosively well."	Immediately after TK-421 reports for Millennium Falcon guard duty, the officer refers to being the one who gave a "presentation" "explosively," and is excited about it.	The biggest explosion preceding the arrival of the Falcon was blowing up Alderaan, which Tarkin was pleased to do, and he used some euphemisms for it in saying "I would like you to be my guest at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational" and that blowing up a planet is "an effective demonstration."
Officer: "Find him. Bring him here. Immediately."	Demonstration of speaking style.	SPECULATION: Compare to: "Terminate her! Immediately!" Not necessarily a mark of his speaking style, but may be.
Officer: "In mere seconds, this station will annihilate the last pitiful dregs of the Rebellion, and your master will be avenged."	Demonstration of speaking style and personality.	Compare to: "We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke."
Officer: "This rebel attack on the station is inconsequential. They are pests, mynocks, vaporizing themselves against our outermost defenses. Ignore them, and whatever minor damage they manage to incur before snuffing themselves out."	Demonstration of speaking style and personality.	Compare to: "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!"
Officer: "You shall stand witness to the awesome destructive power of this battle station." (audio clip)	Demonstration of speaking style and personality.	Compare to: "I think it is time we demonstrated the full power of this station" and "Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."
Officer: "I am headed to the command bridge."	When the Death Star ceased to exist, the officer was on the Overbridge.	SPECULATION: Tarkin was indeed there among other characters when the Death Star exploded.
Voice used in From a Certain Point of View audiobook	Establishes what this character's voice sounds like when performed by a certain voice actor.	The audiobook performance of the officer's voice matches the performance of Tarkin in "Change of Heart" earlier in the anthology, as well as in Thrawn: Treason, as read by Marc Thompson. For comparison, StarWars.com has a Thrawn: Treason sample chapter (at the bottom of the article), and we have "Of MSE-6 and Men" samples (here and here). If it quacks like a duck...

Discussion

If you wish to discuss the above further, please reply under here. Immi Thrax (talk) 18:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)