Forum:TC:Doppelgänger of Dooku

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was No consensus. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:17, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Doppelgänger of Dooku (talk - history - links - logs - delete - protect)

We don't have pages for Luke's Dark Empire projection or Luke's Last Jedi projection, or any Fallanassi uses. Fact File calls it a doppelgänger and doesn't use the word "clone" literally.

--Goodmind (talk) 19:30, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Redirect to Dooku/Legends

1. Goodmind (talk) 19:30, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
2. DaRealDarkLord (talk) 19:33, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

   YakovChaimTzvi (he/him/his) (talk) 19:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

3. Rsand 30 (talk) 20:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
4. Fan26 (Talk) 02:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
5. RogueWhistler (talk) 15:35, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Keep

1. I don't see any reason to delete; it's a separate entity from the real Dooku and has notable dialogue. VergenceScatter (talk) 18:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
2. JediMasterMacaroni^(Talk) 18:28, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
3. Per Vergence LucaRoR ^(Talk) 18:30, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
4. Luke's projections are an entirely different story from a living clone of someone. Are we going to merge all clone troopers into Jango Fett since they're essentially doppelgangers of Jango. The projections are all as the name suggests, a projection, which is why they don't have pages, because it's just Luke Skywalker projecting himself through the Force. Erebus Chronus ^(Talk) 18:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
   • It's not really a clone --Goodmind (talk) 18:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
     • Then what is it? Erebus Chronus ^(Talk) 19:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
       • According to Abel G. Peña, it's the force power Dopplegänger: 7 Star Warsesque Essays: Part III. RogueWhistler (talk) 13:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
         • And Fact File supports this with the word "clone" not being used literally but as a synonym of "duplicate". Goodmind (talk) 14:33, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
5. Corellian Premier^MTFBWY 19:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
6. Per previous arguments supporting its keeping. SorcererSupreme21 (talk) 08:08, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
7. 1358 ^(Talk) 20:31, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
8. Notable enough to have a page, somewhat major character on a videogame, and with a decent dialogue.*Samonic (talk) 15:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
   • The contention isn't that the doppelgänger is non-notable, it's that it isn't a separate entity from Dooku himself. RogueWhistler (talk) 15:35, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
9. This was not an easy vote. See comments for reasoning. --NanoLuuke^{Cloning facility} 12:29, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
10. JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 13:54, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Comments

• Note: the redirect is to Dooku/Legends, as it should be — YakovChaimTzvi (he/him/his) (talk) 19:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
• Do we know if the "clone" acted of its own accord? Luke's projection WAS Luke acting. Did this do things while Dooku did other things? If so, I feel that might be notablity different. NBDani (talk) 19:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
  • It did not act on it's own accord, Dooku created it.--Goodmind (talk) 14:46, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
• The New Essential Chronology calls this character a clone, but in this unofficial article, the author of the original source (The Official Star Wars Fact File 116) makes it clear that it's a force Dopplegänger, like Luke's projection in Dark Empire. The NEC would presumably take precedence over Peña's statements, but what does the original Fact File say? RogueWhistler (talk) 13:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • "Dooku created a doppelgänger, a weaker dark side manifestation of himself, to detain Anakin and further lure him to the dark side." Goodmind (talk) 14:37, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Looking at the NEC again, the phrasing is an equivocal "may have been a clone doppelgänger". RogueWhistler (talk) 15:35, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
• I've had some doubt about what to vote, as I'm not seeing hard evidence that the doppelgänger is either a projection of Dooku, or a Force entity given form by Dooku to impersonate him and do his biding (if that's even possible...). The depiction in the game is quite unique and doesn't quite follow the known definition of doppelganger (according to the article, so it's up for debate still depending if the sources are more clear on that). And it would be an assumption (afaik) to say that Dooku is out there actively projecting and directing the doppelganger VS the doppelganger kind of doing its own thing based on Dooku's will. But let's not forget about the readers, and I fear that merging/redirecting to Dooku might not be ideal: the doppelgänger has been around for a while (months maybe?), and his essential to the plot of New Droid Army, so there quite a bit to learn about him (the article is a bit too thin on that front), which could be lost in Dooku's own article. It's another of those subjects that are in a grey area IMO, but trying to make it fit in a box would only being us assuming something which we can't be certain about. --NanoLuuke^{Cloning facility} 12:29, 24 January 2022 (UTC)