Forum:TC:TCW non-notables - Chapter III

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Delete. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:02, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Unidentified droid commandos

• Unidentified BX-series droid commando 3 (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (presence only)
• Unidentified BX-series droid commando 5 (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (presence only)
• Unidentified BX-series droid commando 6 (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (presence only)

Delete

1. Winterz (talk) 14:55, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. Cade Calrayn 15:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:18, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
4. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 17:24, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
5. Trip391 (talk) 19:10, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
6. —MJ— ^{Jedi Council Chambers} 03:42, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
7. LIGHTNING12345678910 (talk) 21:26, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
8. Stake black ^msg 16:48, February 6, 2014 (UTC)
9. CC7567 ^(talk) 17:29, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
10. None really did anything beyond being generic enemies Imo. Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
11. I'm not sure what's worse. That someone created these articles or that people are actually voting to keep them. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:46, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
12. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 18:06, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Keep

1. Made all of these on the basis of doing something unique from the rest of the other droids: one attempted to remove Piell's eye, one shot a line that a clone trooper was using to descend thus killing him, and one had a unique death scene by R2. TheMasterMind (talk) 15:57, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. KEJ (talk) 17:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. They all have unique actions. ~Savage 11:55, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
   • Attacking a Jedi, shooting a rope and being destroyed, all these by a common looking droid in one frame of video... is this what you guys call unique? Can you even distinguish between which did what? Savage, at this point you should just try to picture how putting that article into status would be like. 90% of Battle of Lola Sayu context and 10% on how the droid commando shot a rope. With this said, I really disagree on these being remotely notable. Winterz (talk) 16:20, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
     • Obviously we have a difference of opinion. :) But I think having a unique action is enough to distinguish a "character" from a background cutout, and this character has an action. ~Savage 21:08, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
     • Well we can definitely distinguish them when they do the action that makes them stand out from the rest of the enemies around. Wasn't that the original intent, to have articles on characters doing stuff that makes them stand out from a huge crowd so you didn't have to make an article for each individual of that crowd? When was this changed to "doing something significant that makes him/her memorable"? These are minor characters we're talking about, you guys seem to be looking for stuff that only semi-important characters would do. The wook has a tone of articles on characters that did even less than these yet received a name...are those guys memorable? TheMasterMind (talk) 21:53, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
       • You'll have to start citing suitable examples to prove your point. Winterz (talk) 22:19, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
         • Some examples: Honka, Sidewa, Ror Ithh, etc. Nothing memorable about them, just background characters that did less than the articles that I made, but these guys received a name. So my point stands, when did this change from looking for things to distinguish the from background crowds to looking for significant actions that would make them memorable? TheMasterMind (talk) 13:10, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
           • Exactly what I was expecting. This only proves that you known nothing. If a character is named, then it's not our place to judge if its actions are notable or not, it's been named by canon and we must accept its existance regardless how unbearable it may be (example: Ahsoka Tano). Now as for background characters that are never directly referred to or named in any way, these are up to us to decide their fate here otherwise we'd have pages for every little detail that is featured on screen. So thank you and please inform yourself better on how things are done before going continuously against community-majority votes with arguments that are false. It's not about their actions at all, it's about their notability but these characters only have specific actions so that's the only thing we can use to determine their notability. Winterz (talk) 13:42, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
             • You must have missed the part where I said that I know these articles have to be there because the characters are named, the problem is that many of you people are now trying to find things that makes unidentified characters "memorable", and in most cases you want a significant action. I find this a bit ironic, and it's definitely a change from the old "policy" or view that these characters should have to do something that makes them stand out from a crowd so you don't have to make an article for every member of that crowd. And I don't really care about going against other members, this is a discussion page where everybody is entitled to an opinion about what they think is notable or not. I this case, I believe having unique actions (something distinct) definitely equal notability. TheMasterMind (talk) 23:47, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
4. Individually distinct (I think). Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was No consensus. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:51, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Unidentified Nightbrother Zabraks

• Unidentified Nightbrother Zabrak 3 (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect) (most of them look the same and they don't do anything but fighting and that alone doesn't make it notable as in article-worthy)
• Unidentified Nightbrother Zabrak 4 (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect) (most of them look the same and they don't do anything but fighting and that alone doesn't make it notable as in article-worthy)
• Unidentified Nightbrother Zabrak 5 (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect) (most of them look the same and they don't do anything but fighting and that alone doesn't make it notable as in article-worthy)
• Unidentified Nightbrother Zabrak 6 (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect) (most of them look the same and they don't do anything but fighting and that alone doesn't make it notable as in article-worthy)
• Unidentified Nightbrother Zabrak 7 (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect) (most of them look the same and they don't do anything but fighting and that alone doesn't make it notable as in article-worthy)

Delete

1. Winterz (talk) 14:55, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:18, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. Trip391 (talk) 19:10, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
4. Stake black ^msg 16:48, February 6, 2014 (UTC)
5. CC7567 ^(talk) 17:29, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
6. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 18:06, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Keep

1. All the Zabraks looked different, and you kept the New Mandalorian ministers a while back on the basis of this. Plus most are actually described by Ventress. TheMasterMind (talk) 15:52, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
   • It's one thing to list a couple of ministers (and therefore characters with important roles) that all look different from each other and it's another thing to list "all" the villagers of one specific location using only like two or three different models. Winterz (talk) 16:00, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
     • Well firstly these were not all the villagers, these were only the ones that Ventress selected. And secondly, they all look different, all have different color combinations, patterns and horns. Plus most were actually described by Ventress. I no longer know if you people are looking for notable stuff, or just deleting characters that aren't in some way incredibly important or even main... TheMasterMind (talk) 16:03, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. KEJ (talk) 17:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. I find these to be marginally notable, as each one either receives a unique description by Ventress or has unique actions in the fight. —MJ— _Comlink 03:45, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
4. Per MJ.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 04:09, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
5. I perfectly agree with that. LIGHTNING12345678910 (talk) 21:27, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
6. Per MJ. ~Savage 11:55, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
7. Per MJ. Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
8. Gonna have to agree. Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

This section is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in open discussion area or a new section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Delete. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:02, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Unidentified Felucian scouts

• Unidentified Felucian scout (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (received orders)
• Unidentified Felucian scout 2 (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (received orders)

Delete

1. Winterz (talk) 14:55, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. Cade Calrayn 15:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:18, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
4. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 17:34, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
5. Trip391 (talk) 19:10, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
6. —MJ— _{Council Chambers} 03:48, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
7. LIGHTNING12345678910 (talk) 21:28, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
8. Stake black ^msg 16:48, February 6, 2014 (UTC)
9. CC7567 ^(talk) 17:29, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
10. Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
11. Not distinguishable. Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
12. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 18:06, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Keep

Unidentified Wookiees soldiers

• Unidentified Wookiee Soldier 2 (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (fought, nothing else)
• Unidentified Wookiee Soldier 3 (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (fought, nothing else)

Delete

1. Winterz (talk) 14:55, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. Cade Calrayn 15:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 17:21, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
4. Trip391 (talk) 19:10, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
5. The articles can't even agree on which Wookiee did what. Prime evidence that they are essentially indistinguishable. —MJ— ^Holocomm 03:51, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
6. LIGHTNING12345678910 (talk) 21:28, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
7. Stake black ^msg 16:48, February 6, 2014 (UTC)
8. CC7567 ^(talk) 17:29, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
9. Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
10. Not distinguishable. Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
11. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 18:06, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Keep

Unidentified B1 battle droid

• Unidentified B1 battle droid 8 (Kamino) (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (fought and was destroyed..presumably)

Delete

1. Winterz (talk) 14:55, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. Cade Calrayn 15:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:18, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
4. Unidentified random guy who shot Luke Skywalker in the hand JangFett ^(Talk) 16:01, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
   • "a) Does the subject have unique dialogue or otherwise perform some unique action or role that makes it distinguishable?". You said this a while back at the ministers deletion. Killing a main character is not considered something unique? TheMasterMind (talk) 16:08, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
     • Shooting someone in the hand isn't unique. JangFett ^(Talk) 16:09, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
       • The droid shot him in the head and killed him...TheMasterMind (talk) 16:12, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
         • You're forgetting about the context of the scene. It wasn't 99 vs a droid alone, it was multiple clones vs multiple droids. JangFett ^(Talk) 16:23, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
           • MasterMind, you seem to think that the rough-draft outline of a notability policy that was suggested at one point is some kind of hard-and-fast rule, but it's not. Those were general ideas put forth for discussion that were never formally ratified, and the fact that we might be voting to delete something that could potentially meet those unofficial guidelines means absolutely nothing. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 13:54, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
             • The thing is that I had a draft of notability aspects made before the one that you're talking about came out, and I was following it when I created these articles, those were my personal criteria for <notable> things that made characters stand out. So no, I'm actually not following the example that you're talking about. TheMasterMind (talk) 13:36, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
5. Trip391 (talk) 19:10, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
6. —MJ— _{Council Chambers} 04:01, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
7. MJ's reasoning below convinced me.--Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 04:11, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
8. Gonna agree. LIGHTNING12345678910 (talk) 21:30, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
9. Stake black ^msg 16:48, February 6, 2014 (UTC)
10. CC7567 ^(talk) 17:29, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
11. Still just a generic battle droid. Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
12. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 13:54, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
13. Definitely. Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
14. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 18:06, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Keep

1. This particular droid killed 99. Can't get more plot-involved than that. TheMasterMind (talk) 15:54, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
   • Actually, yes it can. Appearances beyond one or two frames where it's shooting at people along with a thousand other droids that look exactly alike, that's not plot-involved. Regardless if his shots hit someone and/or even killed said subject, under those conditions that's still not notable. Winterz (talk) 15:59, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
     • So killing a major character doesn't make it notable or plot-involved? Very interesting. TheMasterMind (talk) 16:01, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
       • It's not about who he killed, it's about who killed 99, which was nothing but another irrelevant B1 droid. We're simply not gonna make an article for every one of those that manages to hit or kill a an important character. Winterz (talk) 16:06, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
         • Who he killed and who killed 99 are the same thing here. And you're not going to make an article because there aren't really that many droid shown killing main characters, at least not like in this case where the view focused on him killing 99 (even for a few seconds), instead of showing 99 getting gunned down from a distance. TheMasterMind (talk) 16:14, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
           • No, they're not the same thing. The "who he killed" theory says that because he killed a main character, he is automatically notable regardless of how indistinguishable the droid is from the masses. The basic problem with that theory is that notability is not inherited. Subject A being highly notable does not automatically make Subject B notable. Subject B must establish his own notability independent of Subject A. That's where the "who killed 99" theory takes over: "who killed 99" is a random battle droid that is indistinguishable from the masses. Therefore, since it is indistinguishable from the rest of the droids in that scene, then all of the droids in that scene, including the droid that killed 99, have the same level of notability, which is none at all. —MJ— _{Council Chambers} 04:01, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
             • Interesting reasoning, but I still think that subject B automatically becomes notable once he interacts in a meaningful manner with subject A. The droid is indistinguishable up unto the point where he does something unique from the rest of the group behind him, even if it is for a few frames. The camera even focuses on the droid killing him, it's not a distance shot where you'd have to look hard to find who delivered the killing shot.TheMasterMind (talk) 08:47, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
2. KEJ (talk) 17:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. ~Savage 11:57, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

Unidentified MagnaGuards

• Unidentified IG-100 MagnaGuard (Grievous's castle) (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (fought..so?)
• Unidentified IG-100 MagnaGuard 2 (Grievous's castle) (history - links - logs - delete - protect) (presence)

Delete

1. Winterz (talk) 14:55, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
2. Cade Calrayn 15:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
3. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:18, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
4. Exiled Jedi (Greetings) 17:20, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
5. Trip391 (talk) 19:10, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
6. —MJ— _{War Room} 04:03, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
7. LIGHTNING12345678910 (talk) 21:31, January 31, 2014 (UTC)
8. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:29, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
9. Stake black ^msg 16:48, February 6, 2014 (UTC)
10. CC7567 ^(talk) 17:29, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
11. Supreme Emperor (talk) 14:27, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
12. The fact that we can't even get a picture from the front emphatically demonstrates how undistinguishable these are. Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
13. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 18:06, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Keep