Forum:SH:The Force Awakens Spoilers

This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. Advanced Jedi Training Droid 6 ^{(Talk to my master)} 06:00, July 14, 2015 (UTC)

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So I was thinking that the current spoiler template is very generic. It's a bit easy to ignore and doesn't really do much to differentiate between certain stuff. Might a customized template for anything related to The Force Awakens be desirable? A more bold, obvious template that would clearly indicate to people that the page they're looking at is related to The Force Awakens, for those that just don't want to know anything about the new movie before it comes out if at all possible, but don't really care about other spoilers? And if it's something that would need a Consensus Track, we can do that. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:14, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with this. The standard generic spoiler template isn't going to cut it. Many people who will read spoilers for books, comics, etc. want to stay spoiler-free for TFA, and out of courtesy we ought to have something that is clearly and obviously different, preferably with the TFA title card so it's immediately clear. —MJ— ^{Jedi Council Chambers} 04:47, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, a capital idea. People tend to be angry when anything from TFA is spoiled. - AV-6R7^{User talk:AV-6R7} 04:54, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 05:42, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Agree Manoof (talk) 06:22, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

OK, here's a proposed template:

User:Master Jonathan/meh

A few notes:

• The caption quote was lifted from here. I'm not really thrilled with it, so I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has one.
• The "leave this page now" link is perhaps not necessary, but serves as a convenient quick exit for those who desire it. The Main Page was chosen as the target since in theory it should never contain spoilers; spoilers are already blacklisted from QOTD and DYK, are highly unlikely to appear in FAs or GAs due to the dearth of canon status articles, and the news section should never have anything not officially released by Lucasfilm (and if you want to avoid even that, good luck doing so without getting off the internet completely).
• The word "major" is not included in front of "spoilers", since to the people that care, spoilers are spoilers no matter how big or small. Thus this is for even the smallest details.
• Not included in this demo is a special category specifically for articles with The Force Awakens spoilers.

Let me know what you think. As this would need to be referenced from Wookieepedia:Spoilers, which is a policy, a CT would be necessary for implementation. —MJ— ^{Training Room} 07:22, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I'm disappointed you missed the obvious "There has been an awakening." for the quote :P - Sir Cavalier of One^{(Squadron channel)} 09:09, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking too, and I was also thinking of theming the template after Kylo Ren, given that the current spoiler template uses Vader, but I suppose having him in there would itself be a spoiler. Oh, and my thought was to also apply it to anything Journey to the Force Awakens related that gave away something that would tie into the film, so perhaps "Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens or associated media." ProfessorTofty (talk) 14:08, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

That template looks really bad in the Wikia skin and looks like it was designed with Monobook in mind, which is of no help to 99.9999% of Wookieepedia. The colors don't blend together very well either. I've created a slimmer version with different colors that would still get the job done:

- Brandon Rhea^(talk) 14:27, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I like it. Looks pretty snazzy. ProfessorTofty (talk) 15:42, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

White text on black has always hurt my eyes reading it, so I'd prefer the previous colour scheme or something that doesn't make my eyes "burn." - Sir Cavalier of One^{(Squadron channel)} 16:02, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

The problem with that color scheme is that it, quite frankly (and no offense intended to Jonathan), looks really bad. It doesn't work well design-wise. If there are other colors that can work, then sure, but otherwise I think the image in question lends itself to a black background pretty well. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 16:09, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps another color against the black? I really like the black with the stars and the image also. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:10, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Sure, another colour scheme may work, but white on black has never been great for me, and I know other people have similar problems. The other consideration is link colour against the black. The blue link colour is fine, but when it turns purple to indicate a visited link, it almost blends into the black background (this is on both oasis and monobook by the way). - Sir Cavalier of One^{(Squadron channel)}

Links still turn purple on your browser? I haven't seen a purple link in ages. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:27, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Links only turn purple in Monobook. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 18:24, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the blue (and purple, but that's Monobook) looks terrible on the black to me, but the white is appropriately visible. I swapped out the white text for gold text (the same color as the Star Wars logo) to mitigate the complaints about the white while still maintaining high visibility. If it's possible to change the link colors, I'd suggest white to differentiate them as links, give them higher visibility, and still keep them thematic. ^Jorrel_Fraajic 18:35, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I had forgotten that my signature actually used a method (albeit outdated, though it can be fixed if officialized) to change link colors. I've rectified the issue. ^Jorrel_Fraajic 18:39, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Looks good to me, Jorrel. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 18:50, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I like it too. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:56, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I believe this will suit our purposes nicely. - AV-6R7^{User talk:AV-6R7} 19:04, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Out of all the ones that have been suggested so far, I'd have to go with this as my favorite. Cevan (talk) 20:34, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

While I do desire to see a separate template for TFA, I will not vote for another black template. {{Spoiler}} is already black, and the point is to distinguish from that template, not to copy its primary color. This template needs to be a different color, and preferably a unique color not used by any other template. Another black template is a complete non-starter with me. —MJ— ^Holocomm 19:42, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

How about this as a solution to the problem? A snazzy shade of gray:

Alternatively, if no other solution can be worked out, I propose this as a final solution:

ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:19, April 21, 2015 (UTC) (With tongue firmly in cheek on that last)

Discounting the joking one, it still doesn't look very good. The problem is the image - no other color really works well. If you don't want a black template (which is a weird demand, but ok), then there needs to be a different image from The Force Awakens in there. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 20:33, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

The black template looks great. I see no issue with that, and that's the least spoilery image we've got. Cade Calrayn 20:36, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

What if there were a way to do this:

The full black background is maintained on the image, but the text is against the gray. ProfessorTofty (talk) 20:54, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

It's better, but from a design perspective, black is really all that works well and looks sleek. Because it blends well together. If we're averse to black - which, in fairness, only one person has objected to, so let's not blow this out of proportion - then we need a different image. I'll play around with some things, because I don't think this groupthink is the best way to work this out. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 21:03, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Exactly how does the title card force us to use a black template? On the contrary, the contrast of colors is a GOOD thing here. The objective is not to look "pretty" or "sleek"; the objective is to shove this banner into the reader's face and make it the very first thing their eyes land on when the page comes up, because in many cases there will be spoilers "above the fold"; i.e. visible without scrolling down, and if their eyes land on those before the template, then the template is pointless. Colors like gray that are muted and/or blend with the image don't do that. Bright and contrasting colors do. —MJ— _{War Room} 21:38, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

There should also be a good design. Making it clear that it's about spoilers is good. Looking amateurish to millions of people is not. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 21:51, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think the gray looks sleek too and to my eye, having it split like that by having the black on side and the gray on the other draws my eye. Personally, I think that design works well. Master Jonathan, you don't like the gray one either? ProfessorTofty (talk) 22:16, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I enjoy the newest suggestion. - AV-6R7^{User talk:AV-6R7} 22:18, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Tofty: No. Too muted and too similar to the existing generic spoiler tag. We need bright colors and sharp contrast. In other words, the image should not be blending in to the background, so that attention is immediately called to it. And I fail to see how anything about my design is "amateurish". On the contrary, the colors in that version were chosen to match the main colors seen in the title card, only with the primary and secondary colors swapped for purposes of contrast and attention-grabbing. —MJ— _{Council Chambers} 22:26, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

It's giant, bulky, and looks bad from a design/color perspective. We're going around in circles at this point so I'm going to play around with some other designs later. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 22:35, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

I look forward to them. And if nothing else works, remember, there is always option pink. ProfessorTofty (talk) 23:02, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, option pink is actually a pretty good idea. Draws the eye, stands out, unique colour, what could go wrong? Manoof (talk) 05:55, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

I myself prefer Jorrel's black template. It just looks better even though we want to differentiate it from the Major Spoiler template. -- Riffsyphon1024 04:12, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Someone with administrative privileges may want to excavate our long-deleted Template:Ep3spoiler and see if there's anything useful to be gleaned from it. jSarek (talk) 06:54, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see the reason why we need to differentiate the TFA spoiler from the regular one. Yes, they're both black, but they're essentially serving the exact same purpose - warning people about spoilers. The logo and the change in coloration should be an adequate difference. Heck, I'd even say to use both the TFA spoiler and the regular spoiler templates simultaneously to drive the point home even more. ^Jorrel_Fraajic 08:39, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Well, two templates is a bit much. That said, I do like yours. Just make the image smaller (same size as the one in my version) so it works better for readers, and I think it's good to go. - Brandon Rhea^(talk) 10:14, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I don't want a spoiler for The Force Awakens. Knowing that the subject is in The Force Awakens is a spoiler in itself. For example, if Palpatine or Vader somehow make an appearance in TFA, people won't want to know about that beforehand. But if we create a TFA-specific spoiler template, then when people visit Vader's page or Palpatine's page, they will see "SPOILER: THE FORCE AWAKENS". They will say, "What?! Palpatine is in The Force Awakens!? I didn't want know that!! Maybe I should just stay off Wookieepedia until I see the movie." This can defeat the purpose of warning people of a spoiler. Whereas if you simply use the Majorspoiler template without indicating that the spoiler is for TFA, you can avoid giving away these kinds of spoilers.--Richterbelmont10 ^{(come in R2!)} 17:36, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

What if we only applied to material that was exclusive to the new movie? That way, we just distinguish that new stuff that is coming out, as opposed to something like a Nakari Kelen that would still be new material, but not something from The Force Awakens. ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:18, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

That's an excellent idea.--Richterbelmont10 ^{(come in R2!)} 00:27, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

Okay, I don't want to see this die. Pretty much all of us seemed to agree that the basic idea is sound, and I think the previous suggestion regarding only applying it to entirely new material is agreeable. Barring one objector, we also seem to have a pretty good choice for the template itself, although it needed tweaking in making the image smaller. Jorrel, are you still reading, and if so, could you do that? And if Jorrel isn't reading, would somebody else who's good with graphic manipulation be willing to make that tweak? ProfessorTofty (talk) 04:04, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

See below:

- Brandon Rhea^(talk) 05:36, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

I say we go with the one immediately above, it looks good! Nivlacanator^(talk) 06:55, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

Works for me! Well, we've discussed this to death. Time to go ahead and do a Consensus Track? ProfessorTofty (talk) 03:26, May 10, 2015 (UTC)

Is there even need for a CT? It's just a template; no change in real policy. To avoid instruction creep I say just create it. Fe Nite (talk) 03:56, May 11, 2015 (UTC)

Yes; the spoiler policy specifies what templates are to be used to mark spoilers. That policy would need to be amended to reference the new template, hence a CT is needed. —MJ— _{Council Chambers} 04:36, May 11, 2015 (UTC)

Ah I see. Then I say CT it. There is no reason this shouldn't be at least voted on. Fe Nite (talk) 03:41, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

It's done. CT is now up. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:01, May 15, 2015 (UTC)