Talk: Anakin Skywalker/Legends/Archive4

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More pic removal

I believe that several sections of the Anakin article are rather image-heavy. Now, for continuity's sake, at least one image per section/subsection etc. is just fine, but some of these sections have waaaay too many images. If others are in agreement, then may I suggest some images to be removed? If they are approved, I don't mind doing the moving/adjusting work myself, I don't mind at all, it's just that I'm not particularly keen on going overboard image-wise. -Solus 01:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I've been saying this for some time. A good rule of thumb: No more than 2 pics should be appear on a "screen" at a time. QuentinGeorge 02:00, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hm, that's a pretty good rule. Never thought of that. Um, do any object to me showing the pics I think need to be removed? -Solus 02:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  - I object to the removal of pictures. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 03:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
    - I don't. There such thing as image overkill - the images should serve the article, not vice-versa. .... 03:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Jack, why do you object? Remember, this is an article. Text is the main focus of it. Pictures are merely used to support that text. If they distract from the article itself, they should be removed. QuentinGeorge 03:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Besides, if you want to see all of the pictures, you can look in the gallery. One image I think can go is File:Ansion.jpg as you can hardly even see him in it.--Lord Oblivion^{Sith holocron}30px 04:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Yeah, ax it. .... 04:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        All right. I'm sorry, Jack, but I am going to put up several pictures I think can be removed. We can discuss them here.

I know I'm being harsh here, but that's what discussion's for, right? -Solus 12:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason I objected is because there's no rule that says only a certain amount of pictures can be put in a single section. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm ok with taking out 3, 4, and 7.--Lord Oblivion^{Sith holocron}30px 16:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- I know there's no limit to how many images you can insert per section. It, in all honesty, would be a silly rule. But for aesthetics' sake, some of the pics should be removed. It just doesn't look good when there are too many images. Do any have any objections to taking out images 3, 4, and 7? -Solus 18:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Nope. Darth Abeonis _{Sith Council} ^{(Sith Campaign)} 19:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Uhm, for 7, I would prefer replacement - surely there's a good image of Vader in the SOTME graphic novel? .... 20:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
      - So I don't count as an objection? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        4dot: I don't have the SOTME comic, so I wouldn't know. Nebulax: Of course your objection counts. I just don't know what you object to, specifically. What do you object to and why? Specifically, which images do you not want removed? I am not being facetious or sarcastic, I promise. I've read a lot of Talk pages and I respect you and your opinions. The only thing is you have not told us why you, personally, do not want certain images removed. -Solus 21:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        I don't think any images should be removed because they contribute to the article. They put the text into visual intereptations. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        Okay. Seeing things that way, I understand why images 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10 should not be removed: they give insight to the article that helps give the reader a visual and thus support the article. That makes sense. However, Image 3 is referenced in the article in the picture below it: in Image 3 it shows Anakin fighting Dooku using Form IV. In the next article image it shows Anakin who has won against Dooku using Form IV. Same fight, two different 'angles' (if you will) of it, right next to each other. It is redundant. My reason for getting rid of Image 3 instead of the other one is because the other one shows Anakin's mastery of Form VI because he is standing over Dooku's corpse: it shows the same thing as Image 3, except in greater detail. Image 9 is not in the Bio, but in physical appearance, and a Kentucky-fried Anakin is shown in the next image, in the same section. Also, grilled Ani is already shown in Duel on Mustafar and Aftermath. What I would do is get rid of crispy Anakin and move up the other burned-up Anakin, making it more spaced out and less cluttered. My reason for axing Image 8, is, not so much to get rid of it, but unless I move the 'Vader Redemption' pic up, which would not match the text, it does not fit in the section and looks sloppy. My reason for getting rid of Image 10 is, though it is one of my favorite pics, it crowds the Appearances section. The Infinities Vader looked better there, and Image 10 fits nowhere else. These are my reasons. I hope you understand why. Thank you for giving me a chance to see it from your point of view, I hope you can understand mine. -Solus 22:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
The only image I support removing is #3. All the rest I say keep, my reasons are the same as J. Nebulax. - Impassioned Jedi 11:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- I guess I have to agree with that. It's actually kind of blurry. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 12:15, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  - That's fine with me. I don't mind removing just one, not at all. I was just going to leave this talk section to rot anyhow. Heh. If there are no objections, I'll ax it and adjust the images. -Solus 15:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Cyborg—infobox mention?

Okay, cyborg isn't a species. But after the Duel on Mustafar, Vader was, as Obi-Wan said, half man and half machine. Considering this, I believe it should be mentioned in the "Species" field of the infobox as it had been for a long time (without any issues, might I add, until now). Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I can totally see where you're coming from. I just think that the fact that he's a cyborg doesn't change the fact that he's still Human. It's not like his brain was mechanized. --Imp 21:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, it does still say that he's human. I always liked the fact that the infobox would tell you from the get-go they they're a cyborg. .... 21:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  - But how will you define cyborg? At what degree of mechanization do we add (cyborg) to someone's infobox? --Imp 21:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Imp, as Thefourdot said, Human is still there, and cyborg would be in paratheses. No one ever said that he wasn't Human. As for defining cyborg: When a being has a mechanical part in place of regular flesh. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
      - So Luke Skywalker is a cyborg, then? --Imp 21:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        Yup. .... 21:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        Yes indeed. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        That's ridiculous. Oh well, I'll let it slide for now. On the large-scale cyborgs (not Luke). --Imp 21:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        Then let's here your definition of cyborg. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        You can't just make concessions like "large scale" you either have to have it or you don't. .... 21:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        Excellent point. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        Then we don't have it. Cyborg is not a species. As long as it's mentioned in the article (preferably in the opening paragraphs) it's fine. Consensus, anyone? - \\Captain Kwenn// ^{— Ahoy!} 21:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
        As said, cyborg is not a species, but it deserves to be mentioned in the infobox. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
There's two definitions of "cyborg", per the cyborg article. One referring to any person with a mechanized part, and the other referring to individuals who are "half-organic half-droid". I suppose I disagree with the first definition, and would like to see specific proof for it.=) --Imp 21:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- I would like to see proof against it. At what point do you say "Oh no, he's more this than that. This is this. This is not something else. This is this." It's going to get violent, so let's try and sort this out quick-sharpish. .... 21:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright... here goes:

"He is a borg who died last night. You know the term, I'm sure…. Half Human… half mechanical droid."

―"Pera"^[src]

From Star Wars 7. --Imp 22:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

And at what point do we say that this is half a man, or this is 51% so it's not a cyborg. I'm sorry, it's too intangible for us to be able to keep it in check. .... 22:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- When it's evident that the individual in question relies on mechanized parts for multiple body functions. --Imp 22:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Well, Anakin could use the Force to hover around...it's still not enough. .... 22:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
    - This is ridiculous. I looked it up on the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the definition for cyborg there is simply "a bionic human". It doesn't say something like "to be a cyborg, you must be half man and half robot". Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Exactly. And just for fun, Marvel is S-Canon. .... 00:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
        Besides, cyborg's where I wanted to be, so my goal of this topic has been achieved. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Additionally, people regularly use the term "half" very imprecisely, sometimes even as a synonym of "partly." jSarek 04:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
        1) Marvel is C-canon. 2) OOU definitions don't count. So far, you two haven't been able to cough up any IU proof. --Imp 06:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
        Ah-ah-ah, Marvel is S-Canon unless referenced by a C or G canon source. Chee said so. .... 07:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I brought up this same point over at Talk:Darth Malak and I totally agree with Imp. "Cyborg" simply does not fit in the "species" field. "Species", in this context, refers to an individual's biological classification. As long as an individual retains some biological components, cybernetic enhancements simply do not change that individual's species classification. Even Grevious should not be classified as a cyborg. No matter how much he has been altered, he is biologically a Kaleesh. Perhaps we should add an "enhancements" or "cybernetics" field to the character infoboxes… –Sentry^Talk 07:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think that would be best. .... 08:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  - The fact that he had mechanical parts in place of organic parts makes him a cyborg, and that should be mentioned as it always was in the species field. Yes, it's not a species, but as of becoming a cyborg, Vader wasn't wholy Human. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 12:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Show me an official source that refers to a person with only one cybernetic enhancement as a cyborg. --Imp 13:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
      - The New Essential Guide to Droids had a page on cyborgs that would probably clear this up. I'm at school, so I can't check it. -LtNOWIS 14:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        Imp: Why are you so against using a real-world definition here? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        Because there's an IU definition that doesn't match the real-world definition. Also, because I think putting (cyborg) in the species field is silly, as it has nothing to do with species. --Imp 22:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        1) What is this IU definition? 2) It has plenty to do with the species. When Anakin lost an arm, he lost a part of what made him Human. The mechanical arm replaced that, making him a cyborg. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

"He is a borg who died last night. You know the term, I'm sure…. Half Human… half mechanical droid."

―"Pera"^[src]

That would be the IU definition right there. Also, are you implying people with prosthetics are less Human than people with all limbs intact? --Imp 22:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

First: That's only one person's view of the term "cyborg", not the galactic definition. Second: In a way, yes. They are still Human, but they have mechanical parts to make up for lost limbs and such. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- While it may just be one person's view, it's the only IU definition so far… Also, I deeply disagree with your stance on prosthetics. --Imp 22:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  - 1) Just because it's the only IU definition does not mean it's the correct definition. 2) Why don't you explain how you deeply disagree with my stance on prosthetics? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
    - 1) I am aware of that, and I'll back down the moment I see another IU definition. 2) Calling specific groups of people "less Human" just seems awfully familiar… like something these guys and supporters of this would say. --Imp 23:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Sorry, the above was out of line. I just generally am opposed to such labelling. --Imp 23:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        By "less Human", I'm not saying that they're inferior. I'm just saying that the loss of a limb can make one physically less Human. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 23:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        So you are saying that whatever species a character is when they become a cyborg, they are still that species, only less so. Correct?Tocneppil 21:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

What the Hell? (Darth Vader's regency)

I'm a bit concerned by the archiving of current discussions. Actually, I'm very concerned. Anyway, Jack, we'll continue the Vader as Regent debate here. .... 06:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

My fault. Lord knows this page needed to be drastically shortened, though. Of course, only after did I realize I had archive an active topic. Sorry.--Lord Oblivion^{Sith holocron}30px 07:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- It's OK, it's just that it's this is the second time this talk page has undergone a complete overhaul in the last few days. This could have been avoided if someone hadn't dumped the contents of Talk:Anakin Skywalker and Talk:Darth Vader here after the merge. .... 08:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  - "Even so, Vader's regency deserves a mention...if not a succession box." I think a succession box is a bad idea, but how do you propose mentioning it? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 12:12, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Since Vader was next in line, as hinted to by Palpatine and stated by Vader in ROTS (since he wanted to kill him and take his throne), it should at least be mentioned in a short blurb that he technically was Emperor for the last few minutes of his life in ROTJ, just as Grievous was the leader of the confederacy for the last few days of the CW and then Nute Gunray or the entire Separatist Council in the few hours after his death. VT-16 20:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Still, five minutes shouldn't warrant a succession box. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
        And I'm sure executing the sitting sovereign and rejecting all allegience to the man and, presumably, the Empire he founded is a pretty strong reason to think he gave up all claim to the position. jSarek 21:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
        Yeah. He didn't want to be Emperor, so he wasn't. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
        No, since there was no Emperor at the time, he automatically became de facto Emperor. And how do you know it was five minutes? It could have taken an hour to get to the docking bay. At any rate he was acting Emperor for a short time, which does deserve some sort of succession box mention. .... 08:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        I don't see how someone who abdicated all relationship with the Emperor, committed high treason by killing the Emperor, never issued a single Imperial directive as Emperor, was never recognized by anyone as Emperor, wasn't in the line of succession to Emperor (since there WAS no such line), and didn't survive long enough for people in the Imperial chain of command to even know he'd outlived the Emperor, could be regarded as Emperor, de facto or otherwise. jSarek 09:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        Simple answer. He wasn't. Darth Abeonis _{Sith Council} ^{(Sith Campaign)} 09:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        Be that as it may, he was for the last half of SOTE. .... 09:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        No, he wasn't. Palpatine gave him the powers. He could have done the same for Tarkin. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 11:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
        Yeah...regency. .... 22:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
        Enough. You have no actual proof that Vader was next in line. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        No, no, you misundertand me. jSarek's explaination and rationalising has made me accept that there is no "heir" structure to Palpatine's throne. However, he did have regency during the end of SOTE. Worth a mention, if not an infobox. .... 00:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        If you mean regency=giving his powers to Vader for a short time, then you're sadly mistaken, my friend. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        Really. Give us your definition of regency. I'm dying to hear. .... 00:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        Stop acting like a smart ass, Thefourdot. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Ditto. And take a look at this while you're at it. .... 00:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- And again, just because Palpatine gave Vader his powers for a short time does not automatically make Vader Regent. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  - A Person appointed to administer a State because the monarch is a minor or is absent or incapacitated. Palpatine at end of SOTE=Absent. Vader at end of SOTE=temporary ruler of the Empire. Vader at end of SOTE=Regent. .... 00:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
    - No, you miss the point. Vader was never canonically made Regent. Just because Vader was granted Palpatine's powers for a short time does not, I repeat, does not, automatically make him Regent. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Thrawn was never canoninically made Emperor. Yet he is listed as a de facto Emperor. So, Vader would be a de facto Regent. .... 00:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        Touche. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        It could easily be handled by an infobox. Like so: .... 01:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Galactic Emperor (de facto regent)

Palpatine

←

4 ABY

Palpatine

→

I still say only a mention in the article, not an infobox. A couple of minutes doesn't warrant an infobox, in my opinion. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm talking SOTE here, as well as ROTJ. In SOTE, I believe it's a couple of weeks. .... 01:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  - But that would only make things a lot more complicated. It would be like this: Palpatine, Vader (de facto regent), Palpatine, and then Vader (de facto regent). Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Yup. I'm willing to let the ROTJ thing go, but the SOTE thing is vital. .... 01:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
      - But that still wouldn't really warrant a succession box. Palpatine was still alive, after all. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        If you want to get technical, he was still alive when Thrawn was about. .... 01:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        True, but at that time, no one knew he was alive. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
        Still, he "handed over" his powers to Vader for a short time. .... 01:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Still, five minutes shouldn't warrant a succession box.

I read of a man the other day who recieved a medal for his service to our country and died five minutes later. That still means he got the medal and it was noted. Whether Vader wanted what he now got or not, isn't relevant. He was the next in line. VT-16 08:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Err, this is just silly. Vader died before being officially appointed, therefore he was never Emperor. --Imp 11:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Err, VT. Thats a really really bad example. The problem is, he was only Emperor for a few weeks at most (and even that is disputed by myself and others), a succession box really isn't needed. Darth Abeonis _{Sith Council} ^{(Sith Campaign)} 11:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Exactly. Perhaps a note saying he was possibly Regent, but nothing else. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 12:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Well, Thrawn never officialy took the title and he was in that position for what? A few months? .... 22:25, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
      - It's completely different because Thrawn actually control a large portion of the Empire. Vader didn't even control a single soul. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 00:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        I'm talking SOTE here, where Vader controlled the whole Empire bar Palpatine himself. .... 01:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        I'd still like to see a quote. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Well, I don't have the book on me, but I believe there is a quote along the lines of "I rule the Empire now, Xizor, not Palpatine". But that may contain some wild paraphrasing. We need someone with the book. .... 01:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        But even if Vader controlled the Empire for a short time in SotE, that's not enough for an infobox. When real-life rulers become sick, their regent doesn't actually take their position unless the current ruler dies. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Correct...they become a regent! .... 01:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        You missed my point. I only said that because the regent doesn't take their position while the current ruler is sick. I was only saying why there shouldn't be a succession box for Vader as Emperor. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Well, there should be something... .... 01:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Yes, a mention in the article. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 01:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        I hope you don't think I'm being rude or anything, and, if so I apologize. But I own SOTE, and I've looked for the sentance to which 4Dot is referring. Here it is, between Vader and Xizor, starting with Vader:

"You have two standard minutes to recall your vessels and to offer yourself into my custody."
"I will not. I will take this up with the Emperor."
"The Emperor is not here. I speak for the Empire, Xizor."

―Darth Vader and Xizor^[src]

I hope you don't think I'm biased or anything, because I'm not. The discussion just got me curious, so I looked it up. I apologize if this offends anyone, but that's what the book says. -Solus 04:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

That's the line I was thinking of. Good stuff, Solus. .... 05:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

he was only Emperor for a few weeks at most

Err, he died minutes later. Dead people do not rule anything. Vader was the de facto Emperor when Palpatine died, because he was next in line, though he never got to enjoy it, nothing more. VT-16 07:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Err, we're talking SOTE here. Do try and catch up. .... 08:31, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

VT: We're not talking about RotJ anymore. Even though Vader was Regent, he essentially gave up that position when he turned back to the light. Anyway, back on subject, I think it would be best to include in "Serving the Emperor" something like this: Vader was also Regent, which would make him the Emperor if Palpatine would ever die. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 12:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- We can say almost certainly that he wasn't Emperor in ROTJ. He turned his back on the dark side just moments before he killed Palpatine, thus voiding his regency. Darth Abeonis _{Sith Council} ^{(Sith Campaign)} 12:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Turning your back on your religious order doesn't mean you turn your back on your preferred form of government. Is there any source to say whether Vader would have liked to continue the Empire after the Emperor's death, or did his sacrifice also mean he wanted the Empire itself to be disbanded? VT-16 13:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Why would Vader want to continue the Empire? The Empire was controlled by the dark side. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:31, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
      - OK, lets look at this logically. Palpatine caused his fall to the darkside, (in-directly) killed Skywalker's wife by doing so. Kept Vader under his thumb for 25 years using Sith drugs and built him into a metal suit. He then tried to kill his Skywalker's own son. Why the hell would you want to follow in the footsteps of someone like that!?! Darth Abeonis _{Sith Council} ^{(Sith Campaign)} 21:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        By that thought process, one can say that America is currently aligned with the Moron Cartel, based upon it's leadership. Governements are not inherently good or evil. They are just influenced by whoever the hell is in control at the time. .... 22:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        I think the term you guys are looking for is Executor -not that it matters anymore now that this is degenerating to name-calling. Should I also mention Sate Pestage and the Imperial Council?Tocneppil 22:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Well...he had power over things other than the military at that time, as well. .... 22:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Although never officially the second -in-command of the Empire, it would appear an Executor has that level of command over the Empire. Seems pretty all-encompassing to me.Tocneppil 23:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        But this is a case when Palpatine was absent. He was first-in-command at the time. .... 23:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
        Vader was in charge of the military, and Pestage was in charge of the government. Regardless of what SotE said, would you put a military leader in charge of the government while you were absent, or someone who actually knew how to control the government? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
        So, do you currently rank higher in canon than SOTE, Jack? Face it, Vader was acting head of state in SOTE. Both for the military and the government. .... 02:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
        Okay, obviously nobody here having this discussion bothered to read the article on Executor beyond a quick glance, because you guys would have seen this: Excluding the position of Emperor, the position of Executor appears to have had more power and influence than all others, including Grand Moffs, Grand Admirals, Grand Generals, and the Grand Vizier.Tocneppil 09:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
        Thefourdot: I already said Vader was probably Regent. What I was trying to get across was this: Who would be the better choice? Someone with military experience and no government experience, or someone who had actually run the same government? I wasn't trying to just throw away the SotE reference. I was merely trying to apply common sense to the whole thing. And again, in case anyone starts arguing over something I said again, Vader was probably Regent. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 14:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
        And I was simply trying to point out the significance of Vader's title of Executor (Imperial rank) and where it stood in regards to chain-of-command.Tocneppil 20:14, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
        I wasn't even talking about that, Tocneppil. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 20:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
        That's true, about the rank of Executor, but SOTE is done in such a way that Vader is shown to have far more power than he would normally have. .... 20:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Interpretations

Since the Interpretations of the Prophecy contains a lot of OOU (And, with all of the vagueness and mystery surrounding it, as well it should) should we move it down into the Behind the Scenes section? -Solus 19:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Let's see if some could clean it up first. I don't think it should be in the "Behind the scenes" section. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 21:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- All right. Sounds good to me -Solus 22:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  - I'd try, but it needs a lot of work. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax ^{(Imperial Holovision)} 20px 22:12, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
    - I'm doing a grammar overhaul one section at a time. When I get to Interpretations I'll do my best to try and fix it up. -Solus 23:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)