Forum:TC:Duel on Death Star II

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Merge and redirect to Battle of Endor. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:42, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

Duel on Death Star II (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect)

In a similar vein to the Battles of Naboo TC...

The duel between Vader and Luke on the second Death Star is currently covered by the article Duel on Death Star II. However, I find it ridiculous that it's a separate article and not just a part of the Battle of Endor. Similar to the Naboo battles, it's an integral part of the Battle of Endor; in fact, it's one of the main reasons that the space battle occurred in the first place. Thus, it should be merged and redirected into the Battle of Endor, and covered in a subsection. There isn't a canon name for the duel, which to me only solidifies the ludicrousness of having it separate.

Like with Naboo, here's evidence from sources supporting the merge:

  • The Essential Chronology and The New Essential Chronology refer to the entire battle, including the duel, as "The Battle of Endor."
  • The Official Star Wars Fact File 2 covers the entire battle, including the duel, under "The Battle of Endor"
  • A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Third Edition: "The Battle of Endor was the most decisive engagement of the Galactic Civil War. The Alliance to Restore the Republic and the Galactic Empire clashed near the forest moon of Endor in a battle that saw the deaths of both Emperor Palpatine and Lord Darth Vader." And under Palpatine's entry: "In fact, the massive trap the Emperor set up in the Endor system was designed specifically to lure young Skywalker into the open."
  • The Essential Atlas: "After Palpatine's death during the Battle of Endor, the Alliance briefly made its headquarters on the Forest Moon..."
  • Jedi vs. Sith's entry on Force lighting: "Years later, Emperor Palpatine unleashed this same power on Luke Skywalker during the Battle of Endor."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. I ("Alliance to Restore the Republic"): "The opportunity came at the Battle of Endor. Despite it being an Imperial trap, the Rebels persevered. The conflict ended with the death of Emperor Palpatine, the destruction of the second Death Star, the scattering of the Imperial fleet, and the end of the New Order's long reign of oppression."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. I ("Eclipse"): "Upon his return six years after his presumed death at the Battle of Endor, the cloned Emperor Pal patine ordered the construction of a new weapon of terror..."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. I ("Endor, Battle of"): "The most decisive engagement of the Galactic Civil War, the Battle of Endor marked the beginning of the end of the Empire and the birth of the New Republic. It saw the destruction of the second Death Star battle station and the deaths of Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine, who was later reborn as a clone."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. I ("Force, the"): "However, his heroic actions during the Battle of Endor led to Palpatine's death, leaving Luke Skywalker as the surviving Master of the Force."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. I ("Galactic Civil War"): "Many historians felt that the Galactic Civil War came to an end at the Battle of Endor, when Emperor Palpatine was believed to have been killed with the destruction of the second Death Star."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. II ("Jewett, Darvon"): "Following the fall of Emperor Palpatine at the Battle of Endor, he gave his support to the New Republic when the Imperial military forces in the sector retreated to Coruscant,"
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. II ("Kratas, Commander"): "Kratas had no contact with the outside galaxy, and was unaware of Emperor Palpatine's death at the Battle of Endor."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. II ("181st Imperial Fighter Group"): "The I8Ist served during the Battle of Endor, and fled when Captain Pellaeon ordered the retreat of the Imperial forces after the death of Emperor Palpatine."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. III ("Skywalker, Anakin"): "During the Battle of Endor, as Emperor Palpatine was trying to kill Luke, Anakin rose up and threw the Emperor down the Death Star's power shaft."
  • The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. III ("Umbaran"): "Because many Umbarans secured positions of power within the Empire, they feared some form of retaliation when Palpatine was killed at the Battle of Endor."
  • The Ultimate Visual Guide covers the entire affair under "Battle of Endor."
  • Heir to the Empire: "And Luke's part in the Battle of Endor is rather well-known." His part being fighting the Emperor.

Merge and redirect

  1. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 01:09, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  2. Makes so much sense. Supreme Emperor (talk) 01:10, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  3. Yes. Very yes. Mon Mothma specifically said they were going after Palpatine. Luke turned himself in to save the strike team so the Fleet could kill Palpatine. The battle and the duel are one event. Subsection the battle article, fine and dandy, but it's ONE ARTICLE. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 01:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  4. Splitting the articles is an artifact of early-era fannishness: makes more sense to merge. —Silly Dan (talk) 01:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  5. Thanks for listening to me :P JangFett (Talk) 01:32, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  6. Heh, per Culator. Corellian PremierJedi symbolThe Force will be with you always 01:36, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  7. Trip391 (talk) 03:12, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  8. The evidence. I'm overwhelmed, sir. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  9. Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 05:00, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  10. 501st dogma(talk) 20:38, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  11. MasterFredCommerce Guild(Whatever) 20:46, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  12. Winterz (talk) 20:51, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  13. Clone Commander Lee Talk 20:54, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  14. Undeniable, I've been wondering why these were separate for years. - Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 22:49, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  15. Green Tentacle (Talk) 12:26, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
  16. CC7567 (talk) 18:58, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
  17. No reason to keep them separate. 1358 (Talk) 11:37, April 19, 2014 (UTC)
  18. Master JonathanCouncil Chambers
    04:33 UTC SunApril 20, 2014

Keep

  1. Otherwise a bunch of other duels concurrent with, or part of, broader battles will have to be deleted. Find them yourself. KEJ (talk) 20:13, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
    • That's sort of the point. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 20:35, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
      • A point which I obviously disagree with. Anyway, I've voted and won't discuss this further. KEJ (talk) 20:43, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  2. I think we may have to keep the article as is. Although the duel is technically part of the Battle of Endor, there's also a lot of detail in that duel that would make the actual Battle of Endor extremely long. As it is with full details on the ground and space battles, plus mop-up operations and the aftermath section, the Battle of Endor article is already significantly long. Keeping it separate saves up on space, in other words. Probably the only alternative is to split up the ground and space battle portions into separate articles. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 21:55, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
    • The size of an article is never a factor when it comes to covering articles. That's why Darth Vader and Anakin are one article. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 21:57, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
      • Fine, although I nevertheless should point out that some people are complaining about the Anakin article's length (just look at some of the entries of the talk page of the Anakin article). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 21:59, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
  3. Distinguishable enough event. Just because it happened at the same time doesn't mean it is part of it. The space battle and battle on endor happened concurrently, but i think this is separate enough to warrant it's own article. Manoof (talk) 13:08, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Reminder to the closing admin that this article is linked from the Main Page, under "duels" at the top. That link will need to be changed if this is closed with a result of merge.
Master JonathanCouncil Chambers
05:28 UTC MonApril 21, 2014