Forum:TC:Blue Milk Special

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Export to Fan Wiki and delete. Toprawa and Ralltiir 07:01, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Blue Milk Special (talk - history - links - logs)

I fail to see how this is notable. The only "evidence" of notability I can find in the article is the statement, "Costumed Members of the 501st Legion and the Rebel Legion have also enthusiastically helped out by donating their time to promoting the strip at various events." in the "Fans" section, but to me, that alone does not constitute the "widespread recognition within the Star Wars fan community" required by WP:NFP. Let's kill this. Master Jonathan ^{(Jedi Council Chambers)} 19:50, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Export to the fan wiki and delete

1. Master Jonathan ^{(Jedi Council Chambers)} 19:50, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
2. Export to the Fan Wiki and delete. OLIOSTER ^(talk) 19:52, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
   • Thanks. I forgot about the fan wiki. I've changed the delete option to reflect that. Master Jonathan ^{(Jedi Council Chambers)} 19:55, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
3. Clone Commander Lee ^Talk 18:11, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
4. NAYAYEN 19:55, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
5. I never even heard of it. Graestan^(Talk) 02:52, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
6. JangFett ^(Talk) 03:04, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
7. Oh, brother. — Fiolli 04:42, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
8. The comic itself is very well done though. Its a pity it doesn't yet have any official recognition. --Doctor Kermit^(Complain.) 04:57, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
9. 1358 ^(Talk) 05:33, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
10. Even though I'm an inclusionist, I have to draw a line somewhere. This is just not notable yet. MasterFred^(Whatever) 05:37, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
11. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:01, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
12. —Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:05, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
13. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 18:51, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
14. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 18:54, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
15. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 01:16, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
16. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 01:48, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
17. CC7567 ^(talk) 07:49, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
18. Nothing personal—it's a great series—but it just doesn't have the notability to set it apart from the many other funny SW webcomics out there. The Fan Wiki's the best place for it. Bella'Mia 08:04, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
19. Article about this TC makes TC notable if at all, not the subject. –Tm_T ^(Talk) 10:17, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Keep

This should still be a part of wookieepedia in some form or fashion. Its following within the SW community is growing. —Unsigned comment by 198.70.222.26 (talk • contribs) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Please log in to vote. -- Master Jonathan ^{(Jedi Council Chambers)} 02:50, November 18, 2010 (UTC))

1. I would like it kept there, it's a part of the community and I believe that the MTV coverage, no matter how it was derived is mainstream recognition. Saz. 09:17, November 20, 2010 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Please see our voting policy before attempting to vote. -- OLIOSTER ^(talk) 09:19, November 20, 2010 (UTC))

Discussion

Below is an excerpt from an email from Rod Hannah, one of the two creators of BMS.

"We've been given shout outs by Comic News Insider on their podcast, we've been covered by The Geeks of Doom, [...] and we routinely get 2500 unique visitors per day and 10,000+ page hits, peaking at 30,000! We have over a thousand fans on FaceBook and over 500 on Twitter. We've attended cons and been represented by 501st costumers at CV."

Does any of this new information justify the continuation of this article's existence on Wookieepedia? –– Darth Shohet –– 03:27, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

• It's more appropriate in the fan wiki. JangFett ^(Talk) 04:10, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, where do we draw the line between what does or does not constitute widespread recognition? The webcomic was just recently promoted/represented by multiple members of the most notable international Star Wars fan organization at an official Star Wars convention. Just curious, how many hits does Wookieepedia get daily? –– Darth Shohet –– 04:32, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
    • What Wookieepedia gets is really not the point. We have notability requirements, even if there are holes, vague spots, etc. Based upon those weak requirements alone, this article could have been justifiably speedied, in my opinion. As I've said before, we need to really be looking at drawing a hard line somewhere—anywhere, for that matter. A de facto line drawn from TCs is really not acceptable. I agree that this article should likely be deleted based upon what we do know in our NFP requirements, but arguments of vagueness that always pop up even in "easy" cases like this is getting old. — Fiolli 04:42, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
      • If someone had slapped {{delete}} on it I would have given them the benefit of the doubt. Graestan^(Talk) 04:48, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Here's something new: there's an article about BMS on MTV.com. If this isn't widespread recognition, then I don't know what is. –– Darth Shohet –– 01:15, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

• That link didn't work. Here is a working link. - Brandon Rhea ^(talk) 01:24, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
• I do not wish to remove it from the TC because I enjoy the webcomic. I believe that any work by Star Wars fans that has received considerable recognition of some sort from the community at large really should have an equal shot at getting its own article here alongside others. And thanks Brandon. –– Darth Shohet –– 01:27, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • While that story mentions the comic, it is primarily about this very discussion, so no, it doesn't establish notability. If the article was simply a "feature" on the comic and not a campaign to try to save it from deletion here though, it might qualify as mainstream media recognition. Master Jonathan ^{(Jedi Council Chambers)} 01:41, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • A mention on a single blog that most of us here have probably never visited or heard of does not constitute mainstream recognition or fan recognition. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 01:48, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • In response to Master Jonathan, why would they even promote this BMS if they didn't actually think it was a quality piece of work? FYI, I was fully aware of the page's content when I posted the link. And in response to Darth Culator, this is the official MTV website; how much more mainstream can you get (excluding recognition from someone at LFL or something of the sort)? I am obviously not an admin nor am I a heavily involved user. I assume that you are more knowledgeable than I am regarding this topic and will therefore make informed choices, which I will respect. I will say no more, unless I see any points that are clearly unsupported. –– Darth Shohet –– 02:09, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm at a loss to think of any part of the Star Wars fan community that is 'mainstream'. I don't see why sites like Rebelscum.com should have an article and not BMS. --goofdoggs@gmail.com 02:20, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • I can't help but feel that this is more a case of the moderators digging their heels in at a decision they have already made more than actually listening to the arguments against, especially fact that MTV, a rather large broadcasting company is not considered to be mainstream by the Wookieepedia moderator staff, I'm inclined to disagree on that point. Just the fact that this discussion to delete the webcomic has caused the media to recognise the comic still doesn't change the fact that the comic has been recognsied by MTV. Look, it's obvious that this argument is going nowhere as "Master" Jonathan seems determined to be rid of the entry and there's no point in arguing over a fan built wiki's opinion. Saz. 09:15, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
      • To be frank, one article in an obscure part of MTV does not count as "significant coverage". NAYAYEN 10:17, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
      • For the record, Master Jonathan is not a "moderator" and at this point Wookieepedia "staff" constitutes less than one third of the votes for deletion, and your usage of that terminology pretty well proves your lack of qualification to participate in any matter relevant to the Wookieepedia community. An article on a blog does not constitute "media" recognition, and the bloggers at MTV should have done a minimal amount of research on our various voting policies before going vote-farming. If the majority of qualified members of the community want an article gone, then it's gone. If some of those members are voting as a response to an ill-advised attempt by outsiders to disrupt Wookieepedia, whose fault is that? -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 13:05, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Just as an FYI, the article has been exported to Fanpedia, and can be found here. - Brandon Rhea ^(talk) 00:18, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

• Well I am surprised this drew this much attention. Should note people are Twittering the link too. -- Riffsyphon1024 05:49, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • The creators have also posted about this on their Facebook page. It's gotten some....interesting replies. OLIOSTER ^(talk) 06:15, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
    • Wow, this is pathetic. Do they really not have anything better to do with their time? Wookieepedia has policies. We have to follow them with no exceptions or else chaos will become the norm. We are a successful wiki because we follow policy and are organized. This fan project is not notable enough yet per our notability policy for fan projects. I have nothing against these people. If their project ever becomes more notable, I'm sure many of us would be glad to see the article recreated. Geez people, it's not that big of a deal. Stay out of WookieeAffairs. MasterFred^(Whatever) 07:29, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
      • I don't think we should encourage people to stay out of Wookiee "affairs" --- this is an open community that anyone is welcome to join, after all. Familiarize yourselves with our policies before voting on anything is probably better advice. Menkooroo 07:36, November 22, 2010 (UTC)